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The General (1927) 4K restoration from camera negative (1 Viewer)

Alberto_D

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This new 4K digital restoration of The General (1927) looks incredible.

I know the lenses and film emulsions from 20's wasn't very high in definition, but looking these screen captures could perhaps makes us wonder if could worth a 4K Blu Ray HDR.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-General-Blu-ray/184984/#Screenshots

If I'm right, the film now have two well restored versions, from A and B camera negativers, digitally cleaned-up, since Kino Lorber also had a digitally restoration despite use less stellar film elements.
 

Stephen_J_H

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I know the lenses and film emulsions from 20's wasn't very high in definition, but looking these screen captures could perhaps makes us wonder if could worth a 4K Blu Ray HDR.
While a 4K disc is a great idea, doing an HDR pass is ultimately fruitless, as there would be no additional contrast range gleaned from the element.
 

PMF

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MoC and 4K? For this, I would gladly pay The General admission price, again.:)
 

Alberto_D

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I would agree with you if it was a dupe or a contrast print, but a camera negative, even from 20's, can handle more dynamic range than standart video signal of today. It would not be as impressive as movies shot with advanced digital cameras, but still better than standart video.

While a 4K disc is a great idea, doing an HDR pass is ultimately fruitless, as there would be no additional contrast range gleaned from the element.
 

Rodney

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Is this something I would enjoy? Damfino!

Alberto, where did you get the information that this was from the camera negative?
 

bigshot

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Does anyone have the running time of this release? The old Kino version was at 24fps and ran 74 minutes, but the original cue sheets for the music from first release call for 26 fps and a 67 minute running time. I have the Spanish blu-ray of the Cohen restoration and it is 26fps interlaced clocking in at the shorter running time. Since this one claims to be 1080p and not 1080i, am guessing that it is the longer time and it runs at 24fps.

Rodney, this press release references the OCN. It's actually from a newly struck safety element off the negative. http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10387
 
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Jack Theakston

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Does anyone have the running time of this release? The old Kino version was at 24fps and ran 74 minutes, but the original cue sheets for the music from first release call for 26 fps and a 67 minute running time. I have the Spanish blu-ray of the Cohen restoration and it is 26fps interlaced clocking in at the shorter running time. Since this one claims to be 1080p and not 1080i, am guessing that it is the longer time and it runs at 24fps.

The cue sheet, by James Bradford, clocks in at 61.5 minutes, which at THE GENERAL's footage (7,500 feet) comes out to something like 121.5 feet per minute or 32 fps, which is definitely not right. There's something missing there or marked wrong in timing, but I've never compared it close enough to find out what.

For what it's worth, I ran a 35mm print several years ago at both 24 fps and 26 fps. 24 fps has a natural fluidity to it, which I think from a comic pacing is wrong. Titles also hold on the screen about half a beat longer than they should. 26 fps, as was recommended by who knows, did flow better, but I think 25 fps, which is in video spec, could also work.

Rodney, this press release references the OCN. It's actually from a newly struck safety element off the negative. http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10387

Correct. This restoration is from a fine grain (I don't know how new it is, but I was once told the OCN for either domestic or foreign version don't exist. Don't know if that's still true or not.)
 

bigshot

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The cue sheet, by James Bradford, clocks in at 61.5 minutes, which at THE GENERAL's footage (7,500 feet) comes out to something like 121.5 feet per minute or 32 fps, which is definitely not right. There's something missing there or marked wrong in timing, but I've never compared it close enough to find out what.

26 fps, as was recommended by who knows, did flow better, but I think 25 fps, which is in video spec, could also work.

I was once told the OCN for either domestic or foreign version don't exist. Don't know if that's still true or not.)

David Shepherd once said that the cue sheet said 26.
25 might work, but the Spanish Cohen is at 26 and it looks incredible. Super real.
Cohen owns the OCN, but it may be too precious to run through a scanner. (just a guess)
 

Alberto_D

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Rodney, a modern fine grain duplicate emulsion (for B&W) can hold virtually all the information from a camera negative, specially a old negative like from 20's. But it require to be very carefully prepared, in a modern film printer (step contact printer), and very well developed.
It's quite different a fine grain from 1943, shot in not ideal printer, compared to a modern fine grain shot very well in a great printer.
Fine grain master can vary quite a lot, depending of how well it was made. I remamber the case about the restoration of a silent film where a original print was better than the fine grain. Lost Horizon (1'937) had a fine grain master, but it was developed with some problem and thye prefered to use a original print as the "main body" of the restoration.

Of course there are few cases with warped films and very scratch films, that can be a serious problem for duplication, since most wetgate can add some softness to the image, and many film printer have trouble with warped flms.
I imagined a solution for this, but would be a slow process, frame by frame, and in modern world "time is money" in almost a dictatorship level.
 
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