The Fugitive: Season 3 Volume 1

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Roy Wall, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Jeff Willis

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  2. David Von Pein

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  3. David Von Pein

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  4. David Von Pein

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    BODY{font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial} .aolmailheader{font-size:10pt;color:black;font-family:Arial;}I had an interesting give-and-take e-mail exchange concerning "The Fugitive: Season 3, Volume 1" with "DVD Talk" reviewer Paul Mavis this morning (Saturday, October 31, 2009). Here is that exchange:


    DVP SAID:

    Hi Paul,

    In your DVDTalk.com review of "THE FUGITIVE: SEASON THREE, VOLUME ONE", you made a fairly decent-sized error when you said this:

    "What never makes sense in the story ["Landscape With Running Figures"] is the fact that Gerard's wife doesn't recognize Kimble right off the bat. Once blind, she tells him straight she stared at him on the bus, so she DID see Kimble."

    Actually, Marie (Barbara Rush) most certainly did NOT actually see Kimble on the bus at all. And we can verify she did not see him, as the camera is focused on Marie when Kimble boards the bus, and Marie isn't even looking at him.

    She merely SAID she saw him later in the episode when she was desperate (at all costs) to keep him near her and to ultimately capture him. So she lied and said she had seen him, but she obviously didn't see him.

    If she had truly seen Kimble on the bus, she most certainly would have bolted from the bus right then and there in order to notify her husband (and/or any nearby policeman). She wouldn't have driven XX number of miles on the bus, all the while knowing that the man she was truly running from (Dr. Kimble) was sitting right behind her. That would have been ultra-silly and would have had me screaming aloud at my television screen at such ridiculous writing on the part of the Fugitive screenwriter.

    Anyway, as usual, I enjoyed reading your review, Paul. Although, I must say that I totally disagree with your predominantly-negative analysis of "The Fugitive: S3, V1".

    I think you tend to over-analyze this particular brilliant TV series starring David Janssen. The first half of Season 3, in fact, contains some of the very best "Fugitive" entries, in my opinion.

    And (FWIW), I think the second half of the third season is even better than the first half, with standout episodes such as "Ill Wind", "In A Plain Paper Wrapper", "Wife Killer", "The 2130", and Mickey Rooney's excellent performance in "This'll Kill You".

    I know this is hard to do (since you probably watch nearly all of the episodes in any DVD boxed set you're reviewing in just a few days' time while preparing your DVD reviews), but if you could attempt to forget about Richard Kimble's earlier entanglements and predicaments and love affairs, etc., and focus on each episode of this top-flight TV series as a SEPARATE ENTITY unto itself, I truly believe your enjoyment of this show would increase a good deal.

    "The Fugitive", after all, IS an "anthology" series. That fact, of course, doesn't mean that the viewer should totally ignore what has gone on in Kimble's life prior to the episode we are currently watching....but when a person has the built-in analytical and critical mindset which you, Paul Mavis, obviously possess, I think a little bit of "forgetting" and "ignoring" just might be a good idea when faced with watching a bunch of episodes of the same TV series in a back-to-back fashion. (Obligatory: IMO.) ;)

    Thanks for the review, and take care.

    Regards,
    David Von Pein
    http://www.DVP-Reviews.blogspot.com

    =======================================

    PAUL MAVIS SAID:

    Thanks for writing -- I'll go back and watch it again, but I thought for sure she glanced at him coming on the bus. As for "over analyzing" it, I'm not even sure what that means :) (and you certainly wouldn't be the first person to tell me that either -- point taken!). But I do think you're mischaracterizing my take on the volume -- I don't think it's "predominantly" negative -- I just didn't enjoy these episodes as much as previous ones. I still said for the most part, these episodes are entertaining...I'm not sure how that's negative overall. And I left it open for improvement for the second half of the season (which you state is better). Thanks again, Paul
    =======================================

    EXACTLY 10 MINUTES LATER, PAUL WROTE AGAIN AND SAID:

    You're right, Dave -- she doesn't see him. I was certain she did. I'll amend that in the review. But I still think, considering her state of mind (running away from her husband because he's obsessed enough with Kimble that he would cut short their vacation -- and importantly, with her knowing Kimble was on the run in that very area), and with all the inadvertent clues Kimble gives her that he is a doctor, she'd put 2 and 2 together quicker than she does. And I still think the threat of the flood (which near occurs and is never shown), and the standard-issue punks on a rampage angle ultimately go nowhere here -- although as I said in the review, I did think Rush was excellent. Thanks again for reading my review so carefully (something I should have done when I proofed it!!). :) Paul

    =======================================

    DVP SAID:

    Thanks for the return mails, Paul.

    Re: Marie Gerard and Kimble....

