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The Fugitive: Season 4 Vol. 2 (1 Viewer)

Joe Tor1

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I have what may seem to be a dumb or annoyingly repetitive question for veterans of THE FUGITIVE threads, but here goes…


I recently bought, Season Four Volume One out of curiosity – and that people like Harry N, whose tastes seem to parallel my own, are fans of the show. I’ve seen about 2/3 of the set, enjoy it, and plan to get the final volume.


My question concerns the justified uproar over the music replacement. Before I consider getting previous volumes, please let me know the following…


Are the music replacements on ALL previous volumes, or just some of them? If so, which ones to get or avoid?


Does the replacement music SOUND LIKE “sixties TV scoring” (Anyone who enjoys sixties TV will understand what I mean!), or does it sound inappropriately modern? Or just “non-sixties”?


I’m thinking that if I can enjoy OUTER LIMITS scoring on some of these episodes (worked well for THE INVADERS, but I had to be convinced on a show like this), I might be able to tolerate faux-sixties scoring as well. If it’s good and sixties-sounding – just not what everyone’s ear is used to; I might not notice the difference, having never seen the originals. And, at least I can enjoy prior episodes of the series.


Thanks in advance for the info!
 

Gary OS

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Joe, here's my thoughts on the sets:


1) The first season sets (volumes 1 & 2) had almost no music replacement at all and are excellent. None of the backscores were lifted, only an ocassional juke box tune or live band at a party musical number. So the first season is a no-brainer. Buy it without reservations or fears if you haven't already.


2) There's simply a huge disagreement between Fuge fans on this board when it comes to the replacements. Some, like Harry or David, don't mind the Heye's insertions that much as long as the Rugolo backscore is untouched. And that's basically what you have with all the Season 2 and Season 3 volumes - Rugolo's work remains, but some of the CBS Library and Capitol Library cues are replaced by Heyes. Many of us don't think the Rugolo cues alone were the heart and soul of the series. We think that while the Rugolo was very important, so were the CBS and Capitol cues. Therefore just having the Rugolo score reinserted back onto the dvds wasn't enough to satisfy us. As I said, you have two very distinct camps here as it concerns that issue.


3) When Heyes is inserted, it's wildly inconsistent in terms of volume (in many instances it's way too loud) and mood (sometimes it's not too bad, but most of the time it doesn't really match up with the 60's feel of the series).


Bottom line: It looks like Seasons 1 and 4 will be solid releases, but Seasons 2 and 3 will forever be ruined for many of us here at HTF. I think Season 3 is a bit more tainted with Heyes than Season 2, if that helps any. I've not gone through the episodes from those two seasons second by second to list all the replacements so I can't say for sure if one volume is much better than another. But my general take is that Season Three suffered the most from the Heyes cues (this of course assumes you get the redone Season 2 discs which reinserted the Rugolo score - if for some reason you get a hold of the first run release of S2 then you'll be horrified because it's all Heyes).

This really has been a confusing issue and it's understandable if people forget what's what with each release. Heck, I can't even keep up with it. The only thing I know is that some episodes were completely unmolested (like the Tuesday Weld ep from Season 2) and others were disasters (where Heyes is seemingly around every turn).


Gary "season one is the best of the bunch, IMHO, from a storytelling point - get both volumes of that season if you haven't already" O.
 

smithb

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To add just a little to Gary's post:


From reviews on Amazon, as recent as this past Fall, it would appear that the Season 2, Vol 1 set being sold is still the one with ALL the Rugolo replaced. It does not appear at least that the replacement sets were ever put into the main stream. And at the time, CBS even referenced it as a limited time offer that is now long gone. Now it is possible they are still selling old stock and once gone the replacement sets will start showing up, but I wouldn't count on it.


The season 1 volumes appear to be selling for a decent price on Amazon right now at around the $15 a piece mark. So if you want to see how it all began this is a pretty good time to go back and get that season to go along with season 4.
 

