The "Get a Mac" Thread (1 Viewer)

[Patrick_S]

Brian honestly what an asinine and condescending post.How condescending of you. How much time have you wasted in the woodshop? The answer of course is none. It's one of your hobbies, something you do for enjoyment so the time spent there is not wasted. I say this even though I was once a cabinet maker whose tools actually paid for themselves many times over. I would never say to the amateur who enjoys the activity that they are wasting time simply because they spend time and money and get no financial return in the end. I understand it's a hobby so I appreciate and respect it as such.

It's the same for people who like to build their own PCs and play games on them. It's a hobby that entertains them. I don't see any reason to be condescending and imply that they are wasting their time because they are no more wasting their time then you are when your “messin” around in the woodshop or watching sports for that matter.

As more rational posters have already pointed out both platforms have their plus and minuses. I've used both but now have a substantial amount of software for the PC and see no reason to repurchase all of that software simply to get a machine that won't run any better for me then my current machines. I haven't had a crash or a virus in over ten years so from my perspective the PCs have worked well so there is no reason to switch over.

On to other topics, I have noticed that a one time strong hold for the Macs has changed in recent years. My current employment requires calling on school districts around the state and I have noticed the Mac install base is slowly dwindling. It's appears that Dell has done a very good job targeting school districts. That's not to imply that I still don't see Macs but I'm just surprised that Dell has been able to convert districts that were once Mac strongholds over to PCs.

 

[RichP]

Who said anything about restricting total access?

There is a vast difference between having to authenticate yourself before performing any potentially system-damaging functions and effectively running as root all the time, which is ostensibly what Windows does.

Protecting users does not equate to "restricting total access," rather, it is more akin to requiring someone to have the keys to your house before they come in to redecorate and move your furniture. Out of the box, Macs (Linux as well) require you to explicitly hand the keys to the program (person) you wish to perform the action (redecorate). Windows, well... Windows simply leaves the windows open so that anyone can come in and redecorate whenever they want unless you spend time and money installing bars on your Windows to prevent them. And even then, sometimes the bars rot over time and require constant maintenance to prevent random redecorators from coming into your home.

 

[Adam Bluhm]

I enjoy reading these threads. I cannot contribute a whole lot, as I have never really worked on a mac at all.

I enjoy windows based computers for two reasons. I like to have the ability to upgrade. I've been in situations where I've benefitted from upgrading memory, hard drive space and I'm now looking to upgrade my processor with the recent AMD pricing cuts. It's just nice to upgrade what I want on my watch and my dime.

I also like to play games. I don't think I would be able to play near as many games if I had a mac.

This pc cost me, including a 17" Samsung LCD, $1413. I was able to re-use optical drives when I built this machine. It's a 3700+, 2 gigs memory, 7800GT video, 250Gb SATA HDD and a Creative Audigy sound card. I already had the mouse, speakers and keyboard. I already had a copy of Win XP Pro.

I really doubt I could pay that and get a Mac with comparable power.

Considering the power of this pc, and the ability to upgrade pieces, at will, on my own, I'm very happy. I will not doubt that macs have a better OS and I will not doubt that macs are more stable, but I weigh my options and have to go with what suits me. Considering the above, I've had one browser hijacker in all my years of computing, and hijackthis fixed it. I'm not worried too much about viruses or whatnot. I don't carry any extra virus protection. I run Adaware and Spybot once every few months. I never seem to encounter any problems.

I understand that the more casual, ignorant pc user will not have the same benefits as someone who knows computers inside and out. They'll likely encounter a little more trouble and buy pre-packaged pc's with extra unnecessary software.

Anyway, I don't care what you use, as long as you're happy and it suits your needs!

My name is Adam Bluhm, and I typed this message on a windows based computer.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

They are actually. The problem with XP and previous windows is that most often they are run by users that have Admin privileges as the lesser accounts are frequently far too restrictive to be useful. This is going to change in Vista as there's now a lower tier user group that will be more useful but will still require a password from an Admin to install some programs or get root type access to the OS. IMO this is long over due and should really help cut down on the mess that can occur with 'joe user' running an Admin account when they don't have the background to know the ramifications of certain actions. There's a review of the new Vista accounts here. There's also a more indepth look at Vista here that shows some of the upcoming features that actually make it more OSX like then ever before.

