Pop on over to YouTube and do a last of us season 2 search, you may be surprised
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The Last of Us - Season 2 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Wong
- Start date
Pop on over to YouTube and do a last of us season 2 search, you may be surprised
Well then they were right to cut it from the game because it served no narrative purpose other than to introduce a slight mystery about the scars which frankly was ripped right out of Resident Evil 4
One thing I did like about the finale goes back to ep 5 where Ellie and Dina are in the infected building and are about to be killed when right in the Nick of time we get Jessie ex machina. I kind of eyerolled that but then in the finale Jessie explains to Ellie how shitty she and Dina were in covering their tracks. I did appreciate them not ignoring that
No thanks. I don’t watch YouTube.
Why not?
Chris Will
Senior HTF Member
This illustrates some of the problems I have with this season and the changes to the plot compared to the game. In the game, Jesse did not come to Seattle with Tommy. Tommy was the first to leave Jackson...
In the game, Tommy is with Joel on patrol when they meet Abby. Tommy is the one who first says their names, so that Abby now knows she is with Joel, and blames himself for his death.
There is no 3-month gap from Joel's death to when Ellie/Dina leave Jackson, it happens only days later. The night before, Tommy brings Ellie some food and asks her to give him 1 day to talk to Maria but, instead Tommy takes off for Seattle alone. Maria reads a letter that Tommy left her asking her to stop Ellie from going but, she wants Ellie to go to bring her dumb husband back, and Ellie wants to go to kill Abby. Dina goes because in the game they are already together, she goes out of love for Ellie; "You go, I go" she says.
So, Tommy leaves, then Ellie/Dina leave, then Jesse leaves going after Ellie/Dina. But, as the game player, you do not know that. In Seattle, Ellie/Dina find a radio and are tracking Tommy and trying to find Abby. They constantly hear about dead WLFs turning up and assume it is Tommy's wrath. They think finding him will also help them find Abby. At one point, you think you are about to find Tommy, but it is Jesse instead, which is a surprise to the characters and the player. Dina is much sicker from the pregnancy in the game, and Jesse says they need to get her back to Jackson. Ellie says she can't and has to still find Tommy because "he's out here because of me". Jesse says Dina will not leave without her, so he agrees to help Ellie find Tommy. There was no rendezvous point because, again, they did not come together.
Like the show, Ellie learns enough to know that Abby has been at the Aquarium so, that's where she and Jesse start heading. During the gameplay, you overhear WLF communications and soldiers about a sniper killing WLFs at the Marina. Jesse wants to head there but, Ellie wants to keep going to the Aquarium because she also still wants to find Abby. This is when they argue and separate with Jesse saying the same line "I hope you make it".
Some of the changes alter character motivations and emotional arcs that I just don't think work as good as they did in the game. My biggest gripe is the changes to Ellie in the show. Game Ellie was a lot darker, much angrier and much more laser focused on getting Abby.
It's like they kept trying to switch her anger on and off in the show. Too many times in the show Ellie was having happy moments and second thoughts. In the game, really the first time she questions her resolve is after killing Mel, which also happens differently in the game. In the game, Ellie, Owen are Mel are all standing closer together. Owen lunges for Ellie's gun and in a quick tussle, Ellie shoots him in the abdomen. Mel then lunges for Ellie with a knife, knocks her gun out, but Ellie gains control of the knife and stabs her in the neck. She dies pretty quickly. Owen, who is on the ground, struggling to breathe and talk, calls Ellie over and whispers to her that Mel is pregnant. Ellie unzips Mel's jacket to reveal her pregnant belly and for the first time in the game, becomes visibly disturbed with what she's done. She starts crying and vomiting until both Tommy and Jesse come in to take her back to the theater. Having show Ellie question whether they should continue a handful of times undermines the emotional impact of this scene.
Yet another change that I do not like. In the show, not only do we, the audience, learn why Abby killed Joel much earlier than we do in the game, but Ellie learns it as well. In the game, we, the player, do not learn that the doctor was Abby's father until after the theater scene with Abby. That scene plays out almost exactly like the game, Abby's "you wasted it" line, and cut to black. The game fades up, and you are now playing as a younger Abby. It's a flashback that shows us that the doctor was Abby's father. That is the first time we know in the game.