    The one thing that had me scratching my head in the "Landscape" episode is this --- Why doesn't Marie recognize Richard Kimble's VOICE?

    Kimble was in no way disguising his voice when he talked to Mrs. Gerard (he, of course, would have had no reason to disguise himself in any way, because he had no reason to think that Marie was a threat to him), and it seems to me that Marie would have certainly heard Kimble speak at some point prior to their meeting on the bus.

    She might not have attended every session of Kimble's trial in Stafford, Indiana, years earlier, but wouldn't she have heard Kimble speaking at some point in time when he spoke to the press?*

    * = I'll admit, I'm no expert on "criminal procedure", but surely Kimble spoke with the press on radio and TV somewhere along the line, and since Marie's husband was deeply involved in the Kimble case, I feel it's very likely Marie would have known what Kimble sounded like.

    But, perhaps I'm lost in the JFK assassination most of the time (which, indeed, admittedly I am), which was a murder case that had the accused assassin of President Kennedy (Lee Harvey Oswald) being paraded in front of the press many times, with Oswald being heard on TV all across America during his two days of detention.

    But, maybe we can assume that Richard Kimble was kept away from the probing television cameras after his arrest for his wife's slaying. So perhaps my Oswald/Kimble "press" analogy is overstated and inaccurate. I just don't know.

    Anyway, that's just more of DVP's "2 cents" on "Landscape With Running Figures", which (btw) is an episode that author Ed Robertson proclaims to be "quite simply, the best episode of the [entire] series" [from Page 119 of Robertson's 1993 book, "The Fugitive Recaptured"].

    Regards to you,
    David Von Pein

    =======================================

    PAUL SAID:

    That's a good point. Here's another one that I didn't include in the review, but which bugged me when I watched it: how did the cops trace the call to the town of Tilden? Watch the scene where Marie gets through to her husband for the first time. She conveniently forgets the name of the town, and then hangs up (a bit too quickly) when he hesitates for a moment when she asks him to come get her. The filmmakers even emphasis the "click" of the receiver going off as she disconnects the call. So...how did the cops trace the call? Unless that line was still open and engaged, it would have been impossible to trace the call.

    =======================================

    DVP SAID:

    Good point on the Tilden call, Paul. I hadn't thought of that. But, maybe the phone line somehow remained 'open' in some way.

    I'd also like to know if Marie regained her sight in the Epilog scene. I really can't tell. I think that should have been emphasized for the viewing audience. (Although it's pretty clear--via mere implication--that Marie is going to see once again at some point in the future.)

    Salutations,
    DVP


    =======================================

    PAUL SAID:

    That's a good point, too -- I'm not sure it's clear, either. We've seen too many TV shows to know it was almost impossible to trace a phone call back then unless the caller was right on the line...and even then it was difficult and took many minutes. Still, I'm a big one for saying "don't nitpick" such continuity lapses in shows, so........:)
    =======================================
     
  5. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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  6. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    [Oops, duplicate posts. Sorry. The edit feature sometimes acts goofy here, and instead of editing an existing post, it creates a whole new post. That just happened to me three times in the last few minutes. ~shrug~]
     
  7. Gary OS

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    I'll see if I can add a little spice to the discussion by stating something that will be controversial for most dyed-in-the-wool FUGITIVE fans: "Landscape with Running Figures" is not in my personal Top 10 of Fugitive episodes. I know, I know. How dare I say that. It's commonly accepted among the fandom that this 2-part episode is one of the best, and while I did enjoy it (but I enjoy every episode), this one didn't hit me like it apparently does most other fans. Would I put it in my Top 25? Maybe, but I'm not even sure about that. But I do look forward to watching this one again after having taken a good, long break from viewing it. Maybe my appreciation for "Landscape" will grow with a new viewing.

    I'm personally looking forward to "Wings of an Angel", "Crack in a Crystal Ball", "Trial by Fire", and "The Good Guys & the Bad Guys" moreso than "Landscape". Of that group, I'd say "Trial by Fire" is my favorite on this currently released set. And I can say for certain the 2nd volume of Season 3 will contain more favorites of mine than this 1st volume. That's for sure!

    Don't take anything I said above to mean I think Season 3 of the show lost a lot of steam. To me it doesn't. As a whole it probably didn't have quite as many 4 star episodes, IMHO, as the previous seasons did, but it wasn't far behind and it does have one of the best episodes of the entire series - "Wife Killer". But that one will have to wait a few more weeks for Volume Two.


    Gary "I know it's blasphemy to not rank 'Landscape' in the Top 10 of Fugitive episodes, so I'm expecting David to roundly rebuke me" O.
     