I'm actually in the market for a new notebook and a good friend and co-worker just got a MacBook Pro that obviously has OSX but he also run's XP in parallels and switches to it on the fly for those few apps that are Windoes only. Its a very slick system and I could see it working for me...but its more money then I wanted to spend so I'll likely go Dell again and upgrade to Vista this spring.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

and there are still folks who say that all apple fans are fair minded.

CJ

 

[Carlo_M]

Here's the phrase in that WinVista article that worries me:
So by default, when Average Joe User [credit to Dodgeball ] creates his Vista account, he will by default again be an admin user.

How OSX combats this is when the admin acct is created, it still requires a password to install programs. Seems like a pain in the butt when you first do it (being a longtime XP user I was like "WTF? Password? I'm an admin!") but afterwards you realize this is actually a good idea. So any extra "programs" that want to install themselves requires you, even as admin, to type in your password to give it your blessing. We all know what the dreaded double-click as admin user on XP does: give whatever you double clicked the blessing to do just about anything it wants.

EDIT -- Well we almost got through 2 pages without personal attacks and overgeneralizations!

 

[Andrew Pratt]

I caught that as well CJ and you're right it could be an issue as a default setting. Hopefully in a comerical/work place setting it'll help resolve some issues though.

 

[RichP]

Yes, because as we all know, one person's opinion on an Internet message board is wholly representative of the entire class that person belongs to.

I would have hoped we'd moved past that.

 

[Tekara]

I haven't had any trouble with gaming in Linux; a couple of my favorites have native linux clients while the rest work fine through wine. No issues with drivers either, I actually have better support with bluetooth through linux than I have had through windows.

I use Linux because I am a computer hobbiest, much akin to a car mechanic always working on his car I enjoy being able to always do little things here and there to my computer.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

i, like brian, was just trying to prove a point.

CJ

 

[Luke_Y]

In regards to admin accounts and such, several of the applications I use require you to be logged on as an admin to run. Hell, I even had to give my 12 yo son an admin login to his computer because some of his games even require it. Talk about asking for trouble! Doubt that issue will be fixed by vista :frowning:

 

[Max Leung]

I really enjoyed reading Carlo's initial post on the virtues of the Mac. Well done!

I'm a Windows user - I have my custom built PC that I sunk way too much money on. But it was fun to put together - passively cooled Athlon XP machine, one case fan, silent PSU. Antec P180 case with a novel design (PSU goes on the bottom in a separate chamber).

But if I were to recommend a PC to a relative or friend, I'd tell them to get a Mac. Fixing their computers is a massive chore. I'm good at it - but I HATE it. I feel like I'm losing years of my life when I have to clear away a virus or resolve a driver conflict or get rid of recurring popups.

Most of the people I know don't game very much - if they did, they'd be computer experts because you need to be one to get most of today's games to work.

I tell them to get an Intel iMac. Or an Intel Mac Mini. Bootcamp for those 2D games (like Bejeweled or that Aztec frog colored balls games). They can buy Office for the Mac for the usual stuff. That's it. Problem solved. No more stress for me.

Since I'm a PC enthusiast I don't mind building my own PCs. Hell, I'll probably make myself a hacked versions of OSX that will work on it just to play around in it. But everyone else who doesn't do more than surf the net and write Word documents and spreadsheets and email should just get a Mac. It will just work. And I will be left in peace to tinker with my high-maintenance sports-car of a PC that is as high maintenance as David Beckham's groupies.

 

[Carlo_M]

A-frickin'-men Max!

Seriously, I understand that most of us Windows power users don't get this type of thing. And if you are only dealing with your own PC, and you're a power user, then everything is A-OK for you.

