The Godfather - Help me understand (spoilers).... (2 Viewers)

[Michael Reuben]

Right after the end credits start, whan they list the major players names, they run through Al Pacino, Robert DeNiro + the rest, and then it says "and Nicholas Cage."

Two problems. First of all, that's not a cast credit; it's an executive producer credit. The preceding title card says:

[c]Executive producers[/c]
[c]Fred Fuchs[/c]

Second problem: It's not the actor Nicolas (no "h") Cage. It's the producer Nicholas (with an "h") Gage (with a "g"). You can look him up at IMDb.

M.

 

[Al B. C]

DOH!! :b

 

[Christ Reynolds]

this makes me want to watch the trilogy over again, i guess i have seen the movies so many times that i dont pay as much attention as i should. i have the laserdisc set that shows the trilogy in chronological order 'godfather saga', has anyone watched it the whole way through like this? coppola was always editing it up, never left it alone, but it could be an interesting way to view the trilogy. maybe i will try it.

CJ

 

[Yee-Ming]

and then it says "and Nicholas Cage

Easy mistake to make, considering Cage is Coppola's nephew, and knowing Coppola's penchant for casting family. Has Cage ever gone by his real name?

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

Has Cage ever gone by his real name?

Fast Times at Ridgemont High (1982)

 

[JonZ]

sorry edited

 

[Tommy Ceez]

BTW... To put another perspective on why Rosato says "Michael Corleone says hello" as he's killing Pantangeli if the hit was ordered by Roth...

Rosato was probably told that the hit came from within the Corleones. That way if caught by the police or Pantangeli's crew he would cause even more problems for michael. Plust the street bragging factor.

 

[Nick Totoro]

I kinda' felt the same thing. The Rosato Brothers were probably told the hit came from ordered from Michael via Johnny Ola or someone lesser than Roth (buffers, ya' know... ). They were probably made to believe that to keep the heat away from Roth. It wouldn't be too hard for them to believe, considering they probably got word somehow through the grapevine that Michael told Frankie basically to go pound sand when he was begged to do something about the Rosatos.

Then again, this may just be all wild speculation. IIRC, Danny Aiello ad-libbed that line in the bar as he garrotted Frankie Five Angels...

Nick

 

[Jeremiah]

I am going to watch part 1 today or tommarrow but I always thought Vito comes to the realization that Barzini was behind it during the funeral, and Vito says it on the ride home. I have only seen it a handfull of times so I am not sure.

 

[Nick Totoro]

The only funeral shown in the film is Vito's, though...

When he mentions it is in the car leaving the meeting with the heads of the other families.

Nick

 

[Jeremiah]

The only funeral shown in the film is Vito's, though...

When he mentions it is in the car leaving the meeting with the heads of the other families.

Oh LOL! Looks like I better watch part 1 ASAP.

 

[Cees Alons]

Discovered this thread a bit late - but Michael Reuben already said everything I would have wanted to post here myself (and probably more than I could have).

About reading the book: in my opinion, there are very few plot lines, exclusively in the book, that enrich your understanding of the film. Some more or less relevant extra information - to me - include:
(1) in an early scene in GF1 the girls at the table are discussing Sonny's "size". You don't necessarily understand that if you don't know about it.
(2) The "arrangements" to bring Michael back to the US involve a member of another family who is irrevocably convicted to death for murder and who confesses the murder on Sollozzo (and Captain McCluskey) as an unexpected extra to earn a pension for his widow- and orphans-to-be.
(3) Fabrizio has come to the US, working in a shop, and is executed on Michael's order. I seem to remember it was a bakery shop, which would make him a nice mirror of the young Italian American who helps Michael saving Don Corleaone's life (while shitting his pants) when he's in the hospital, left all alone.

The "chronological version" is also known as The Godfather Epic (Saga), or The Godfather Trilogy: 1901-1980 and is a special 1992 re-cut (with a few extra scenes) made by Coppola for TV and direct-to-video.

I never knew that Frankie Pentangeli, "Frankie Five-Angels", should have been Clemenza. Interesting and indeed makes some extra sense. It's also sad: Clemenza and Tessio both untrue to the Corleone family in the end, though in a different way.
Thanks for the info, Jason.


Cees

 

[Brian W.]

The peace is broken by Barzini plotting to murder Michael at the meeting on Tessio's territory. Up to that point there is no indication the Corleones are continuing the war though they obviously suspect something is going on.