  8. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    No rebuking necessary here, Gary. It's a matter of personal taste and preference (as are most things in life, DVD and otherwise). ;)

    As I mentioned, I like "Trial By Fire" very much too (as does Gary). Everything about that episode is great, including the always-top-notch acting of Charles Aidman. (He was also Rob Petrie's insurance man, "Ed Ruben", you know. And he hypnotized Laura Petrie, et al, when he showed up in another Van Dyke Show episode as "Glen Jameson" as well. A jack-of-all-trades in the TV world.) :)
     
  9. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    Yeah, Mr. Aidman did a nice job with "Trial by Fire", after helping Rob Petrie out a couple of times (I believe he hypnotized him as well as being his insurance man). And of course we had Lassie's first master, "Jeff Miller", in that one as well. Oh, and Richie Cunningham's mom too! But it was always Jacqueline Scott's special guest star spot I looked forward to whenever Richard Kimble's sister showed up. I have always felt there was a great chemistry between her and David Janssen, and whenever her character appeared it ramped things up that much more.

    Gary "this show really did have a lot of great guest stars" O.
     
  10. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    I haven't read the Paul Mavis review but I guess judging from Dave VP's post, there was a complaint regarding the lack of continuity overall. I agree that for a show of this era, before the age of home video where once you saw an episode once that was it and you couldn't go back and study it until the summer repeat or years later, that you have to accept a lower standard than we'd insist on today, and also the fact that "The Fugitive" is basically a modern version of old western anthology shows that centered on the loner going from town to town each week and impacting the lives of people, also has to be considered. That said, there are some areas where I think the show could have been improved with a little tighter continuity overall.

    1-The total disappearance of Kimble's brother Ray after the first season episode that introduced him, sister Donna and Kimble's father. A simple line of dialogue explaining that perhaps he was overseas racing cars or something at least would have told us the character just hadn't gone to the same place Richie Cunningham's older brother disappeared to! (Kimble's father at least was referenced in the second Donna episode and it was mentioned he'd died in her third appearance).

    2-We had one episode where Kimble ends up with Girard's son (S2) and then one with Girard's wife (S3). I'd like to think Girard would or should have referenced either of these events in passing during a future encounter.

    3-And my one complaint about "The Judgment" is that I wish the character of Lloyd Chandler, the witness who finally clears Kimble, had been introduced in a previous episode to at least lay the groundwork for his existence as someone who could finally clear Kimble.
     
  11. stevelecher

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    I'm a new poster here. Thanks everyone for the reviews. I am ordering these sets now because the music situation seems less unsatisfactory than I thought it would be.

    I can see no reason why Marie Gerard would recognize Kimble's voice. She wouldn't know the voices of the many people her husband's arrested over the years, nor would she have likely heard his voice on TV more than a fleeting time or two after he was arrested, years ago, if she paid any attention at all. Kimble didn't become an obsession for her husband until after the escape and there were no TV interviews from him during those two plus years. She would know his image but not his voice.

    What I don't buy on this excellent episode, is Kimble standing there to greet the motorcycle cop as Marie faints. With the manhunt that is still ongoing, would the cop not have recognized him? Would he really have taken the chance? It would have been much more believable to me if Kimble slipped away, as she faints and the cop's headlight comes into view.

    In "Wings of An Angel," wouldn't a phone call to the warden from a safe distance have been as helpful to Greg Morris' character? These scenes where Kimble is cavalier about his own safety annoy me more than how the call from Tilden was traced.

    Thanks again for all the reviews and comments.

    SteveL
     
  12. jimmyjet

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    if i recall, she recognized him as he got on the bus ?
     
  13. stevelecher

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    See above regarding whether she saw him on the bus. If she did, I think she would have called the police over from the roadblock. She's looking out the window, lost in her own world.

    SteveL
     
  14. jimmyjet

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    yea, you are correct. the first time marie pretty much knows that it is kimble is when he makes the comment "one and a half to be exact".

    what was a bit strange was that it looked like kimble began to know it was girard's wife, right before that - when she starts talking about the will of the wisp - not being there again today - must have been in all the papers.

    but then he goes on nonchalantly, with his one and a half to be exact comment.

    being in kimble's place, as smart as he is, and knowing that he is in the newspaper, he surely would have picked up on marie's comment, and not have made the comment to her.

    but marie then makes the mistake of asking him how long he and "helen" were married. once again he acts suspicious, but then continues on as if he still does not know who she is.

    then she makes the "no publicity" statement, and the phone rings - and this is when the episode shows you that kimble knows who she is. in reviewing it, i will say that the story line should have been looked at more closely.

    with regard to him running when the ambulance showed up - that i think was well done. he had no time to run, once they appeared. that would have made him look suspicious, when the ambulance people had no reason to suspect anything. his kind heart kept him from running beforehand, but then that was who he was. i think that scene was done well.

    with regard to the eyesight coming back, i definitely got the impression that when her eyes went in the direction of kimble while she was on the stretcher, that there was a look of visual recognition, but then too weak to do anything.

    the fugitive is my all-time favorite show, as well. i think i am realizing though that we all like it for different reasons.

    i like it because it shows a truly compassionate person, willing to help others when he needs help himself. always living by a true honor code. so if there are parts of an episode that have some story-line mistakes, or if the music isnt the same - those are minor things to me. i like the actual story, the events, the kind of person richard kimble was, etc.
     