Jack P

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Altogether, the replacement S2 V1 and S3 V1 had the least amount of replacement music overall percentage wise while the V2 sets for S2 and S3 seemed to have more overall. Ratios were always at the 50% or better mode for intact music with the most notable exception being the S3 finale "Coralee" which had almost 90% of the music replaced except for two tiny Rugolo cues.
 

ChrisALM

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I have seen a few of the The Fugitive Season 1 Volume 1 sets at Big Lots for $6.00.
 

Joe Tor1

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Thank you Gary, Brad, and Jack!


Like “Harry”, you all are also names I trust to steer me right.


To recap: I SHOULD get the two First Season Volumes without question. As with many such shows of the era, the First Season will contain many of the better episodes – and little or no music replacement. I can certainly live with a juke box tune being replaced, if that’s mostly the extent of it.


In S2 and S3, Pete Rugolo did original scores that were supplemented by Capital music – and it was replaced by new Mark Heyes scores without regard to what was what.


This was mitigated with reissue discs, but… the danger is that, if I were to order from Amazon, I stand an excellent chance of getting the Heyes music replacement discs and not the reissue.


NOW… Is there anywhere I am assured of getting the proper reissue? Or do I take my chances… knowing my chances aren’t good?


Further question, regarding Heyes: I know everyone will have different views on this but – not having an ear for what the cues are supposed to be – will I really be irritated by the Heyes cues? Or are they somehow “acceptable” for a sixties show, even if they aren’t “right”?


By this I mean… If STAR TREK TOS were to have its music replaced, certain scores from VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA (particularly from Season Two) might be “acceptable” to those who had not developed an ear for what TOS should sound like. It would still sound like a sixties sci-fi adventure show.


However, if the cues from STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION were used for TOS, it wouldn’t be “acceptable” for TOS, because it is not “sixties-sounding”.


Does that help frame my question regarding Heyes? Is his work “acceptable”, even if it is not “right”? Or is it totally inappropriate for this show? I’m really interested in your answers.


Thanks in advance.
 

Gary OS

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tor1

Further question, regarding Heyes: I know everyone will have different views on this but – not having an ear for what the cues are supposed to be – will I really be irritated by the Heyes cues? Or are they somehow “acceptable” for a sixties show, even if they aren’t “right”?


Is his work “acceptable”, even if it is not “right”? Or is it totally inappropriate for this show? I’m really interested in your answers.


Thanks in advance.


Joe, this is a great and important question. To be brutally honest, I'm not sure anyone can give you a completely unbiased answer. All I can say is that the Heyes music didn't bother me only because it was replacing a backscore I really enjoyed. It bothered me because it felt very out of place. It did NOT sound like 60's music to me. Of course, that's a completely subjective comment on my part, and I freely admit such. But I stand by it nonetheless.

Gary "you summarized the situation perfectly, Joe" O.
 

Jack P

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I have to concur that the replacement music did not sound like 60s TV music. When synths come in, that is not 60s music. And there was also the matter of how in an action sequence he would just BLAST, BLAST, BLAST to the point where it distracted from the scene. The only time his music worked was for quieter moments of drama and synths weren't part of it.


Alas, you can't get the corrected S2 V1 any longer. It was only made available by mail from Paramount with a proof of purchase tag from the Heyes set. You'd have to find someone offering it used on Amazon or elsewhere.
 

Joe Tor1

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I think you’ve answered my questions. Get the two first season volumes without question and, if I dare, take my chances with seasons 2 and 3.


If there are “[COLOR= #181818]synths[/COLOR]”, it CANNOT sound like a sixties show – and that will grate on me, even though I’ve never heard a note of the original scores – much less have them embedded in my brain, as dedicated fans are wont to do.


THAT is really a shame – and full justification for the outrage I’ve been reading.


