The Fugitive: Season 4 Vol. 2 (1 Viewer)

[Sam Favate]

I thought the news item about CBS being sued was appropriate for this thread. We've been discussing this for a while now, and Harry was pointing out the kind of things on the minds of folks who make these decisions. However, Gary's also correct in saying that it was just laziness or ineptitude or both on behalf of CBS for preventively reacting to the Fugitive the way they did, since there was no need. I think everyone here has offered good commentary, and I'm glad to have it.

 

[Harry-N]

Originally Posted by Jeff Willis
However, Gary's also correct in saying that it was just laziness or ineptitude or both on behalf of CBS for preventively reacting to the Fugitive the way they did, since there was no need.

Emphasis mine. There was no need? There were music cues in the series beginning in the second season whose rights-holders were not identifiable. To blindly go ahead and use them could have left CBS open to just what happened to them with the stupid Texaco song in FAMILY TIES. I think there was definitely a need for some kind of action. The action they originally chose was 100% wrong, and they later fixed it to the satisfaction of some and the consternation of others.


Yes, it's a crying shame that some CBS-owned cues got nuked in the re-done and later issues, some of which were even Rugolo cues. I'd love to have those fixed, but it's a bit late now. Those of us who are not of advancing years, will perhaps have to wait for another go-round of some kind.


I feel that my post has just as much right being in this thread as the numerous mentions of MY THREE SONS and ODD COUPLE stuff did in the FUGITIVE threads that preceeded this one. The article was succinct, to the point, and dealt with the very company responsible for THE FUGITIVE debacle.


There - I feel better now.


Harry

 

[Gary OS]

Originally Posted by Harry-N
However, Gary's also correct in saying that it was just laziness or ineptitude or both on behalf of CBS for preventively reacting to the Fugitive the way they did, since there was no need.

Emphasis mine. There was no need? There were music cues in the series beginning in the second season whose rights-holders were not identifiable. To blindly go ahead and use them could have left CBS open to just what happened to them with the stupid Texaco song in FAMILY TIES. I think there was definitely a need for some kind of action. The action they originally chose was 100% wrong, and they later fixed it to the satisfaction of some and the consternation of others.


Yes, it's a crying shame that some CBS-owned cues got nuked in the re-done and later issues, some of which were even Rugolo cues. I'd love to have those fixed, but it's a bit late now. Those of us who are not of advancing years, will perhaps have to wait for another go-round of some kind.

[/QUOTE]

Harry, my main issue with your explanation of the situation is that you are downplaying the amount of CBS cues that were expunged, probably because you think the Rugolo is the heart and soul of the series and the rest of the backscore wasn't as important. But regardless of why you are doing it, the fact is it's just not a fair representation of what happened with this show. For instance, its not a fair characterization to say "some CBS-owned cues got nuked" as if it were only a few. The fact is MOST of the cues were replaced when it was unnecessary.


Jon Burlingame said it perfectly in the Hollywood Reporter when this debacle first happened. I'll highlight the important portions of his terrific post:

Still, nearly all of the music for The Fugitive, especially in its first two years, came either from Rugolo's Fugitive-specific library or the then-licensed CBS Library. So why did CBS/Paramount replace all of the dramatic underscore for its second-season Fugitive package, especially since nearly all of the music is the same and it is all controlled (for Fugitive DVD purposes) by the CBS-Viacom empire?

The key lies in the cue sheets, those studio documents that list every piece of music in every episode, along with the names of the composer, publisher, duration and specifics about its use. They are prepared at the time the show goes on the air and are filed with ASCAP and BMI, the performing-rights societies that distribute music royalties to composers and publishers.

The cue sheets for The Fugitive, as it turns out, are unorthodox. Instead of the usual cue-by-cue recitation of each piece of music used, the Fugitive cue sheets are organized by publisher, and the listed cues do not appear in chronological order.

For example, on the second-season episode "Escape Into Black," the cue sheet cites 19 uses of Rugolo music – as little as six seconds ("Fugitive Curtain No. 1") to as long as 63 seconds ("Fugitive Suspense") – and 42 instances of CBS Library music (including three by Herrmann, 13 by Goldsmith, 11 by Steiner and others by CBS stalwarts Rene Guerriguenc and Nathan Scott, among others). And a single instance of Capitol Library music (39 seconds, by Nick Carras). Total music in that episode: just over 35 minutes, according to the cue sheet.

Couple this with the fact that ownership of the music in the Capitol library is now in dispute, according to sources inside CBS/Paramount and within the music community outside. With different parties claiming ownership, there is no easy way (perhaps no way at all) to legally clear music from the Capitol library.

