The Fugitive: Season 3 Volume 1 (1 Viewer)

[Jack P]

"Stranger In The Miiror" I should add I did watch late last night and that was intact. That had loads of TZ cues. So I have just three more to go in the set.

 

[Jack P]

Gary, this disagreement at the moment centers on two of the episodes. "Landscape" Pt. 1 and "Trial By Fire." So far, his reviews match mine on all other episodes but for those. If I end up being the one who was wrong on those two, I'll be the first to offer my apologies. I'm just trying to offer my best judgment based on the general sound, and when I hear cues I recognize and sometimes I have to take an educated guess based on the matter of whether the music has a modern sound to it because apart from "Landscape" I don't have the originals to compare, and I'll admit that I only did a side-by-side check on the source music cues for Pt. 2. I will go back and study "Landscape" more closely when I get a chance because I did not when watching this very important episode get a sense I was hearing something out of place.

 

[Gary OS]

No problem, Jack. Regardless of how everything turns out in the wash, you have done a great job and I appreciate it very, very much! I was just hoping we were going to be looking at about 12 of the 15 episodes being basically untouched altogether. But now I'm not sure about that. Looks like it might be edging closer to a 50/50 split - which would not be a good thing, IMHO. But that's worse case scenario based on all the info we have thus far. I'm still hoping you are correct and we are only looking at minor replacements in a few spots - with many episodes being completely untouched.

Gary "don't sweat it at all, Jack - you're doing a fantastic job and I commend you for it" O.

 

[Jack P]

Yes, I think I would say that "Wings Of An Angels" is the only episode that would cause you some fits, and probably that chase section of "Conspiracy" where even there the overall ratio of original to Heyes was still a case of 80% original over the course of the episode. Unless these last three episodes are as bad as "Wings" I think there is no question that the worst case-scenario is a match of S2 V1 where Heyes cues I think intruded into about 4-5 episodes overall and on V2 the ratio was reversed where only 5 of 15 were totally clear.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P

Yes, I think I would say that "Wings Of An Angels" is the only episode that would cause you some fits, and probably that chase section of "Conspiracy" where even there the overall ratio of original to Heyes was still a case of 80% original over the course of the episode. Unless these last three episodes are as bad as "Wings" I think there is no question that the worst case-scenario is a match of S2 V1 where Heyes cues I think intruded into about 4-5 episodes overall and on V2 the ratio was reversed where only 5 of 15 were totally clear.

I believe you are correct on the differences between Season 2 Volume 1 vs. Volume 2. They were pretty much inverted as you said. I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that we see absolutely no more Heyes intrusion in the remaining episodes you have left to review. This will be key for me. Fingers and toes crossed that the final 3 episodes you have left are all basically untouched.

Gary "regardless of how the rest of this set turns out, I still reserve the right to say CBS/P is goofy and insane in the way they are doing this stuff" O.

 

[Jack P]

Okay, now that I'm happy over the game, I'm going back and checking all those spots of Landscape Pt. 1. What follows are all of my descriptions as I view them side by side on my computer with two DVD drives.

The 4:31 cue that lasts 30 seconds covering the point where Kimble is told he signed the wrong name by Luis transitioning to the Girards arrival at the hotel is indeed Heyes. In fact, I have to say that this is a Heyes cue that I likely missed in "Trial" because it is very quiet and you have to turn up the volume very high to in fact tell it has synthy origins. But it's not intrusive or critical IMO.

The second cue at 7:09 is NOT, repeat NOT a replacement. It's the original where Kimble is going down the alley and ducks into the building where he confronts the kids.

And 23:24 which leads into the Act II closure is NOT a replacement either.

33:54. NOT a replacement.

39:10. NOT a replacement. It's the original just sounding better that we're accustomed to hearing it.

44:12. After Kimble tells a blinded Mrs. Girard she'll be all right and moves off. Yes, this is a replacement that comes up in mid-stream. This cue lasts 20 seconds and then it goes silent while in the original the cue plays out a bit longer. But in all candor the different cue doesn't sound Heyesish at all and you'd easily think it was part of the original unlike the 4:31 cue where if you really listen closely you can hear the synthy sound.

That means "Landscape" has a grand total of about 50 seconds of replacement music by my count and four other instances cited as replacement is in fact the original.

 

[Jack P]

I'm moving on to "The Good Guys And The Bad Guys" and there's no question we've got jukebox replacement for the scenes of the dance because I can not believe that this generic jazzy type number would have accompanied a dance with everyone in western garb. The background music in the carnival before Kimble gets roped may be generic replacement type stuff as well. An iffy question might be the music when Kimble gets roped. I can't swear to it one way or the other whether its original or not since it is so easy to get iffy when anything of a "chase" nature comes up, but I'm going to tentatively say it is not replacement until someone else says otherwise. All other cues up to this point through 20 minutes are original.

