The Last of Us - Season 2 (1 Viewer)

[WillG]

The writer in that article who played the game did not even like the second game, so I can't take anything he says seriously. He was predisposed to dislike this season before it even started. Reading between the lines, it sounds like he wanted the second game just to be another Joel/Ellie buddy adventure. I completely disagree because I love the second game and think it's one of the best stories I've ever played.

I've discussed my issues with this season which boil down to they decided to fundamentally change character motivations and revealed Abby's motives which hurts the narrative. After thinking about it some more, I am convinced that Niel and Craig were nervous about the backlash the game received from a "certain group" of gamers, so they decided to try and make both Ellie and Abby more sympathetic from the start. It robbed us of the truly dark areas this games takes us and ruin the narrative structure.

If you are going to reveal Abby's motives in episode 1/2 then there is no real reason to stick with the games narrative structure. They should have just told it linearly, switching between each character. Maybe have an Ellie episode, then an Abby episode, Eliie episode etc.

just curious, when you say in quotes “certain gamers” what do you mean by that?

 

[Chris Will]

The immature, childish gamers who just whine about everything in the game. From Joel's death, to the dark storyline, to the sexual orientation of a number of characters, and the look of buff Abby. If you use Reddit, venture to r/TheLastOfUs2, and it will not take you long to see. On second thought, don't. It's a cesspool of hate and bigotry.

 

[WillG]

The immature, childish gamers who just whine about everything in the game. From Joel's death, to the dark storyline, to the sexual orientation of a number of characters, and the look of buff Abby. If you use Reddit, venture to r/TheLastOfUs2, and it will not take you long to see. On second thought, don't. It's a cesspool of hate and bigotry.

Well sure those types of gamers exist but I don’t they encompass everyone who didn’t like some of the game’s narrative choices. What’s wrong with not liking the decision to kill off Joel. For many people that was akin to say Alien 3 killing off Newt and Hicks right at the beginning. Being upset over that doesn’t make a person one of “those people”

 

[Ken Chan]

Part 1 is certainly easier to like. Heartwarming story, mostly linear. However, there is that faction that goes beyond understanding Joel's sympathetic desire to save his surrogate daughter, turning his death spree into a laudable action; demonizing Abby's father for even trying.

I get the desire to want the sequel game to be more adventures of the gruff alpha male and his endearingly foul-mouthed and super-stabby sidekick. Yes, Naughty Dog implied in early previews that there would be more Joel; they lied to you to preserve the plot twist (which got blown a little early and inaccurately). Given a chance to do another round, they decided not to tread the same path and to do something quite different in the game. They preserved that in the show.

HBO was never going to do the twenty-five episodes people seem to want to adapt Part 2 in a single season. Then the question was whether to keep the very obvious break in the existing story. They made some concessions to the long break between seasons, most notably to move the porch conversation from the very end of the game to the end-ish of Ellie's half.

If you are going to reveal Abby's motives in episode 1/2 then there is no real reason to stick with the games narrative structure. They should have just told it linearly, switching between each character. Maybe have an Ellie episode, then an Abby episode, Eliie episode etc.

That would blunt the momentum of both sides. If you want to spoon-feed the audience and make it linear, given that some parts happen simultaneously, who would go first? In the game, by the time Abby's father is revealed, you might have guessed that it was related to Joel's actions in the first game. Revealing that alone early doesn't change that much. The second half is still: given what little you know of Abby is -- now only mostly -- entirely negative, can the story... make her a compelling character (to put it vaguely).

In the game, Ellie never finds out why Abby killed Joel, never finds out that the doctor was her father.

For that first part, at gunpoint, Ellie says (and repeats in the show), "I know why you killed Joel. He did what he did to save me." In the show, we heard what Nora told her. In the game, it's less clear what exactly she learned from Nora about that, but as she is heading out with Jesse (before the comic convention?), he asks if she found out why, and she lies a bit and says that yes, Joel was a smuggler and there was a disagreement about "goods". At that point, the game is still hiding Abby's exact relationship for the reveal later.

“Abby Is the Hero”: To the Dismay of 'The Last of Us' Game and Show Fans, the Creator Doubles Down on Controversial Choices Ahead of Season 3

That title is clickbait a crock of shit. The quote in the article is "Abby is the hero of her story." No duh. There's nothing in that article that anyone familiar with the game and not blinded by rage wouldn't acknowledge.

kind of a plot hole because in the show, he knows Abby’s motivation where as in the game he does not. Why didn’t Joel even attempt to explain his actions at the hospital. He just says nothing.

What is there to say? Joel owns it; he "would do it all over again". His decision caught up with him. Pleading would be unbecoming -- real beta energy.

What’s wrong with not liking the decision to kill off Joel. For many people that was akin to say Alien 3 killing off Newt and Hicks right at the beginning.

You're not supposed to like it. The difference is that you spend the whole movie invested in Newt and Hicks escaping, and then they get spontaneously killed off primarily so the writers don't have to deal with them in the plot (Is that what happens? I never watched it again), and maybe to demonstrate edgy nihilism. In contrast, Joel's death is a direct consequence of his choices in the last part.

