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The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012) (1 Viewer)

Matthew_Def

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Ben Osborne said:
I think that above quotes, from Tolkien's letters, are relevant to this discussion. I think it's clear that Tolkien himself, if he were to have re-written The Hobbit, would have made it more like The Lord of the Rings in weight and style. When he wrote the The Hobbit, it was not even connected to the world of The Silmarillion. It was through writing the LOTR that he added depth to the story and connected it with his larger mythology.
Tolkien did try to rewrite the Hobbit to be more like the LOTR. It didn't work, it wasn't The Hobbit anymore, and he promptly stopped.
I have concerns for the film. It will be padded, and it'll no longer be focused on Bilbo, that is disappointing to hear. I will see it, and try to just accept it for what it is. I really like Del Toro, so I hope he nails it.
 

Ben Osborne

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Matthew, Tolkien stopped because some of the people who offered feedback didn't like it because it wasn't The Hobbit that they knew. I wouldn't say that it didn't work. We don't have the finished result in order to make that judgment. If the portions of The Unfinished Tales related to the evens The Hobbit are any indication, I would say that they do work.
Do you think that the re-writes to the "Riddles in the Dark" chapter don't work, and that only the version from the first edition of the book should be included in the film?
 

Jim_C

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David Forbes said:
I think you need to go back and reread some of Edwin's comments.
Well, the statement didn't specify Edwin so it's easy to assume it was directed towards all of us who are expressing concerns. If it's directed only towards him then perhaps the statement fits.
 

Edwin-S

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I'll show antipathy to anyone who decides to make changes to the original work in order to create two movies -mostly for financial reasons- or one movie that is padded and bloated in order to make it fit better as a prequel to LOTR. In both cases the movie(s) is(are) being made for the wrong reasons.
The Hobbit was about Bilbo Baggins's discovery of a side of himself that he wasn't even aware he had. It wasn't about The Ring or the politics of Middle Earth or the rise of Sauron or Gandalf the Grey or what made Mirkwood dark. It was a story about a homebody who finds out that he has talents and resources hidden deep within himself. Hell, even the very title of the book indicates who or what the story is going to be about.
Mr. Forbes, you said there is no pleasing me. What would please me is if they made one movie that told Tolkien's story which was clearly focussed on Bilbo's development through his experiences. They can call it a day after making that film. What would especially please me is if people like Jackson and Del Toro would stop thinking that they can "improve" the story of The Hobbit and tell it better than the original author did.
Some of the worst parts of the LOTR trilogy were where Jackson and his crew made changes to the story; one of the most egregious being the rewriting of Gimli as a comic relief oaf, whose "humour" derived mostly from belching, farting, and gluttonous behavior. Can I expect the same kind of ignorant changes to The Hobbit?
As for Del Toro, I remain unconvinced that he was the best choice to direct THE HOBBIT. Del Toro revels in the nightmarish....at least I get that sense from the stuff that I have seen. I'm not saying he can't pull off The Hobbit. I'm just concerned that his bent for the bizarre and nightmarish is going to invade and wreck the story.
 

David Forbes

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Edwin-S said:
The Hobbit was about Bilbo Baggins's discovery of a side of himself that he wasn't even aware he had. It wasn't about The Ring or the politics of Middle Earth or the rise of Sauron or Gandalf the Grey or what made Mirkwood dark. It was a story about a homebody who finds out that he has talents and resources hidden deep within himself. Hell, even the very title of the book indicates who or what the story is going to be about.
And how do you know this isn't what they will be focusing on? Oh, that's right. You don't. Because the script(s) aren't completed yet.
Whether you like it or not, the LORD OF THE RINGS movies are out there, and were wildly successful, both commercially and artistically. I agree with you that some of the changes PJ & Co. made were to the detriment of the story (I wasn't a fan of some of the changes to Frodo's character, and I agree with you about Gimli), but I also think they made changes for the better. Arwen was much better incorporated into the story as a character rather than a "prize" to Aragorn who appeared at the end out of left field. I like the way some of the material from the appendices were added as well.
That said, a HOBBIT movie is going to have to "blend" with the LOTR movies for them to succeed. That's merely a fact of life. I'm am hoping for a faithful accounting of the novel with added material from the LOTR appendices that fleshes out things like the White Council, the realization that Sauron is the Necromancer of Dol Guldur, things like that. Which are things Tolkien himself wrote.
But we shall see. The difference is I am going in with a positive attitude, giving the makers a very large benefit of the doubt based on their earlier work, while your attitude so far has been uniformly negative.
David
 

David Forbes

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Edwin-S said:
As for del Toro, I remain unconvinced that he was the best choice to direct THE HOBBIT. Del Toro revels in the nightmarish....at least I get that sense from the stuff that I have seen. I'm not saying he can't pull off The Hobbit. I'm just concerned that his bent for the bizarre and nightmarish is going to invade and wreck the story.
We will agree to disagree here. I think Del Toro is capable of astounding depths of beauty both in composition and character. Besides, look at Jackson's work prior to the LOTR. BRAIN DEAD? MEET THE FEEBLES? Fun, schlocky, grade-Z gross-out horror flicks. And he produced some truly sublime beauty with the LOTR.
I am absolutely confident del Toro will do just as well.
David
 

mattCR

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Lawsuits erupt as the family wants production stopped until they get paid residuals they feel weren't dished out on the trilogy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/jul/16/tolkien-family-sues-new-line
 

Sam Favate

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This has been going on for a while now. Apparently the Tolkien estate has not seen any money from the LOTR movies, victims of Hollywood's creative accounting -- showing somehow on paper that the films didn't make any money.
 

Sam Favate

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I'd say Tom Cruise has about as much (or maybe a slightly better) chance as being cast in The Hobbit as Megan Fox does in Chris Nolan's next Batman.
 

Raasean Asaad

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If the tolkien estate has not received any royalties or meager royalies then I agree with them forcing production to shut down.
 

Edwin-S

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Originally Posted by Raasean Asaad /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If the tolkien estate has not received any royalties or meager royalies then I agree with them forcing production to shut down.
Agreed. Studios like Warner Bros sit and whine about people ripping off their properties without paying but turn around and think it is an acceptable business practice to stiff the original creators (or their families) of the properties that their movies are based on. It's sick that Tolkien's family has to actually go to court to get a slice of the cash that has been generated from the filming of their relative's creative output. I hope Tolkien succeeds in putting a knife into any filming of THE HOBBIT if Warner doesn't cough up a proper settlement.
 

John CW

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I'm pretty sure they will gets LOTS of money at some point. PJ had to fight, too, and it all worked out for him.
 

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