In the game, Ellie never finds out why Abby killed Joel, never finds out that the doctor was her father. I don't like this change at all. In the game, Abby doesn't ever know about Joel's relationship with Ellie and craves vengeance. Ellie doesn't know about Abby's relationship to the doctor and craves vengeance. Their cycle of violence is a mirror of each other, more than they ever know. The show removes this element, which, IMO, has a big impact on the emotional beats of the story. They don't land the same in the show.
Like I said above, Abby and Ellie are both feeding their need for vengeance. For Abby, it doesn't matter why Joel did it, for Ellie it doesn't matter why Abby did it (except in the show she does know, which screws up the whole mirroring aspect, argh!). Who will finally be the one to stand up and stop the cycle?I understand (or at least I believe I understand) the cycle of violence questions the series raises on both the macro and micro levels (as mentioned by Adam). I think the biggest issue I have with Abby at this point boils down to this difference:
Joel killed everyone in the hospital to save Ellie and for the most part (Marlene being the exception) dispatched them quickly.
Abby slowly killed Joel to feed her need for vengeance.
For me, two entirely different types of violence; which is why the focus on Abby is (at least at this moment) anathema to me. (Tino is telling me to be patient.)
I know it sounds like I do not like this season. I did enjoy it, but having played the game, I know how much better it could have been, which will only be made worse by the coming 2-year wait for season 3. Now there are rumors that they will stretch this out to 4 seasons, which confuses me. Ellie and Abby's halves are almost the same length in the game. If they could do all of Ellie's Seattle story in 3 episodes, why is it going to take 2 seasons for Abby's? The endgame levels are not enough for a whole season IMO.
Like others have pointed out, in the game, you just continue playing. It would be different if the next season were this fall, but making the audience wait 2 years is ridiculous, and this trend needs to end. This should have been a 13/14 episode season, and just done the whole adaptation at once. I think this show would have landed better for most show-only people if they knew the next episode was only a week or a few months away.
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It also creates kind of a plot hole because in the show, he knows Abby’s motivation where as in the game he does not. Why didn’t Joel even attempt to explain his actions at the hospital. He just says nothing. Sure it might not have changed things but it makes little sense not to have at least tired
As for the future of the series, I’d imagine if they could find a way to stretch out the story and HBO is ok with it they would try to go four seasons. However rumor has it there was significant audience dropoff after Joel was killed (I personally can attest to one friend of mine not bothering after Joel died. He asked me if it was worth continuing and I said frankly “no”. He would be even more critical of this season’s issues than I was). I’ll bet even some more tapped out after the “I’m gonna be a dad” cringe fest. So there may be no guarantee this show makes it to a season four
Nothing there interests me
Chris Will
Senior HTF Member
I think he meant more that you can continue playing right away. You don't have to put down the controller for 2 years. I agree. As much as I love both of these games, my 2 favorite of all time, not doing the whole 2nd game in one long season was a mistake.
Agreed.
By the way I just completed Part 1 again on grounded. My sixth playthru. And I'm on Part 2 grounded. My 5th playthru.
TravisR
Senior HTF Member
I wouldn't go on there to find the exact cesspool of hate for everything that you think you'll find on there but there's some wild old junk that's a fun way to stroll down memory lane. Wanna see Fudgy the Whale or Crazy Eddie or old Star Trek TV commercials? They're all on there.
Yeah, there’s stuff in YouTube for everyone. I watch YouTube more than television these days,
As for the cesspool of hate, with regards to TLOU yeah there is some hater-y material out there, but plenty of videos offer fair analysis
Anecdotally, I'm seeing mixed reactions from both friends and critics, skewing towards disappointment compared to the first season.
Joe Wong
Senior HTF Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 1999
- Messages
- 3,119
Agreed. There’s so much stuff on YouTube.
My wife the history major watches all these history professors with their own YouTube channels talk about stuff she’s interested in, like the Tudor kings and queens of England.
I watch movie and TV stuff, restaurant reviews, and travel. For example, I’ve been watching a lot of videos on Universal’s Epic Universe theme park in Orlando that opened last week.
YMMV.
