The Godfather - Help me understand (spoilers).... (1 Viewer)

[Carlos Mendoza]

I've decided to make an effort to TOTALLY understand the Godfather Trilogy (and started to rewatch the movies), but I have some questions...


After Sonny's killing, Vito does what is necessary to make the peace. After the meeting with the other families, he says something to the effect of:

"But I never knew until just now that it was Barzini all along."

What is he referring to here? I guess he means that Barzini was the one who tried to have him killed, but what about the meeting gave it away?

Also, after the peace is made, what exactly is it that happens that starts the tensions to flare again?

I'm having trouble keeping all the names straight too. Anyone know of a detailed synopsis that spells it all out?
Do the commentaries on DVD help with understanding the plot.

Feel free to add your own questions/comments/observations about the Godfather movies.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Darnit, Carlos...now I have to watch GODFATHER again!!!!

 

[JonZ]

Barzini was in cahoots with Sollozo(The Turk who killed Luca).They attempted to kill Vito,planted Carl(Connies husband) and is responsible for Sonny getting whacked.

This all comes out at the end when Michael faces Carl after getting rid of the other bosses. "You have to answer for Santino Carl" and then Carl confesses about Barzini.

Now, Im not sure if Bozzini planted Carl from the beginning or approached him after he had already started seeing Connie(It was Sonny who introduced Carl to his sister).

 

[Johnny V]

"But I never knew until just now that it was Barzini all along."

I could never figure that out either.

 

[Carlos Mendoza]

Barzini was in cahoots with Sollozo(The Turk who killed Luca).

yes, but how did Vito come to know this?

Is the "peace" that was made after Sonny's killing a sham? I don't think so, because Vito swore on the lives of his grandchildren, which seems like a sincere oath to me.

So if there really was an intention to make peace, and the Corleone's wanted to get out and move to Vegas (a seemingly peaceful act, as there would be more business for the remaining families to divide), what was the turn of events that once again shattered the peace?

Also, which family was the one responsible for the attempt on Michael's life? Was it Apollonia's own father that betrayed Michael?

 

[Michael Reuben]

Sollozzo "The Turk" presented himself to the Corleone family as being backed by the Tattaglia family. If you look at the meeting with Sollozzo at Genco Olive Oil, Barzini is never mentioned, and the entire drug enterprise is presented as an undertaking of the Tattalgia family.

Even when the families go to war, it's presented as the Tattaglias vs. the Corleones, which is why the first retaliation by Sonny is on Bruno Tattaglia.

At the peace meeting, Don Vito watches Barzini effectively run the meeting. He and Tattaglia are seated across from each other, and initially the discussion is between the two of them. But then Barzini steps in, and in the end it's Barzini who announces the terms of the peace. Tattaglia never questions him, but simply follows his lead. From this, Vito concludes (correctly) that the narcotics venture was really Barzini's project, but he used the Tattglias as a front, anticipating (correctly) that Vito would not support the move and that some sort of action against the Corleones would be required. This kept his family off the "frontlines" during the mob war (there is no reference at the meeting to anyone having lost a blood relative other than Tattaglia and Vito Corleone) and leaves him in the position to play the peacemaker at the meeting. He's pulled all the strings, gotten everything he wants, and he's done it all from behind the scenes.

M.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Was it Apollonia's own father that betrayed Michael?

There's no suggestion of that. Fabrizio's was the only betrayal needed to set up the hit.

M.

 

[Timon Russo]

Funny, I was just re-watching GF2 and have finally decided to unravel its plot. So good timing on this thread. I hope you don't mind me adding another question here, but can someone tell me who opens the curtains in Michael and Kays room at the beginning of the 2nd movie?

 

[Michael Reuben]

who opens the curtains in Michael and Kays room at the beginning of the 2nd movie?

Has to have been Fredo. There's no one else with access.

M.

 

[Timon Russo]

Michael Reuben -

Thats what I assumed, then again, I believed Fredo when he said Johnny Ola lied to him, and when he assured Michael he didn't know it was gonna be a hit. How could Fredo open the curtains and not know it was a hit? I'm sure you are right, I'm just not 100% clear on it. Or the Roth/Rosato/Pentangeli thing, but I'll save that for another day.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Or the Roth/Rosato/Pentangeli thing, but I'll save that for another day.

You don't have to. There are several prior threads on the subject, which I'm going to combine into a master thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=105365

M.

 

[Jason_Els]

Also, which family was the one responsible for the attempt on Michael's life?

Barzini. The Tattaglias were being offered a very lucrative piece of the narcotics business if they went along. Remember that Tessio and Clemenza complained to Michael and Vito that when they left they would come under Barzini's control at some point.

Richard Castellano didn't come back to do The Godfather: Part II because of salary disputes so they had to invent the character of Pentangeli. Just make Clemenza Pentangeli and part 2 makes more sense. Both men felt abandoned by the Corleones (and rightfully so).

 

[Nick Totoro]

Either Fredo really is that stupid or (more likely) he's fooling himself into believing Johnny's lame cover story, because he is genuinely angry with Michael (as he ultimately admits to Michael and displays in one of John Cazale's finest scenes -- "I was passed over!").

I vote stupidity blinded by jealousy...

Nick

 

[Michael Reuben]

The peace is broken by Barzini plotting to murder Michael at the meeting on Tessio's territory. Up to that point there is no indication the Corleones are continuing the war though they obviously suspect something is going on.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Both Barzini and the Corleones have plans in motion that will break the peace. But the Corleones get there first.

M.

 

[Nick Totoro]

The way I interpreted it was all bets were now off. Don Corleone and Don Barzini made deals with each other and Michael had nothing to do with it, other than safe passage back to the US. Neither Michael nor Barzini owed each other a thing. That was pretty evident when Don Corleone told Michael that Barzini would make a move on him and how it would be done. Even before his death, Don Corleone knew that being semi-retired was a convinient loophole of sorts for Barzini to make a move.

I suppose Don Corleone was kinda' saying "the best defense is a good offense... "

Nick

 

[Al B. C]

OK - related, but not related.

Just watched GF2 & GF3 last night. Why is Nicholas Cage's name in the credits of GF3?

 

[Michael Reuben]

Why is Nicholas Cage's name in the credits of GF3?

What is he credited as?

M.

 

[george kaplan]

Anyone who really wants to understand should read the book. It really helped me fully understand the Godfather. Unfortunately there's no novelization of Part 2, so I still don't understand that movie quite as well.

 

[Al B. C]

Right after the end credits start, whan they list the major players names, they run through Al Pacino, Andy Garcia + the rest, and then it says "and Nicholas Cage."

But - he is not listed later on when the actor are listed along with their respective roles.

Al Pacino......Michael Corleone.

 

[Nick Totoro]

You just need to watch it a few times and pay attention to some of the more "political" elements of the film.

There were bits and pieces of GF2 that were from the book. Thankfully, the whole storyline with Lucy Mancini (other than her get-togethers with Sonny) was left out of the movies. The whole storyline with her, her lover and Johnny Fontane and the mess with her being part owner of the casino in Vegas was just not needed. She was part owner on paper because the Don, as old-fashioned as he was, felt bad for her and took care of her after Sonny's death (hush money?), much to the dismay of Sandra Corleone.

If they had followed her storyline in the book, there would most definately have never been a Vincent Mancini, FWIW...

Nick