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The Heisman Trophy

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Patrick Larkin, Nov 25, 2002.

  1. Patrick Larkin

    Patrick Larkin Screenwriter

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    Call me a homer, but you have to give the Trophy to Penn State's Larry Johnson.

    Johnson has amassed 2015 yards this season. That has only been done 8 other times. No running back has ever run for 2000 yds on a 9 win team and NOT won the Heisman.

    In addition to the 2000 yard season, LJ had 341 yards receiving - most ever for a RB in PSU history. He finished with an average of 8.02 yards per carry - an NCAA record.

    Larry Johnson shattered the Penn State all time season rushing record as well as the single game record.

    And, to top it off, after each of Larry Johnson's touchdowns, he walks over to the referee and hands him the ball.
     
  2. Jed M

    Jed M Cinematographer

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    The only thing working against Johnson is that he disappears in big games. If it was not for that I think the award ceremony would just be a formality. That said, I think he may win it but don't count out Brad Banks or McGahee (sp). I'm with you though, I think he should win, I mean 8 yards per carry? You gotta be kidding me. [​IMG]
     
  3. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    I think that Johnson deserves the award, but I expect the trophy to go to Ken Dorsey. Call it the Gino Toretta rule.
    Larry Johnson would look mighty fine in a Detroit Lions uniform next season, and he already has experience playing on a losing team, so it would be a perfect fit. [​IMG]
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Johnson did not run well against Ohio State, Michigan, and Iowa, but those are great defenses. He still was respectable in those games, plus he had very good games in terms of total yardage.
    Larry Johnson absolutely deserves the Heisman. This one is a no-brainer. Period.
    [c]http://www.pennlive.com/cgi-bin/nph-...1.jpg&ct=10800[/c]
     
  5. Brandon_T

    Brandon_T Screenwriter

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    I don't think LJ should win it. To me the Heisman in more that tearing off a monster 4 game streak. Not saying at all that this kid isn't talented, he is. He is what stands out to me: Home against Iowa-68yards, @Mich. 78yards, @Ohio St. 66yards. These were all top 15 teams when they played.

    In the final four games, none of wich were against ranked opponents, he gained 1073yards. I would like to see him perform better when it counted most.

    And the lions had there chance to draft a RB last year, they could have taken Portis, but chose Kalimba Edwards instead. Things will never change as long as the Fords own the team.

    Brandon
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Brandon,
    I understand your point, but LJ still leads the nation in total yards, and he had good games in terms of total yardage in Penn State's losses. Even if you consider that LJ has amassed a lot of yardage against lesser defenses, they are still Big Ten defenses. Furthermore, how many other guys have done what he has done against even bad defenses? You don't have guys amassing the kind of yards he has week after week. Above all, LJ makes it look so easy. He is fast, so he can go around you, plus he is big, so he can bowl you over. He is just a great back.
    Scott said:
     
  7. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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  8. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    Keith, while his performance this year has inarguably been the best in college football, saying that he should win the heismann is, in fact, a brainless statement. While Larry Johnson's stats are great, and he has pulled off four monster games this year, this is one case where the success, or lack of success, of his team has really hurt his chances of winning the heismann. I know that unless someone really shatters the record books (national, not conference or school, a la LJ) while playing on a team that is not a conference winner, then it is a little bit tough to stomach him winning the heismann. I just cant see a Heismann winner coming from a team that is fourth in their own conference.
    Dont get me wrong, I think that LJ has put together a hell of a season, but what goes with the Heismann is that a player has to make sure that his team wins with his performance, and wins often. Players that win the Heismann often put up their best performances when their team has to win, and Larry Johnson this year has failed to do so. If he had even a single 100 yard rushing day against Iowa, Michigan or Ohio State, then I would choose him as the Heismann favorite. But as it stands, he had mediocre (by his standards) days rushing in all three games, and this really hurt his Heismann chances. Also, if he had had a 100 yard rushing day against any of the three mentioned above, AND his team won, he could have only had 1500 yards rushing this year and still be considered the favorite.
    But as of right now, I think that the Heismann race is a two dog race: Brad Banks and Ken Dorsey. The winner: I pick Banks.
     
  9. Sean P

    Sean P Agent

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    Two points. First, it's not like any of the three losses were blowouts. Each had (by some)disputed calls on a close game that came down to the final minutes. As someone who was at the Penn State / Michigan game, I can definately say that Larry Johnson had a huge impact on the game, simply by virtue of how Michigan reacted to his presence. When he was out there, the entire defense seemed focused on him. As a matter of fact, I attribute a large part of that loss to the fact that in the OT, Larry was taken out on 3rd down. Meaning that they would throw. I guess it's a moot point now, but at the time...

    As for someone who has made a huge impact simply through virtue of his presence, look at Barry Bonds. And look at how that ended up for the MVP...


    Sean P
     
  10. Patrick Larkin

    Patrick Larkin Screenwriter

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    Penn State was 9-3. 2 of their 3 losses came in overtime. Their loss to Ohio State was by 6 points. 2 of their 3 losses were to the #2 and #4 teams in the country.
    Every player that has amassed 2000 yards and won 9 games has WON the Heisman trophy.
    Iowa - I was at this game. Iowa had a total rout going. If you watched the game, you would realize that Penn State passed nearly the whole game trying to catch up. Check out Bryant Johnson's (WR) numbers to see this fact.
    The Big 10 is damned good. Finishing 4th behind the #2 and #4 team is quite a feat.
    Ken Dorsey
    I'm sorry, I can't give the Heisman to a QB that goes 14 for 26 for 163 vs Pitt or 16 for 31 for 192 vs Rutgers. STINKIN Rutgers! And a 54% completion percentage? 22/9 TDs to INTs? Yow.
    Now Brad Banks on the other hand performed much better. 60% CP. 25/4 TD/INT.
    Dorsey should be 3rd if anything but LJ should win it.
     
