The Galaxy S6 Edge is stunning (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

Who ever said that? You really need to stop thinking in absolutes, the world isn't as binary as you want to believe. I never said anything remotely like that and Apple sure didn't, they had been testing bigger screens for at least 4 years before they ever put one on the market. Why didn't they do so sooner?

Battery Life

Display Quality

Developer Resources

1 handed use


All of which were much more important to their customers than a bigger screen was. When they were able to deliver a bigger screen while ameliorating those other issues, they did. They perfectly handed 3 of the 4 and for most people the 1 handed use 'solution' was pretty good, and for customers like me who remained disappointed with it Apple let the device's other merits speak for itself. You are never going to make everyone happy but if you actually think about the device holistically and not just shove new features in every year because you can you'll do pretty good.


And I said just that before I personally went to a bigger phone myself, that fixing those first 3 issues were more important to most users than pocketability or 1 handed use. I noted that bigger screens would be major boons to those with less than perfect eyesight and those who needed asian language character support. It's all about tradeoffs.


It's a very dangerous trap to remain beholden to your most vocal users, even the smart and tuned in ones. How many Note users are outspoken about the genius of the pen input? Would you be surprised that over 80% of note users have NEVER used the pen?

https://theoverspill.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/samsung-knows-how-many-replacement-batteries-it-sells-which-is-why-the-s6-doesnt-have-one/


Users are gonna bitch about everything, even me. But it's what they actually do or buy in the face of design decisions where things get interesting.

 

[RobertR]

Who ever said that?

Apple's Steve Jobs: 'no one's going to buy' a big phone


In response to a question at its press conference today about whether Apple could've done anything to avoid its antenna issues with the iPhone 4, Steve took the opportunity to rip on bigger rivals, saying that making a phone so big "you can't get your hand around it" helps, but that "no one's going to buy that." We're assuming he's likely talking about the latest crop of 4-, 4.3- and 5-inch phones that include the Galaxy S series, the EVO 4G, Droid X, and Dell Streak, even going so far as to call them "Hummers" (we take it you don't ever drive a Hummer, Steve?). Though ripping on the competition is to be expected, perhaps the more interesting takeaway here is that we can't realistically expect an iPhone much bigger than the 3.5-inch display they use today -- presumably that'll all be reserved for iPad territory going forward.


When Steve Jobs introduced the very first iPhone, he said, “We’ve designed something wonderful for your hand, just wonderful.” That was a phone with a 3.5-inch screen, a small enough to be held and operated with the fingers on one hand. He insisted that the company had designed the perfectly proportioned gadget, even as rivals running Google’s (GOOG) Android operating system began rolling out bigger phones. “You can’t get your hand around it,” Jobs harrumphed over the inferior products. “No one’s going to buy that.”

Of course, the size managed to creep up from "something wonderful for your hand, just wonderful":

Apple landed on just the right size when it came up with its 4-inch screen for the iPhone 5, according to company CEO Tim Cook.


"We've put a lot of thinking into screen size and we think we've picked the right one," Cook said when quizzed about Apple developing larger screened phones during Cupertino's earnings call today.

The above quotes don't say a damn thing about "battery life" or "display quality". It was ALL about "fitting the thumb", as seen here:


http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/09/the-iphone-5-ad-that-apple-wants-you-to-forget/


Saying that the iphone 6 plus "solves" the "one handed issue" implies that Apple somehow crammed a large screen into a smaller phone than large Android phones. Of course, it does no such thing. The LG G3 is almost 12 mm shorter, and 3 mm narrower than the plus, and has the same screen size, as well as higher pixel density.


NONE of the screen size changes had anything to do with the fact that phones with large screens sell well, did they Sam?


http://9to5mac.com/2014/04/06/why-apple-has-to-make-bigger-screen-iphones-in-its-own-confidential-internal-slides/

 

[Sam Posten]

I'm not sure which models you are quoting, comparing 5.5 inch screens alone the Note2 is 5.95x3.17x.37 versus the 6+ at 5.44x2.64x.27 inches and 180 vice 172g per wilkipedia, which I am taking on faith is correct. Surely the newer notes are slimmer but that's not what is up for debate. At the time Jobs said those things that was the state of the art for monster sized phones and Samsung had some success selling them despite/because of their size, they also marketed them as pen-first devices. Apple released bigger phones when they had the tech to deliver retina quality screens in bulk, at moderate markup, with terrific battery performance and as finger first/only devices. Samsung released 3 years earlier and they got to be first, with the tradeoffs that entailed.