If you ARE going to do music replacement – and I can accept that there are reasons for doing so – why not commission something that would, at least, make an APPROPRIATE replacement? I can’t imagine that there isn’t anyone who could approximate the sixties sounds of Pete Rugolo, Dominic Frontieri, Jerry Goldsmith, Alexander Courage, Leith Stevens, Gerald Fried, etc. and make SOME attempt at even Faux-authenticity.
 

Joe Tor1

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Based on all your comments, I've just ordered Season 1 Volumes 1 and 2 -- for 13.99 and 14.99 from Amazon! I'll decide on the others later on! Thanks!
 

stevelecher

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Joe:


After Season 1, you will be so hooked you'll have to order additional sets. Season 1 is so much better than Season 4 you are watching now and Season 2 and most of Season 3 maintained the excellent quality. Season 4 actually is the one most of us rate poorly. If I had no choice I would order Season 2, Volume 1 even if it's all Heyes, though you will be annoyed. The stories are first class. Maybe you could then write to CBS for a replacement copy. I would. Season 3, Volume 1 has very little replacement music and will be very acceptable to someone who's not seen the episodes. Volumes 2 of Seasons 2 and 3 are more troublesome but they will be worth getting because a lot of music is original and still, the episodes are so outstanding. Write back on this site as you get these boxes and report your reactions to them. I look forward to hearing reports.


Steve Lecher
 

Joe Tor1

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Steve: I have no doubt you are correct. I look forward to enjoying at least the first season before I complete the 4th next month. Your endorsement makes me feel better (though far form fully, if there are Synths in the score) about S2 and 3.
 

Gary OS

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Joe, I have no doubt you're going to love the first season. It's spectacular as far as I'm concerned. If I can offer a suggestion, I'd say you should halt your viewing of Season 4 immediately and wait until you at least get through the first season sets. I believe it will be more gratifying for you if you do it that way. When you starting viewing S1 watch the first episode (Fear in a Desert City) and then move to the 14th episode (The Girl from Little Egypt) and after you've watched that one resume with the second episode and watch the rest of the season in order. It's not a killer if you don't want to do that but some people have found it helpful to view the first season in that order. You'll see why once you watch that 14th episode. But let me stress again that it's not a deal breaker or anything if you don't want to view the series in that order.


Gary "just my two cents" O.
 

Joe Tor1

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Gary:


Yes, once my First Season sets arrive, I plan to “hold” on Season 4, and go back to the start!


Though I suspect, I’ll want to get to the “big finish” of the upcoming final volume before going back to S2-3, since I haven’t ordered those seasons yet.


On your say-so, I will watch episode 14 directly after episode 1. Then, I’ll take them in order.


Back in the day, my bedtime was 10 PM, and I can always remember hearing the FUGITIVE theme and opening narration playing from downstairs. …But never being able to see this classic series. Now, as with certain other great TV series and movies, is my time to enjoy THE FUGITIVE – music replacements notwithstanding.
 

Harry-N

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If one cannot obtain the re-done S2V1 (I have no idea if new purchases are still the full-Heyes version), then I wouldn't bother with it. If CBS/P could not be bothered recalling those Heyes-laden discs, then they deserve to rot on shelves.


By the same token, if you CAN find the replacement discs with the largely proper score, then you should be in good shape to continue enjoying the series. To be sure, the replacement sections of back score are annoying when they occur (in all of S2 and S3), and some episodes seem to be filled with them, but I'm one who feels that the series can be enjoyed, particularly by one who's never seen the show.


I know a lot of fans here are still not able to abide ANY Heyes replacements, but in smaller doses, it's not exactly torture, more like an unpleasant reminder of the situation. To me, as stated earlier, the series' musical soul are the Rugulo original score cues, and those are largely present in the DVDs of S2 and S3, and I can enjoy them.


I CANNOT abide the original discs of S2V1, though I still have them on my shelf to serve as that "unpleasant reminder".