Well, maybe in the theatrical version. I don't know if this scene is in the bonus materials on the DVD or not, but in "The Godfather Saga," the re-edit of the first two films for TV, there was a scene with Michael and the Don when Michael first came back from Sicily, BEFORE he contacts Kay, where Michael reveals that he will eventually get revenge for Sonny's death. This scene was omitted from "The Godfather Trilogy," Coppola's 1990s re-edit of all three movies. (There are several brief scenes in "Saga" that were cut in "Trilogy.")

This is the dialogue as I remember it. They're walking in the garden and Vito is pointing out some new flowers or something they've planted:

Michael: Pop, what about Sonny? What about Sicily?

Vito: I swore I would never break the peace.

Michael: But won't they take that as a sign of weakness?

Vito: (sadly) It is a sign of weakness.

Michael: You gave your word, but I didn't give mine...

Don't recall exactly what Michael says after this, but he basically says that eventually he will get even for Sonny's murder. Vito smiles warmly and seems very proud of him for saying that. I think Vito says, "We got a lot of time to talk about it now." It's quite a brief scene.

 

[Richard Kim]

About reading the book: in my opinion, there are very few plot lines, exclusively in the book, that enrich your understanding of the film. Some more or less relevant extra information - to me - include:
(1) in an early scene in GF1 the girls at the table are discussing Sonny's "size". You don't necessarily understand that if you don't know about it.

Oh, I understood it well enough before reading the book, believe me.

 

[Brian W.]

Oh, I understood it well enough before reading the book, believe me.

Yeah, but in the movie, they don't explain why Sonny goes after that particular woman -- how he's heard she could be particularly, uh, accomodating of him.

 

[george kaplan]

Actually I think it was his own pizzeria. If I recall correctly, there were two versions of his killing filmed (there are screen shots of the alternate version in a book on the trilogy, it's a real shame these alternate scenes weren't included on the dvd). In one version, a car bomb is used (not powerful enough to immediately kill him) since that is how Michael's wife was killed. In the other version, Michael himself goes and kills him with a shotgun.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Unfortunately, in part 2, I still don't fully understand the whole whorehouse episode, and whether the senator really killed her, or as seems more likely, he was drugged, and Neri killed her.

I've always assumed somebody else killed the hoooker and set up the Senator. It seems a stretch that the Senator is really a maniac and did it himself. And IIRC in the movie the Senator was whining non-stop about how he didn't remember any of it, what happened and so on. Sure sounds like he was drugged and set-up, especially since this came after he "defied" Michael -- if it had happened before, then perhaps the implication might be that Michael et al took advantage of the situation, here the narrative suggests they did it to "buy" him.

 

[Cees Alons]

I still don't fully understand the whole whorehouse episode

I think that is deliberately left open, so the viewer can draw his/her own conclusions.

Whatever explanation you choose, it's very fortunate that Senator Pat Geary (reportedly based upon a corrupt Nevada Senator, Pat McCarren) visits a whorehouse that's now controlled by the Corleones. He admits having been with that girl frequently before, so there's no reason to think Michael wouldn't have known that already when the first conversation between the two men took place.
The senator tries to come off as a strong, authoritative and distinguished person, fully in control, but he already appears to be dishonest. So Michael also must know he's really a corrupt weakling with aberrant sexual habits and that one way or another he will be able to blackmail him. Hence his immediate and surprising reaction: although the talkative Senator tells Michael in an insulting way he loathes Italian Americans, the reality is that Michael loathes him.

There are obvious parallels between the total structure of GF1 and GF2, the Senator resembles that director Jack Woltz. Both wake up to an awful dead reality and immediately give in. The girl mimics the horse-head on the bloody bed.

Given that parallel structure, you're certainly allowed to think they murdered that woman, like they "did" the horse - but because of the apparent weakness of the character of the senator, it doesn't really make a difference to the storyline, one way or another.

Cees

 

[Nick Totoro]

Fabrizio has come to the US, working in a shop, and is executed on Michael's order. I seem to remember it was a bakery shop, which would make him a nice mirror of the young Italian American who helps Michael saving Don Corleaone's life (while shitting his pants) when he's in the hospital, left all alone.

I'm sorry if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread, but one of the cut scenes from GF1 in the DVD set is of Fabrizio (can't remember his "Anglicized" pseudonym) at his pizzeria in America being blown up in a car bomb.

Nick