It is actually supposed to enrage you. If we're talking about the real-world reaction of viewers and Pedro fans in particular, yeah people might choose to stop watching. Can the show pull off the rest of it? Maybe an overly negative reaction causes the morons that run the network to get cold feet and cut the show short. That might be why the "4 seasons" talk has cooled. But at least the show is true to the source material, and not playing it safe.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Another take on the merits of the prorgam and its adaptation from a game series...

Did The Big Death In Last of Us Season 2 Ultimately Deliver A Killing Blow To the Series As A Whole? - IGN

The Last of Us Season 2 strayed from canon in some ways and remain painstakingly faithful in others, but did a couple of irreversible decisions kill the show's momentum for good?

www.ign.com

Personally, I think the article's observations regarding audience members who have not played the games (such as yours truly) are valid.

- Walter.

 

[DaveF]

Been reading recap reviews of the season. I still like the show. But I can’t find fault in the critiques.

I'd say that the structural problems of the show are mostly derived from the game's decision to transition from "buddy adventure" to "revenge saga" as we've discussed ad nauseam. But a lot of the nitty-gritty problems of this season—stuff like pacing, flow, character development, etc.—actually come off a little worse because of decisions to add or change things for the show.

After season 1, I was hopeful that some light-touch changes could help redeem a game that I did not enjoy much. Instead, I think they somehow made it worse.

The problem with The Last of Us season 2 is that it’s too faithful an adaptation

A short second season ends with a literal bang and a figurative whimper.

arstechnica.com

EDIT: I see this was already shared. It’s been a long week I’m just now catching up on articles and the forum this Saturday morning

 

[DaveF]

It is actually supposed to enrage you. If we're talking about the real-world reaction of viewers and Pedro fans in particular, yeah people might choose to stop watching. Can the show pull off the rest of it? Maybe an overly negative reaction causes the morons that run the network to get cold feet and cut the show short. That might be why the "4 seasons" talk has cooled. But at least the show is true to the source material, and not playing it safe.

When did “they” start talking about 4 seasons?

Back in TLOU Season 1, i was expecting only two seasons, one for each game, as demonstrated doable by the first season / game. That was the conventional wisdom, IIRC. Maybe it was just unfounded assumptions.

Now apparently it’s take the second game and stretch it into 3 seasons but the seasons are super duper short and separated by two or three years each still?

Someone make it make sense.

 

[Tino]

The Last Of Us Part 2 game was more than twice the length of the first game. So,theoretically they can stretch the entire series to 4 seasons if they want. Three
would probably be ideal.

 

[WillG]

When did “they” start talking about 4 seasons?

Back in TLOU Season 1, i was expecting only two seasons, one for each game, as demonstrated doable by the first season / game. That was the conventional wisdom, IIRC. Maybe it was just unfounded assumptions.

Now apparently it’s take the second game and stretch it into 3 seasons but the seasons are super duper short and separated by two or three years each still?

Someone make it make sense.

I think it’s more that people are feeling “how are they going to fit the rest of the story into only one more (presumably 7 episode) season”

 

[Chris Will]

When did “they” start talking about 4 seasons?

Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann have been hinting at it for a while now:

'The Last of Us' 'may require season 4,' creators tease

HBO's 'The Last of Us' 'may require season 4,' series creators Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann say. 'I don’t see how we could tell the story that remains after season 2 is complete in one more season.'

ew.com

“There’s No Way to Complete This Narrative in a Third Season”: ‘The Last of Us’ Showrunner Reveals How Long He Thinks the Series Will Run

“There are actors that you want to take home, hug them, give them soup, and make them okay,” says Craig Mazin about Pedro Pascal.

collider.com

I don't get it. They told Ellie's Seattle days in 3 episodes, but will need 2 seasons for Abby's? Both halves of the game are roughly 12 hours each. I think Abby's days could be told in 6 episodes, 2 per day (I wish they had done this with Ellie's days, give more time for the emotional weight to build). Then, 3 episodes for the game's ending. A single 9-episode season 3 should be plenty IMO. I just don't think they need an entire 4th season, with another 2-year wait, to finish this story.

 

[Joe Wong]

Follows the trend of trying to eke out or prolong content when the original IP’s story is done (for now).

We saw it in the Harry Potter films, Hunger Games, The Hobbit, etc.

 

[DaveF]

It's conservatism up front: fear the adaptation will fail, the first game is given nine episodes to tell the complete story. Then when it does succeed, they look to cash in. But when there's only one more game they have to distort its production in strange ways. Like two or three ultra short seasons, giving more time to the weaker story than they did to the stronger first game.

If it were expanded to a 14 episode single season, I'd understand. And if HBO then ordered more seasons that required new stories to be developed, I'd also understand that (see also Shogun and Dark Matter).

But the plan as-is is bizarre. It's both trying to cash in on a smash hit but also fearful TV production by going for tiny little seasons to minimize the loss if they do decide to cancel it.