The high-ranking executive indicated that "all that is in question are the Capitol cues," but that "there was no way, from the cue sheets, that [the music department] could figure out which was Capitol and which was ours. It wasn't CBS being cheap. We were told legally that we didn't know what was what, and we had to change it."

This seemed strange to me at the time. Now that I've seen the cue sheets, I understand their problem. Unless one knows those shows – and more specifically that music – extremely well, a novice would have a hard time separating the Rugolo from the Goldsmith from the Steiner from the generically Capitol.

So CBS/Paramount took the extreme measure of stripping it all out and replacing it with a new library written by Mark Heyes (Grace Under Fire) with additional contributions by Sam Winans (Lizzie McGuire) and Ron Komie (The Amazing Race). Music editor Roy Braverman, who had "no comment" to queries about the new music, at one time wrote on his website that the new music was "in the style of" the 1960s scores. That is a matter of opinion. Heyes declined interview requests.

What happened between the DVD releases of season 1 and season 2 – two seasons, scored in exactly the same way – to force this issue? Did someone inside CBS/Paramount suggest an internal review and make a late-in-the-game discovery that the music situation was more complicated than anyone guessed? No one is talking now, so we may never know.

Also unanswered are questions about what it cost CBS/Par to locate the original video and audio elements in order to strip out the original music; to hire new composers to create generic dramatic music that would seem appropriate for a 44-year-old series; and digitally alter the end credits in every episode to reflect their contributions. Some estimates suggest it may have cost as much as $100,000.

[COLOR= rgb(255, 0, 0)]But here's the rub:[/COLOR] No matter how complicated this may have seemed to the executives at CBS/Paramount, the action they took – ruining one of the all-time classic TV dramas – was unnecessary. There are experts in Los Angeles who are intimately familiar with this music, among them music editor Ken Wilhoit, who performed all that detective work in the first place. And he's not the only one.

These people can instantly spot a Herrmann cue versus a Goldsmith cue, and could, with a few weeks and a little effort, correctly identify every piece of music in the second season of The Fugitive. And those [COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]very few [/COLOR]Capitol cues in dispute could easily be removed and replaced by generic music, salvaging the vast majority of original score for fans to enjoy.

Having made this terrible decision about the first half of season 2 – and having spent a great deal of money to unearth the original elements and pay for new music that was never necessary in the first place – it seems unlikely that we can expect that the second half of season 2 (assuming sales of the first half justify any further releases) will sound any different than the first.

So hang onto your VHS tapes of The Fugitive. It's the only way you'll be able to hear the series the way it was meant to be.

I rest my case. CBS did NOT have to expunge all that music. They owned over 95% of all the music ever played in a Fugitive episode. There was absolutely no need to do what they did.


Gary "ok, I feel better now too" O.

 

[Harry-N]

I'm not even sure what the frell we're arguing about here. We both agree that CBS mishandled the situation in THE FUGITIVE. I'm a little more forgiving of their correction and moves forward through Seasons 2 and 3 than you seem to be, but all in all, we both think that the company bungled the whole thing badly.


My peeve here is that you (and a few others) seem to somehow think that my post about the lawsuit for song use on FAMILY TIES is somehow irrelevant to this thread and topic. I maintain that it is QUITE relevant (capitalization for verbal emphasis, only) in that this is the EXACT situation CBS was trying to avoid with their music substitutions in THE FUGITIVE in the first place.


Why is that so hard to understand? Can you not place yourself, even for a moment, in the shoes of the people at the studio and see that all they were trying to do was release what the fans wanted without subjecting themselves to lawsuits from greedy rights-holders? Yes, they were boneheaded and proceeded blindly where they could have done a better job. But can you at least understand that my reference to the story above was only meant to show the situation from their point of view.


I was always taught to try to see things from different perspectives and both sides of an argument. It's made my life a lot less frantic and kept me on an even keel.


Mr. Burlingame's article is indeed well-written - and as a professional writer, it should be. I do not claim to be him, nor am I a professional writer. That being said, his article, quoted above was made after the first Season Two, Volume One release in the summer of 2008. And at that point, all that was on the market was the full-Heyes-substitution version of THE FUGITIVE. Much has happened since then, as you well know. CBS/Paramount re-issued the set free of charge to those of us who purchased their first issue. The re-instated a large percentage of the original cues (and I won't touch numbers for those percentages with a ten-foot pole). They satisfied me - they apparently did not satisfy you, Gary. So be it. They went on to release the next three volumes in the series, with some good results, some not-so-good. Some of us can deal with it, some of us can't. That's for the individual to decide.