  11. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    I doubt that Brad Banks chances are even as good as Larry Johnson's. Outside of the Big Ten region, most people have never heard of Banks.

    If there was an obvious choice of a single player who stands out head and shoulders above everyone else, then Johnson would not be deserving. However, since there are no standout candidates, his numbers certainly justify getting the award.
     
  12. Jed M

    Jed M Cinematographer

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    How about these numbers?
    3214 yards
    62% completion percentage
    32 TD to 8 Int.
    At least 2 TD passes in each of his last 7 games
    2 Losses both coming from top 10 BCS teams by just one score (1 in OT).

    Its too bad Carson Palmer plays out here on the west coast.
     
  13. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Screenwriter

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    Although a 2,000 yard season used to be a gauranteed Heisman I have to agree with the posters that say he didn't do it against the top teams. A RB must produce against the top teams he faces and LJ just didn't do it. He didn't have to rush for over 100 in all three games but he had to of rushed over 100 yards in at least one. It's just like a QB has to produce against top teams; a QB can't have a 200 yard passing day with 1 td against the top 3 teams he faced, he has to hit the 300 yard 3 td day at least once.

    Ken Dorsey hasn't looked that good this year, McGahee(sp?) has been the better player.

    Banks has played VERY well and Carson Palmer is having a monster year. I don't know who should win it.

    Man, ever since 99 there hasn't been a very good Heisman class.
     
  14. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Screenwriter

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    Carson Palmer's stats are almost as good as Peyton Manning's in 97

    Mannings....
    3,819 yards
    36 TDs to 11 Int.
    60.2% complettion %

    Palmers...
    3214 yards
    62% completion percentage
    32 TD to 8 Int.
    At least 2 TD passes in each of his last 7 games
    2 Losses both coming from top 10 BCS teams by just one score (1 in OT).

    If Palmer has a good showing against Notre Dame and wins.....
     
  15. Bill Blank

    Bill Blank Stunt Coordinator

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    If Johnson doesn't get it, Banks will. Dorsey is undeserving as is Miami for being ranked #1. They should've lost to Florida State and Pitt. Not to mention Rutgers and even Temple gave them a scare.

    Iowa, IMO, is the best team in the country. Ohio State/Miami will be a boring game. If Ohio State played Iowa this year they would've gotten romped. Penn State and Ohio State could easily be in each others' spot. Ohio State is a fraud, they've won half their games by less than a touchdown.

    In the end, I'm not sure I care if LJ wins the Heisman. It's a bit of a curse and PSU backs have had enough bad luck recently when starting out in the pro ranks.

    Bill
     
  16. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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  17. Mark.Louis

    Mark.Louis Stunt Coordinator

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    Carlson Palmer will win it if USC beats Notre Dame this weekend. Hands down the best numbers in the nation.
     
  18. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Chung,
    I don't appreciate you saying that my opinion is "brainless". That was uncalled for.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    All,
    I don't think Carson Palmer will win the Heisman. As Jed said, his playing on the west coast will likely hurt him. I am not saying that Palmer is undeserving (he's put up great numbers), but I don't think he will win it.
    Banks has had a great year, but I feel he has played in relative anonymity. Unfortunately for him, Iowa did not get widespread TV coverage this year.
    My feeling is that Larry Johnson should still win the Heisman. However, Dorsey has been getting the publicity all year, and he still could end up winning it. It just so happens that I feel he is the least deserving of all the candidates.
    In the end, this is a wide-open Heisman race, which is good since Larry Johnson did not come onto the national scene until late in the season. [​IMG]
     
  19. Brandon_T

    Brandon_T Screenwriter

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    I would probably vote for Carson Palmer myself. I am sick and tired, however, of hearing about "cause he plays on the west coast". Look, you have the the great weather, and hot chicks out there so I think that is a fair trade off!! J/K

    Palmers numbers may be almost as good as Mannings, but as I recall Manning didn't win the Heisman either.

    And about the lions drafting well, that doesn't have as much to do with M & M as it does with Tobin the director of player personell or whatever his title is. He is for all purposes in charge of the draft.

    Brandon
     
  20. Evan Case

    Evan Case Screenwriter

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    Things to remember about LJ's three "bad" games:

    Against Iowa (#2 run defense in the nation, btw): PSU falls behind 23-0, so that kind of hurts the running game, no? LJ still manages 161 yards of total offense and 2 tds, bringing them back to the brink of victory in OT.

    Against Michigan: LJ plays the entire game with an injured hamstring (and didn't even play in PSU's first 2-3 series). Still manages almost 140 yards of total offense and a TD.

    Against Ohio State (#3 run defense in the country, BTW): LJ's worst statistical day, no doubt, with only 98 total yards. He does, however, score the only offensive TD either team managed that day. It is also worth noting that Zack Mills was awful that day (a rare occurrence, thankfully). When it became obvious Mills couldn't beat them through the air that day, OSU was able to concentrate much more upon the ground game.

    Another point: In many of the early PSU games, Mills and the passing game was the star. Paterno didn't have to go to LJ because the air attack was working so well. It was as though he didn't know what he had at RB early on (also evidenced from LJ limited use in 2000 and 2001). Once he found out though, the passing game became the secondary attack very quickly.

    One last point: In Marcus Allen's 2000-yard Heisman year, Allen carried the ball over 400 times. LJ has carried it less than 260.

    So basically, I say LJ for Heisman, with Banks or Palmer making the strongest alternative cases. McGahee is good, but doesn't have the stats and if Dorsey wins it's strictly for "Lifetime Achievement" which I would definitely disagree with.

    Evan
     

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