  15. jimmyjet

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    in fact, another story line mistake, which is probably why i thought she saw him on the bus - is that she said she saw him, when the two were having their conversation.

    so there were some definite mixups on the exactness of the story line in that episode.
     
  16. stevelecher

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    Jimmyjet:

    Asking about Helen wasn't a mistake. That was her way of conclusively proving to herself that yes, he is Kimble. He didn't think he mentioned her name but had to conclude that maybe he did. He still had no way to know who she was but he was getting concerned about her sudden clinginess. He doesn't know who she is until he answers the phone and hears, "This is Lt. Gerard, can I talk to my wife again?" If you watch it again, the whole thing is perfect.

    Ahead of the ambulance is a motorcycle cop and Richard was in serious danger of being recognized there. Geez, his kindness sometimes was over the top.

    I agree that this is also my favorite all time show, because we have the ultimate underdog here, who keeps his humanity, and it is done so well. I have to say that the music is of tremendous importance to me as it is as integral to the mood of the show as David Janssen is. I can't watch some of the episodes on Season 2, Vol 2 and I won't watch Wings Of An Angel when I get this set.

    I have all the episodes taped from A&E but some of you mention alternate sets. Can anyone elaborate more on that please? Thanks....

    SteveL
     
  17. jimmyjet

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    well, we have different viewpoints about the episode - maybe that is a good thing. i can understand your perception, but mine is just different.

    i try to look at things as to how one would generally act. marie was fairly sure after the comment about "one and a half".

    she knows darn well that kimble never mentioned "helen". and she could also pretty much figure that kimble would know that he never used the name "helen". so to say it on purpose would mean a large risk for a little chance of success. she does not want kimble to know that she knows that he is kimble.

    in her situation, she would have been much more indirect. she could have said something like "what was your wife's name ?". had she said that in a somewhat nonchalant way, it would not have raised kimble's suspicions, because she was just behaving like she had been all along - clinging, wanting to have someone near her, wanting to feel a connection with that person, etc.

    had she not have raised his suspicions, she may have gotten "helen" from him. or maybe not. but she could have tried some more, had she wanted to. but again, she already knew that it was highly likely that it was kimble. so there was no reason to risk confirmation on something that bold.

    again, i dont think there was time for him to run. that part of it - he made the correct decision. they would have seen him running.

    i dont know how old you are, so i dont know if you actually saw this show while it was live. but this was the type of morality that we grew up with. you can watch all types of shows from that era, and you will see it over and over again.

    i have just started buying and watching these old shows, and something deep inside me has stirred - an adult recognition of my childhood in a way that i hadnt quite thought about. or at least not for quite some time. kinda like looking thru an old drawer and finding stuff that you had long stopped realizing was there.
     
  18. David Von Pein

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    Quote:
    That's not a mistake at all. Marie was obviously telling a deliberate lie to Kimble when she told him she had seen him when he boarded the bus. She was desperate to keep him there, and she felt that telling the lie of seeing him get on the bus and swooning over him might be a way to keep him there so he could be captured, thereby ending Marie's own personal torture resulting from the Richard Kimble/Philip Gerard cat-and-mouse game.
     
  19. jimmyjet

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    i have to chuckle - we all get different interpretations.

    once again, she would have realized that telling him that she saw him, would draw all sorts of suspicions from kimble.

    marie might not know his voice, but would certainly know what he looked like.

    and as it turned out, it did just that - make kimble highly suspicious.

    as i rewatched it, i did so with a completely different frame of mind - not thinking about the emotional aspect of the show, etc - and just looking at it as a detective analyzing the story line. in my opinion, there were a lot of mistakes about the story line. not necessarily the acting - but the lines that they were using.

    had it been a real world situation, some of the events would not have occurred in the way that they did.
     
  20. jimmyjet

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    the first big mistake is when kimble hears marie talk about the will o the wisp, in all the papers, etc.

    you could see the immediate jump in kimble. and anyone with half a smart would realize that she was talking about richard kimble.

    he would have been highly careful about what else he said. because at this point, marie has no reason at all to think she is with kimble. and that is exactly what kimble would have wanted her to think.

    instead he goes on talking, and even revealing his town's secret joke - once the first story mistake is made, several followed afterwards.

    people in real situations would not have done what marie and kimble did.
     

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