Harry
 

stevelecher

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Harry:


I can't watch the episodes from Volumes 2 of seasons 2 and 3 because I can't abide the partial replacements of the score so I know what you are saying about S2,V1. But I know what has been changed and I have alternate vehicles for watching these cherished episodes. If I had never seen season 2 episodes and had no other way of seeing them, I would want to see them even via the butchered set offered by CBS.


Is it better to see them with Heyes or not ever at all? That's not as easy to answer as we might think.


Steve Lecher
 
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Harry-N

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Life is too short to rely on corporate lawyers' nonsense and I've got old VHS copies if I need to hear the music in a semi-original form. I say semi, since the tapes are from TV syndication and speeded-up and warbly. I'll live with the officially-released versions for the balance of my time on this Earth. Harry
 

Joe Tor1

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Originally Posted by stevelecher

If I had never seen season 2 episodes and had no other way of seeing them, I would want to see them even via the butchered set offered by CBS.


Is it better to see them with Heyes or not ever at all? That's not as easy to answer as we might think.

That's exactly my dilemma. I suspect that I'll ultimately go for ALL of them, simply BECAUSE the original scores are not burned into my consciousness, as are VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, TIME TUNNEL, STAR TREK TOS, LOST IN SPACE, WILD WILD WEST, OUTER LIMITS, etc.


I just wish the replacements were more characteristically "sixties" in nature, and not as jarring as some report.

My Season 1 volumes just shipped from Amazon, so I'll have them soon.
 

Joe Tor1

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Originally Posted by Gary OS

Joe, I have no doubt you're going to love the first season. It's spectacular as far as I'm concerned. If I can offer a suggestion, I'd say you should halt your viewing of Season 4 immediately and wait until you at least get through the first season sets. I believe it will be more gratifying for you if you do it that way. When you starting viewing S1 watch the first episode (Fear in a Desert City) and then move to the 14th episode (The Girl from Little Egypt) and after you've watched that one resume with the second episode and watch the rest of the season in order. It's not a killer if you don't want to do that but some people have found it helpful to view the first season in that order. You'll see why once you watch that 14th episode. But let me stress again that it's not a deal breaker or anything if you don't want to view the series in that order.


Gary "just my two cents" O.

Gary:


Got my FUGITIVE Season 1 sets today, did exactly as you suggested – and am glad I did!


Both “Fear in a Desert City” and “The Girl from Little Egypt” were excellent – and, if these are representative, I can see why you and the others think so highly of Season 1.


As you might expect, the primary reason I am grateful for your suggestion, Gary, is that (great as it was) I was expecting something MORE from “Fear”. The series of the sixties may have never had true “finales” (THE FUGITIVE and possibly VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA excepted), but they ALL had very specific “establishing” (opening) episodes.


Think of it… VOYAGE, LOST IN SPACE, TIME TUNNEL, THE INVADERS, even certain sitcoms like GILLIGAN’S ISLAND and McHALE’S NAVY all established their premise, rules, and even their “universe” (if you will) in their premiere episodes… yet “Fear in a Desert City” played as if it could have been plucked out of mid-season.


I’d never want to be subject to spoilers, and hope I’m not inadvertently revealing something (at least something that wasn’t already implied by previous posts), but “The Girl from Little Egypt”, within its story context, delivered exactly what I was hoping for from the premiere episode. Clearly, Gary, that was your intent!


Thanks to you, Gary – and to Steve, Brad, Jack, Harry, and all for piquing my interest in one of the great shows of the sixties.


I’m open to recommendations on “episodes to skip directly to”, as long as they contain no spoilers. I’ll be enjoying this series over a good period of time.


Joe T.
 

disctrip

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I too am looking forward to seeing "The Judgement" again. Except, for having to watch that last scene of them shaking hands. I can't stand that scene. He should have spit in Gerards face.Or at least turned and walked away and left him standing there with his arm out.. That man made his life PURE HELL for 4 years. It's a hard scene for me to watch.:f 
 

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