I've held a note 2 and it wouldn't be my choice for hand or pocket. The 6+ is a big screen bundled in a small enough package with enough juice to last me 3 days on a charge. Slimming down everything else helps make that big screen shine and Apple was able to do so without sacrificing battery. Win/win except for 1 handed use and that was a sacrifice that I could live with.

 

[RobertR]

I'm not sure which models you are quoting

You seem very Samsung-centric. Read again what I said: LG G3. Don’t know how you missed that.

Apple released bigger phones when they had the tech to deliver retina quality screens in bulk, at moderate markup, with terrific battery performance and as finger first/only devices.

The point is you implied no one ever said such a thing, and I showed proof that they DID. And the Apple ad said NOTHING about “battery life” or “resolution”. Jobs’ statement and the ad CLEARLY show that it was ALL about “fitting the thumb”. Don’t try to revise history.

 

[Hanson]

Battery Life - Nope. iPhone 6 is one of the worst flagships in this regard.
Display Quality - Eh. The ppi of iPhone screens are old fashioned at this point. They are outperformed by every Android flagship.
Developer Resources - Done, although this wasn't that big of a deal considering the 16:9 resolution of the iPhone 5 happened without any hand wringing.
1 handed use - Nope. They have a kludge to access the back button, but it's a kludge. This wasn't a problem with Android because they have always had a dedicated back button at the bottom of the screen.

As Robert pointed out, the LG G3 has a 5.5" screen and is still mostly one handed use whereas the two handed 6+ looks comically huge in comparison. But with the exact same screen size.

 

[Sam Posten]

The G3 was launched in May of 2014, a mere 6 months before the Plus and 2 years after that Jobs quote.


It has sold in the millions we are expected to believe but since LG doesn't release sales numbers it is hard to gauge if it is even in the same ballpark as Samsung's note 2 and later successes. I have no reliable way to measure who is selling the most phones market wide, but then again I'm on record as discounting market share as a true indicator of success anyway. My only metric is mindshare and what I see my friends and family using, by that I can't seem to recall seeing a single LG phone recently and a ton of Galaxies, so there's my bias if you want it.


Oh and your specs appear to be off, it's 5.76x2.94x.35 so larger than the 6+ in all 3 dimensions. What am I missing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_G3


Again, I haven't followed the G3 but the Screen has some pretty mixed reviews according to the wiki:

The G3's display was praised for having good color reproduction, brightness, and viewing angles, with Engadget noting that its 1440p sample content "[looked] pin-sharp and beautifully recreated." However, critics were mixed on whether the display provided any sufficient advantages or difference in quality over a 1080p display for everyday use, also given that content optimized for the resolution was not yet readily available. Ars Technica showed further concern over the display's potential effects on battery usage, and argued that the Samsung Galaxy S5 had a better contrast ratio and was easier to see outdoors.[9][27][28] The use of software edge enhancement on display contents was also criticized by users for its effects on text rendering.[29]

 

[RobertR]

The G3 was launched in May of 2014, a mere 6 months before the Plus and 2 years after that Jobs quote.

Again, the point is you claimed no one at Apple EVER said such a thing, and I showed that they DID.

Oh and your specs appear to be off, it's 5.76x2.94x.35 so larger than the 6+ in all 3 dimensions. What am I missing?

This:


http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_g3-6294.php


https://www.apple.com/iphone-6/specs/


Explain how 158.1 x 77.8 x 7.1 is smaller than 146.3 x 74.6 x 8.9 in "all 3 dimensions".

 

[Sam Posten]

Battery Life - Nope. iPhone 6 is one of the worst flagships in this regard.

I don't comparison shop specs Hanson but that doesn't track with anything I've read, at least regarding the 6+.... The 6 isn't really a flagship, is it?

If there’s one area where the iPhone 6 Plus stands out, and is streets ahead of the iPhone 6, it is battery life. The 2,915mAh battery packs enough juice to let the iPhone 6 Plus last two full days of reasonable use with the screen set to 50% brightness. Whack the brightness up though and that big, bright 5.5-inch screen will start sucking up the juice.