But like you said, when I fix my relatives' PCs (a few of which I put together so I feel obligated to fix it even though they did something to break it), or worse, when I troubleshoot the 12 work PCs that I am the tech contact for, it really saps my energy nowadays.

I remember years ago when I first really got versed in Windows, troubleshooting was "cool". You were doing something most others couldn't. You felt useful, smart, etc. It was You vs. the PC and you won (most of the time).

Now it's like "Great...another frickin' virus/spyware/malware/driver/corrupt registry problem...well F!@#$ me! There goes another few hours of my life..."

So despite owning and/or using 4 WinPCs to my 1 Mac, I've grown to love the simplicity and security of my Macbook Pro. And I wish that the office-required software we used did work with OSX, because I would recommend to the head manager a switch. And she is the one with the most computer problems, and when she saw me working on my MBP, she said "oh that's great...I wish we could move the whole office to Apple..."

As it is, she's already making plans to buy a Macbook Pro to replace the 3 year old IBM Thinkpad she has that's due for replacement.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

To be fair that's not totally an OS issue but a programming problem on the games. I don't know if the new user accounts in Vista will open up enough resources etc to allow these types of apps to be installed by a none admin user but we'll see.

 

[Bob_Chase]

Way to go Joe. Now don't forget to add in the software that comes installed on these boxes. I want the total package...

 

[Andrew Pratt]

I just ordered a new notebook and honestly I was ' ' close to buying a MacBookPro. Cost wise the MBP was within $100 of the Asus W3J I'm getting for a very similar machine so it wasn't a cost issue. What eventually tipped the scale in favor of the Asus was just that I can't seem to break away from living in an windows world. I did some research and found a few different freeware/commercial apps that I could get to do what I do on XP but there were still a few missing...plus all my 'work' life has to be on Windows and I often bring it in when I'm busy. Still I'm going to do some reading up on what it'll take to make OSX run on my notebook and see about dual booting it as I've seen benchmarks from OSX on a WinTel box so I know its possible.

 

[Thomas Newton]

Getting a Mac notebook.

Sounds like you had the chance, and cost wasn't the issue, and the ability to run Windows apps at full speed wasn't even the issue (since the MBP is Intel-based).

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

You should have gone for the MacBookPro in that case. The new Macs are built on Intel CPU's and Apple even more or less officially supports booting their machines with Windows XP. You could have easily set up a dual boot system with their "Boot camp" thing.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

Just to inject some more reality here about how Macs are supposedly that much more secure than Windows boxes:

http://www.itweek.co.uk/vnunet/news/...security-flaws - yes, that is 26 flaws patched, but the point is there were 26 flaws. How many undiscovered ones are there?

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/secur...60_seco_1.html - Hacking a MacBook in 60 seconds or less

Yes, they are a bit safer, primarily because you aren't always running as Administrator (in Windows you pretty much have to - heck, most games and just about all online games demand full admin access in order to even work) but they aren't even nearly indestructable. They are just slightly harder to hack, and since there are (relatively speaking) so few of them, few virus writers and crackers bother to attack them. Yet.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

kimmo, who is sugggesting macs are indestructable?

this is such a tired argument, and it's not the first time you've used it (without defending it). but let's talk about YOUR reasoning.

approximate numbers, but accurate according to most sources i could find
windows - 60,000 viruses
mac - 50 viruses
unix/linux - 50 viruses
-------------------------
total viruses - 60,100
windows virus share 60,000/60,100 99.83% (90% market share)
mac virus share 50/60,100 0.00083% (5% market share)
unix/linux virus share 50/60,100 0.00083% (5% market share)

so kimmo, wouldnt you think that since mac has a 5% market share, they would have a 5% share in total viruses? since you will say that most virus writers dont care about mac, how can you explain such a discrepancy? even if virus writers didnt care as much about mac, you'd expect to see a relatively close number to 5%, even maybe 1% or 0.5%, but macs have less than a thousanth of a percent of the known viruses. what could explain such numbers? could it possibly be inherent security of a unix based system?

i see your reasoning, but once you actually look at the data, your argument fails.

CJ