My point about the Burlingame article is that it was written in that slice of time when all we had was one Heyes-filled set, and an uncertain future. His information on the situation as it existed is indeed definitive.


Now, getting this thread back on track, we're now less than a week away from the final release of THE FUGITIVE with Season 4, Volume 2, which will include the final two-parter that set records for broadcast television ratings when it originally aired. Though I've had a LaserDisc version of that episode for many years, I'm still looking forward to seeing it again all cleaned up and pristine. And there are some other episodes I'm looking forward to revisiting, not the least of which are two that I haven't seen since possible the '60s or maybe a rerun in the '70s. "There Goes The Ballgame" and "The Shattered Silence" are two that I missed in my VHS taping days, so they will be almost like new episodes for me.


I've preordered the set from Amazon, and if past performance is any guide, it'll probably take until next Friday for them to get it through the mail to here.

Harry

 

[Rick Thompson]

I agree with Harry. Enough of the CBS/Paramount bashing. Enough of the Mark Heyes bashing. Life is too short. "No mas!"

 

[Walsh61]

Two things here Harry:


#1) That set with all of the original underscore removed (that started the uproar) is STILL on the market AND is the only set available for people to buy. So Mr. Burlingame's article is still quite relevant. The article you inserted is not relevant because as Gary has pointed out again and again CBS owned nearly all of the music they removed. That wasn't the case with Family Ties. By their own admission CBS didn't want to take the time to identify the cues in question. Simply put - they were in a hurry and as a result they sold themselves and the fans short.


#2) The so called *fixed* sets issued thereafter were a poor attempt to quell the uproar and at the same time downplay the whole debacle by making a half hearted effort to restore the music that had been removed. That's the way I see it. Having said that let me say I've watched the first nine episodes of Volume Two of Season Four and so far I haven't detected any replacement music on this set. It appears CBS is ending this series on a high note and for that I'm grateful. They can do good work when they choose to and because of that they really SHOULD re-issue Seasons Two and Three in their proper form.

 

[Sam Favate]

Originally Posted by Walsh61
They can do good work when they choose to and because of that they really SHOULD re-issue Seasons Two and Three in their proper form.

If that ever happens, they damn well should provide exchanges for those of us who bought these originally and supported the title.

 

[jdee28]

For me, the CBS cues are just as important to The Fugitive as the Rugolo ones. Both should have been completely restored.


CBS/Paramount's decision with regards to the Fugitive has to be the most stupid business decision that a company has ever made with regards to TV on DVD. Just look at it from a purely business standpoint -- how much money would they have saved if they had just hired someone, a contractor outside the company, familiar with the music, to just go through the episodes and identify the score? Was an idea like that so out of the box for them, their corporate culture so stale and insulated that the idea to hire someone outside to put The Fugitive's music sheets in order just didn't occur to them or was considered too radical to proceed? Would any extra time that it took to do this really have crippled sales of future volumes? In hindsight, hiring the contractor would have been cheaper and definitely wouldn't have lost them the number of DVD sales for the series that the new music did. But I just don't see how this couldn't have been readily apparent to them at the time. It was just such a short-sighted, blundering error. Whoever was responsible for it should have been fired, from a purely business standpoint alone. Or if it was their corporate culture that was responsible for this mess, it should be completely reorganized and rethought.


And their so-called solution, with their re-issuing of Season 2, Volume 1, and their subsequent releases of the rest of Season 2 and Season 3, was none at all. It was half-hearted, lazy, and unacceptable. You'd think after the uproar, they'd just hire the contactor and go for a full restoration, but no, they had to try to get something out of their original investment for creating the new music, so we ended up with the "half original/ half new" score, poorly mixed and painful to the ears. Again, I suspect this "solution" was a purely economic decision on their part, to get something out of the money they spent on the new music. That's why they didn't go all the way for a full restoration. And thanks to this, we are left with one of the best series of all time with two of its seasons ruined on DVD.


The Fugitive fiasco (compounded with what they did to My Three Sons -- I guess the music sheets for that show weren't it order too?) has pretty much completely killed any feelings of respect, good will, or enthusiasm that I had for CBS/Paramount. Before I'd get anything they released right away, right when they released it, as a sign of support. Now, forget it; I'll get series I like, that haven't been altered, when they're on sale, but that's about it. I certainly haven't bothered picking up The Fugitive Season 4; maybe when it's in the discount bin, we'll see. Overall, the Fugitive fiasco has pretty much killed a lot of my enthusiasm for the TV on DVD genre. If you can't get a classic series like The Fugitive on DVD the way it was meant to be seen and heard, why bother?