That’s far longer than the LG G3’s 3,000mAh battery can last and it bests the Samsung Galaxy Note 3, too.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/iphone-6-plus-review-battery-life-and-verdict-page-6

Re the 6:

Our video test, where we loop SD video until the phone dies, lasted ten hours, an hour more than the iPhone 5S but one less than the Galaxy S5 manages. In terms of 3D gaming the iPhone 6 managed two hours and thirty five minutes of non-stop action - an hour less than the Galaxy S5 and 6 Plus.

In real world testing we found the iPhone 6's battery lasted 35 hours of low mixed usage (including standby) and 14 hours of heavy usage, with the brightness set to 50%.

All this means that you can eek two days of life out of it if you're very careful, but on most days you'll head home after work with between 30-60% of your battery left depending on how much you use it.

BUT:
One major positive about the battery is that it charges very quickly. You get 31% from a 30 minute charge and it charges fully in two hours exactly.



A feature Samsung didn't implement until the S6, does LG still lack it? That's the kinda thing I'm talking about when I say real features that matter to consumers, not just new stuff tossed in...

 

[Sam Posten]

Again, the point is you claimed no one at Apple EVER said such a thing, and I showed that they DID.
Explain how 158.1 x 77.8 x 7.1 is smaller than 146.3 x 74.6 x 8.9 in "all 3 dimensions".

You are being obtuse dude. Jobs never said nobody would ever buy a bigger phone, he was referencing as Engadget notes "the latest crop". And those phones clearly had drawbacks that did not fit in with the Apple ethos and EVEN AT THAT TIME Apple was investigating ways to build bigger screens that fit well in your hand. They engineered solutions that did and that took them time.


And yes, it seems Wikipedia had 2 wrong dimensions, shocker. So Lg has a smaller big screen 6 months before the 6+, ok. It had other tradeoffs too, including battery life which I noted above. If that works for you: GREAT.

 

[RobertR]

You are being obtuse dude. Jobs never said nobody would ever buy a bigger phone

The exact quote is:

In response to a question at its press conference today about whether Apple could've done anything to avoid its antenna issues with the iPhone 4, Steve took the opportunity to rip on bigger rivals, saying that making a phone so big "you can't get your hand around it" helps, but that "no one's going to buy that."

Yet AGAIN, there's NOTHING in that statement that says anything whatsoever about "technical limitations" or the "state of the art". He was talking about phone size in relation to the size of the hand. Period. It's amazing that you try to deny this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99m7lebirE

And yes, it seems Wikipedia had 2 wrong dimensions, shocker.

No, they got the dimensions right (they match the gsmarena specs). You read them wrong.

 

[Hanson]

Sam, this is the LG G3 lined up against the iPhone 6+. Same sized screen, but the 6+ is huge in comparison.

 

[Hanson]

I don't comparison shop specs Hanson but that doesn't track with anything I've read, at least regarding the 6+.... The 6 isn't really a flagship, is it?



http://www.trustedreviews.com/iphone-6-plus-review-battery-life-and-verdict-page-6

Re the 6:





BUT:
One major positive about the battery is that it charges very quickly. You get 31% from a 30 minute charge and it charges fully in two hours exactly.



A feature Samsung didn't implement until the S6, does LG still lack it? That's the kinda thing I'm talking about when I say real features that matter to consumers, not just new stuff tossed in...

For starters, yes, the iPhone 6 is the flagship phone. Are you saying the 6+ is the true flagship and the much more popular phone is the little brother? I think you have it inverted for argument's sake.


The iPhone 6 may charge to 100% in 2 hours, but that's mostly due to the fact that it battery is 2/3 the size. Here's comparison chart of battery life and charge times:

Even the S5 charges faster than the iPhone 6, and it has a 50% larger battery. Here's a link to the actual article from Phonearena (not some Android fansite in case you're wondering):


http://www.phonearena.com/news/Our-Samsung-Galaxy-S6-edge-battery-life-test-shows-flagship-worthy-endurance_id67631


My point in was, the 4.3" and 5.5" screens were a reaction to market pressures, not because they "solved" something. That's a bunch of self-justifying bullshit.

 

[Sam Posten]

Look, you want to believe that Steve said that in a vacuum and then Apple went and developed the 6 and 6 plus immediately after that against his judgement, you can. You can read into the marketing whatever you like. Certainly there are dozens of articles calling it short sighted or dishonest, which is fine too. Doesn't track with me but you're welcome to that if you wanna be belligerent about it and hold grudges against a corporate entity.