“Abby Is the Hero”: To the Dismay of 'The Last of Us' Game and Show Fans, the Creator Doubles Down on Controversial Choices Ahead of Season 3
Yeah I saw that. That was kind of my prediction anyway that all the “good” traits were going to go to Abby. Also makes me think they made Ellie unlikable on purpose. They really also didn’t seem to like Joel
Chris Will
Senior HTF Member
No offense, but sometimes I wonder if you actually played the game. Game Ellie is unlikable. They made show Ellie more likable compared to her game counterpart. She questions her resolve more often in the show, offering to end the mission a few times, but Dina says no. In the last episode, wants to save a kid from the Scars. Game Ellie didn't do any of that, never questioned anything until after Mel's death, which was more gruesome and intentional in the game.
In the game, Abby shows far more compassion and is willing to help others in her half of the story. With Lev's encouragement, Abby is the one who finally stops fighting in the theater. Abby refuses to fight Ellie at the end of the game until Ellie threatens to kill Lev. Yes, Abby killed Joel, but Ellie killed all of her friends in return. I honestly don't see how anyone who finishes this game comes away thinking Ellie is the more likable character.
Yeah a played the game but it was a few years ago. But game Ellie works better for me despite having a more compromised morality because of her intensity. You really believe game Ellie’s commitment to her mission. Show Ellie for me is wishy washy with her anger and intensity seeming to turn on or off at will.
But anyway it’s not a contest of morality between the two characters for me. It’s not about Ellie’s morality. We’re in a different world here where your morality can easily get you killed. I found show Ellie to be off putting due to personality reasons. For one blowing up Joel’s Eugene story in front of Gail, that pissed me off, or the lack of respect in general she shows to Joel (yeah I get she’s pissed at him but there are times she just comes across as a bratty teen), refusing to accept Seth’s apology, constant cursing etc. You mentioned wanting to intervene with the scars kid situation, that would have been monumentally stupid and it was a good thing Jessie was there to stop her. And of course the “I’m gonna be a Dad”
Overall I believe that just in general Ashley Johnson have a much better performance as Ellie than Ramsey
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Adam Lenhardt
Senior HTF Member
This wouldn't be a problem if seasons two through four had been one 21-episode season.
As it is, the show's earned the benefit of the doubt with me, but I do hate that Bella Ramsey will be probably be 30 by the time that cliffhanger is resolved.
Walter Kittel
Senior HTF Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 1998
- Messages
- 10,444
I stumbled on to this yesterday. Contains some discussion of the game vs. series. Recaps quite a bit of the discussion in this thread, but I thought I'd post a link for those interested in another conversation on the topic of the show...
arstechnica.com
- Walter.
The problem with The Last of Us season 2 is that it’s too faithful an adaptation
A short second season ends with a literal bang and a figurative whimper.
arstechnica.com
- Walter.
Chris Will
Senior HTF Member
The writer in that article who played the game did not even like the second game, so I can't take anything he says seriously. He was predisposed to dislike this season before it even started. Reading between the lines, it sounds like he wanted the second game just to be another Joel/Ellie buddy adventure. I completely disagree because I love the second game and think it's one of the best stories I've ever played.
I've discussed my issues with this season which boil down to they decided to fundamentally change character motivations and revealed Abby's motives which hurts the narrative. After thinking about it some more, I am convinced that Niel and Craig were nervous about the backlash the game received from a "certain group" of gamers, so they decided to try and make both Ellie and Abby more sympathetic from the start. It robbed us of the truly dark areas this games takes us and ruin the narrative structure.
If you are going to reveal Abby's motives in episode 1/2 then there is no real reason to stick with the games narrative structure. They should have just told it linearly, switching between each character. Maybe have an Ellie episode, then an Abby episode, Eliie episode etc.
I've discussed my issues with this season which boil down to they decided to fundamentally change character motivations and revealed Abby's motives which hurts the narrative. After thinking about it some more, I am convinced that Niel and Craig were nervous about the backlash the game received from a "certain group" of gamers, so they decided to try and make both Ellie and Abby more sympathetic from the start. It robbed us of the truly dark areas this games takes us and ruin the narrative structure.
If you are going to reveal Abby's motives in episode 1/2 then there is no real reason to stick with the games narrative structure. They should have just told it linearly, switching between each character. Maybe have an Ellie episode, then an Abby episode, Eliie episode etc.