If they ever go back and re-release Seasons 2 and 3 with the complete, proper score, making allowances for the Capitol cues, I'll change my tune. Until then, forget it.

 

[smithb]

Originally Posted by Sam Favate
They can do good work when they choose to and because of that they really SHOULD re-issue Seasons Two and Three in their proper form.

If that ever happens, they damn well should provide exchanges for those of us who bought these originally and supported the title.


[/QUOTE]

That's why it will never happen.

 

[Walsh61]

Originally Posted by Sam Favate
They can do good work when they choose to and because of that they really SHOULD re-issue Seasons Two and Three in their proper form.

If that ever happens, they damn well should provide exchanges for those of us who bought these originally and supported the title.


[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. A movie I bought several years ago may be re-released in blu-ray. If I want to upgrade my copy I buy it - again, without being provided with an exchange. A number of fans have expressed a willingness to buy again down the road if such an upgrade was made available with regards to this series. Perhaps in the future a blu-ray set of The Fugitive with the correct music might be produced. Who knows.

 

[stevelecher]

Originally Posted by Rick Thompson

I agree with Harry. Enough of the CBS/Paramount bashing. Enough of the Mark Heyes bashing. Life is too short. "No mas!"

I won't bash Mark Heyes. He was hired to do a job and did as he was told. CBS/P on the other hand, deserves bashing. As others here have just posted, they ruined many of the best episodes of one of the best series in history and they ruined them after they announced their replacement program. It is sad.


Some of you that can live with the bastardized episodes well, you have more tolerance than I do. I can't stand watching them and won't. I would pay, and pay a premium price, for repaired, perfect sets of Season 2 and 3. Maybe someday.


Steve Lecher

 

[LeoA]

I'll keep on bashing until things are done right with series like this and My Three Sons.

 

[phil*]

Originally Posted by LeoAmes

I'll keep on bashing until things are done right with series like this and My Three Sons.

The "right" thing to do with this series is, to release it, with all original music intact, on blu-ray 3D!

 

[ToddR2]

Agreed, Leo and Steve. CBS/Paramount deserve all the bashing they get for this and then some. Unnecessarily mutating a work of art deserves regular ridicule.

 

[DeWilson]

Originally Posted by stevelecher

I agree with Harry. Enough of the CBS/Paramount bashing. Enough of the Mark Heyes bashing. Life is too short. "No mas!"

I won't bash Mark Heyes. He was hired to do a job and did as he was told.


[/QUOTE]

...But not a good job! When you're re-scoring 1960's television shows, make it FEEL like a 1960's score!

 

[elec08]

I received the season 4, volume 2 set today. The first thing I noticed was in the episode descriptions on the inside of the DVD case, the description for "The Other Side of the Coin" misspells "Kimble" as "Kimball." No closed captions again, only subtitles, as was the case with season 4, volume 1. I'm going to pop in the first DVD now.

 

[Tina_H_V]

Originally Posted by elec08




I received the season 4, volume 2 set today. The first thing I noticed was in the episode descriptions on the inside of the DVD case, the description for "The Other Side of the Coin" misspells "Kimble" as "Kimball." No closed captions again, only subtitles, as was the case with season 4, volume 1. I'm going to pop in the first DVD now.

Actually, elec08, it looks as if CBS/P may be going this way with no closed captioning and only subtitling. Some DVD CC content cannot be acessed on certain HD/TV's via HDMI (particularly), so some studios may be opting towards subtitling as the only option rather than CC's or both. CBS/P also did this with Bilko's S1 as well: no CC, only subtitling.


I look to end the running on this fine TV series tomorrow by picking up S4, V2 locally tomorrow.

 

[Jack P]

That isn't the only goof in the episode descriptions. Pt. 2 of "The Judgement" has the goof of saying Gerard and Kimble are returning to "Illinois". It's Stafford, INDIANA!

 

[elec08]

They definitely should have checked their facts here.

 

[Joe Tor1]

I went to pick this up at Best Buy today, because I'm a Premiere Silver Member, and was told they weren't carrying it in store! Went to a neighboring Wal-Mart and no luck there either.

So, just now, I ordered it from Amazon. Is THIS what the retail market is coming to?

Anyway, I just completed Season One Volume One -- and have enjoyed that immensely. I'm also at various points in S1V2, S2V1, and S4V1.

Thanks to the folks in this thread, Gary, Steve, and the rest, for getting me into this great series.