You can also think about it in terms of a head fake, Steve was famous for flip flopping on things he said adamantly. I don't think so, but it's not ridiculous.


The more reasonable, to me, viewpoint is that the whole experience matters, and that includes physical dimensions as well as tactile reach and feel. I'm with you on that, and think that the 3.5" reach and feel is better on the whole and remind you that Apple is still selling millions of 3.5" phones this year. Again I don't have numbers to back it up but I'm certain that Apple will sell more year old 3.5" phones this year than many vendors will sell phones total. Maybe Apple will make a fully modern 3.5" in the future and maybe they won't, neither choice would surprise me tbh.


But discounting the -other- parts of the 6/6+ design because of the sacrifice of that 'perfect' ratio of hand to thumb is pretty hard core.

 

[Sam Posten]

Yes, in my mind the 6+ is the Flagship phone and the 6 is the mass market phone. You wouldn't ding a top end BMW flagship car just because the lower tier models sell in much greater quantity, would you? I'm not the dictator of how these things are measured it's just what seems natural to me.


And yes, cool, the iPhone in that picture looks huge next to the LG. cool. Good on them! Good design work I guess! I applaud advances on all fronts. I'm interested in the tradeoffs they made to get that size. They've removed all physical buttons from the front, interesting choice, Android has has a contentious relationship with the physical back/home buttons over the years. It's a tradeoff. I've seen rumors that Apple might do that next, not sure if I'd like it or not, not sure how they could do so and keep TouchID working but it sounds interesting.

 

[RobertR]

Look, you want to believe that Steve said that in a vacuum and then Apple went and developed the 6 and 6 plus immediately after that against his judgement, you can. You can read into the marketing whatever you like. Certainly there are dozens of articles calling it short sighted or dishonest, which is fine too.

Short sighted fits. So does a certain arrogance that I've always seen in Apple and some of their more zealous supporters. "Follow market trends? How dare anyone suggest that WE would do anything as gauche as that! We dictate trends".


Well guess what: They ARE following market trends, and no amount of tap dancing changes that fact.

You can also think about it in terms of a head fake,

The only people he could have been faking out are his own employees, because Android phone makers went about their merry way making larger screens.

 

[Hanson]

I'm interested in the tradeoffs they made to get that size. They've removed all physical buttons from the front, interesting choice, Android has has a contentious relationship with the physical back/home buttons over the years. It's a tradeoff. I've seen rumors that Apple might do that next, not sure if I'd like it or not, not sure how they could do so and keep TouchID working but it sounds interesting.

Actually Sam, onscreen navigation buttons are part of native Android design language and have been since 4.0. Samsung is the only major Android OEM hanging on to physical buttons.

 

[Sam Posten]

Cool, I thought many still had the physical home button despite jettisoning the back one a while back, as I said I don't see many non samsung androids these days and don't follow the millions of me too products out there. I knew the cheapy chinese phones have gotten big market share but I really havent followed LG. So those without physical home buttons can't have fingerprint readers at all, guess that's not an issue?

 

[Hanson]

Samsung is the only major OEM with a fingerprint scanner. Android doesn't have an official fingerprint scanner API (they are working on it but eventually pulled it from the Nexus 6), so anything you can do with it on the S6 is all Samsung hacks. But even a phone without a dedicated home button can still have a fingerprint reader. For instance, LG moved the volume and power buttons to the back of the phone under the camera since the G2:

You could stash a fingerprint reader on the power button using your index print.

 

[Sam Posten]

Thanks for the info, that seems incredibly wonky. I am a huge fan of Apple Pay, mostly as secure confirmation of credit card charges come to my phone more than actual paying with my phone, and was incredibly surprised at how Apple both co-opted existing infrastructure to get it to work and the fact that 'it just works' over NFC to start with. I gotta believe Google desire to support something similar ecosystem wide.

 

[Hanson]

It's puzzling that Samsung won't be launching Samsung Pay until the summer. But the potential is great because in addition to NFC, the S6 has Magnetic Secure Transmission that will allow it to be used with magnetic swipe readers. The trouble with NFC is the lack of good penetration. MST allows you to interact with well over 90 of vendors if you're into that sort of thing. What handicapped Google's push for NFC has been low adoption rates by vendors as well as Android OEMs.

And lest you think Samsung Pay is a copy of Apple Pay, Samsung had been working on their system with a partner until that company was bought out by...Apple.