The Logic of Pro Logic

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Rick Blaine, Apr 29, 2004.

  1. Rick Blaine

    Rick Blaine Stunt Coordinator

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    This is sort of a polling informational thread that asks a basic Home Theater audio question...

    Does anybody really run DVD's thru a ProLogic System anymore?

    It seems to me most anyone with the interest in audio to hookup a ProLogic system would have quickly moved to DD 5.1. The cost of updating is minimal, Amp and Sub, not much work in setup, and audio quality is a vast improvement.
    So my theory is 99.9 percent of the population are listening in 5.1 or Stereo. ProLogic is relegated to the dust.

    Any thoughts or comments on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

    Rick
     
  2. JohnSmith

    JohnSmith Supporting Actor

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    Rubbish. Many films do sound better in Pro-Logic, rather than a poor quality 5.1 mix. And of course older films only have Dolby Surround. I have a few films in Mono too. If these are remixed to DD 5.1 some people would put there noise up ;-)

    I've watched many films with a messed up 5.1 sound track; for these I switch to the mono or Pro-Logic/Dolby Surround audio track instead.

    In fact with the quality of processing, amps & speakers I would bet my Pro-Logic (with Logic 7) will sound alot better than quite a few people's systems listening to Dolby Digital 5.1 system/soundtracks! :-D

    AV amps will have Pro-Logic processing in the future- just updated versions of it (II, IIx etc). They need to keep it on-board for older material/Dolby Surround audio tracks.

    And not forgetting latin or secondary sound tracks are sometimes just in 2ch (Dolby Surround too) compared to English tracks which are in 5.1
     
  3. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Like John indicated, the upgrades for Pro Logic being the II and IIx flavors, have definately extended the life of Pro Logic.

    I find that I use Pro Logic IIx as much with my music, or actually even more, than I do straight 2-channel listening. Whether one likes, or even cares for Pro Logic, PL II and PL IIx, it's still a nice-to-have feature included with a receiver purchase.
     
  4. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

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    For me again as I mention, it's Logic 7 for me on stereo and surround sources. Some movies sound better in surround than in a poor 5.1 mix as JohnSmith said. For example, Transformers: The Movie, on the DVD it's 5.1 but the mix is so poor when I listen to in surround, I get a better response especially in the surrounds.
     
  5. ClintS

    ClintS Stunt Coordinator

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    I use a pro-logic receiver in my bedroom setup, it sounds great. The back channels arent always as distinct but in some ways thats a good thing they tend to blend more. Also the majority of TV programing is in Pro-logic so I dont think its going anywhere anytime soon.
     
  6. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

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    I use it for television
     
  7. GordonL

    GordonL Supporting Actor

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    Yup, analog OTA is still DPL.
     
  8. Greg-ST

    Greg-ST Stunt Coordinator

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    I rarely use PLII or PL with anything. It simply doesn't sound that great IMO. I much prefer stereo for TV, music, and VHS.
     
  9. NickGL

    NickGL Agent

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    i use PLII for TV and video from the computer, that's about it

    for some reason i can't stand surround modes for stereo music, it never compares with source direct

    i've given fair trial to PLII, circle surround, and 6.1 stereo, but i can't stand those for 2 channel music

    true multichannel music is a different story, i absolutely love my music DVDs and DVDAs
     
  10. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    I mainly use ProLogic II for TV when the show supports surround, and of course for Video Games, as many systems do not support full on DD or DTS, and many games do come designed specifically for DPL II.
     
  11. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    I'm sure no one will agree with me here but.....I hate Dolby Digital receivers.
    At least I've hated the two I've had.

    Neither one produced (IMO) high enough levels of sound. Had to crank the damn things way, way past 70 (or so) just to get an "average" level of sound, which would equal about a "25" on my older Pro-Logic receiver. That's just not right.

    Never could figure out why I needed to crank the volume to near "max." just to get a level equal to "mid-range" on a Pro-Logic unit.

    Weird. And aggravating. Anyone else experience a "too low volume level" with DD receivers?
     
  12. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    David,

    You've brought up a good point. I wonder if the lower volumes experienced with Dolby Digital is a result of the compression used?

    On a related note, when I've finished watching a movie and then decide to listen to some music, I'm usually "blasted" because the volume is set to a higher position than where I'd normally listen to my music.
     
  13. Howard_You

    Howard_You Stunt Coordinator

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    David, I *think* I know what you mean. If you're talking movies then the conventional explaination is that older VHS movies were typically recorded way too high. DVDs are recorded 'correctly' which results is lower volume in 'dialogue' scenes, but much louder volume during dynamic scenes.

    If you're talking CD music, then I'm not sure. Do you notice any difference between digital and analog inputs on your DD receiver as far as volume level goes? It may just be that the volume scale on DD receivers are more linear than pro-logic receivers.

    If you are still unhappy, I recommend saving up some money for a receiver with some serious horsepower such as the Carver c1000a.
     
  14. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    Right. I understand that.
    But that doesn't explain why, when I'd play the very same DVD movie routed through a DD receiver, I'd have to crank the volume knob well past 60% of max. to reach the same volume level I can achieve with an analog Pro-Logic receiver set much lower.

    Or -- Is it as Wayne suggests (above)--regarding the "Digital" nature of the volume vs. analog routing??
     
  15. Roger Dressler

    Roger Dressler Stunt Coordinator

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    Basically, the more peak headroom preserved in the mix, the lower the average loudness. Movies in Dolby Digital allow for more headroom than any other genre or format. Some of them use it all.
     
  16. Howard_You

    Howard_You Stunt Coordinator

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    David, when you route the DVD movie through your DD receiver are you using a digital connection or the 5.1 analog inputs? I know with my DVD player the analog outputs are louder than the digital outputs. You might want to try the analog outputs from your DVD player to be sure that the DD receiver is getting the same input feed as the pro-logic receiver, if the DD is still lower then it must just be the volume control.

    I'm not sure what effect the DD compression had but I know when I used to copy music to cassette tapes from LPs that I NEVER used Dolby NR, I found it just killed the highs.
     
  17. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    Analog.
    But I no longer have the two DD receivers that I tried out. Hated them both. Even VHS tapes had to be set at near "max." levels to get just "normal" listening levels...which seemed very curious to me.
     
  18. Howard_You

    Howard_You Stunt Coordinator

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    David, that is very odd - I don't know anyone who's had that experience. Certainly I don't have to crank my DD receiver (NAD T742) to get decent listening levels (about -15dB to -10dB on the -60dB to +18db scale) which are similar to say the 11 o'clock position on my older pro-logic receiver (HK AVR30). I consider 0dB to be roughly equivalent to the 12 o'clock position. Both are rated at 60wpc/8ohm.

    Do you have low-impedence or low-efficiency speakers?
     
  19. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Howard, and I thought I was the only one who didn't use Dolby "B" or even "C" when copying my albums to tapes.

    Shhhhhh ... I didn't mean to say it like that - the RIAA might be reading. Ooops. :roll; :roll;
     

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