 

[Jack P]

Final report on this episode. All regular cues I think are intact, and the fact that there's a large amount of source music that is likely replaced is probably the only thing some might find awry with this episode.

 

[Clugul]

And Robert Dahl just revised some of his comments and posted (on Yahoo) this summation regarding the Season 3, Vol. 1 set:

I've now watched all 15 episodes of S3V1, and in my opinion, CBS has done a
pretty good job of leaving the original music mostly intact. Here is my review
of each episode.

"Wings Of An Angel" has a great deal of Heyes synth music, and only a handful of
original Rugolo cues. It's the worst of the set, in terms of replaced music.

"Trial By Fire" has several instances of Heyes music that actually blend rather
well, as they seem to have been reduced in volume. There are a few noticeable
Heyes cues in Act 4.

"Conspiracy of Silence" has more Heyes than "Trial By Fire", some of which are
pretty loud.

"Landscape With Running Figures part 1" has Heyes cues at 4:31 and 44:12. This
is a smaller number of Heyes cues than I first reported. I went back and took a
second look, and discovered that some of the cues that sounded like Heyes cues
were in fact original cues.

"Landscape With Running Figures part 2" has no Heyes cues that I could hear,
although it seemed that there were stretches of silence that might indicate that
some original cues were simply removed.

"Set Fire To A Straw Man" has loud Heyes cues at 2:26 and 4:00, with softer
Heyes at 29:20 and 37:40.

"The Good Guys And The Bad Guys" has no Heyes music that I could hear, but the
Vigilante-Roundup carnival music that you hear in the background has been
replaced.

The following episodes have no replacement music that I could detect -

"Middle Of A Heat Wave"
"Crack In A Crystal Ball"
"Three Cheers For Little Boy Blue"
"All The Scared Rabbits"
"An Apple A Day"
"Stranger In The Mirror"
"End Of The Line"
"When The Wind Blows"

In my opinion, this set is a good deal better than S2V2. Many episodes are
Heyes-free, and other eps like "Landscape" and "Trial" get off lightly with just
a few instances of Heyes.

The real puzzler is "Wings Of An Angel", which runneth over with Heyes. CBS
obviously was trying to please the fans with this release -- somehow "Wings Of
An Angel" slipped through the cracks.

Best regards,
Robert

 

[jquirk]

Jack, I think your comments have convinced me that purchasing this set may be well worth my while, after all. The only problem I have with any of your comments are those concerning the Yankees. I hate 'em. I'm a die hard Phillies fan who wants your team to lose, preferably in five.

 

[Jack P]

We're still Pedro's Daddy, as he found out tonight.

I'll also reiterate jukebox/radio music replacement in Pt. 2 of "Landscape" though honestly I think what probably happened there and on most of the other source music things is that CBS/Paramount couldn't figure out what it was to begin with. The original jukebox stuff in Pt. 2 of "Landscape" isn't that distinctive, nor does the replacement sound disruptive or clashing.

Overall, I would rate this as better than S2 V1 replacement. It's clearly the best set that has come out post-S1 and I think we should reasonably expect S3 V2 to be on the same level.

We now have to look ahead to what will happen in S4 because that is when the arrival of a new producer meant a chance in library music, as the decision was made to start drawing from "Outer Limits", which is music for a show controlled by MGM (originally produced by United Artists Television). Let's hope CBS/Paramount doesn't get skittish or cheap in regards to that!

 

[Jeff Willis]

Jack, Thanks again for your review work! I've decided I want the the set but it'll be from Santa at Christmas and probably S3V2 for a birthday present next year. With the music replacements I just decided to count on gifts for these vs spending my own $$'s.

OT: Jim, I was a Phillies fan last year but I'm not a "repeat" fan. Jack: "Go NY". A split in NY is better than 0-2 but that 1st loss may be a big one. Glad the weather's staying good up there so far.

 

[Gary OS]

Great, great work guys (Jack in particular and the guy at the other forum too)! Thanks to everyone who's diligently listened and marked those cues down for us. Wish we had gotten this type of blow by blow when the first replacement discs came out for Season 2, but that's water under the bridge. Anyhow, like Jeff said I'm sold and will be buying this set. I can watch the Heyes-free (or maybe even Heyes-light) stuff on these studio sets and then revert to my alternates for the few that are Heyes-heavy. Again, my highest thanks to Jack and others for this great work!

I still do have to wonder about the "hows" and "whys" of the people behind the scenes doing this audio work on the episodes. There is honestly no rhyme or reason to it. I know it sounds insane, and it probably is a silly notion on my part, but I swear it seems like we've got more than one person working on these substitutions. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. One guy goes to work on some episodes and basically leaves everything in (maybe because he's more familiar with the score) and another guy goes to work on another episode and inserts Heyes all over the place (because he's not familiar with the score - or he's on something, LOL). Heck, I have no idea, but this is truly one of the biggest mysteries of all time in the world of TV on DVD. Just for the sake of my sanity I wish someone could get to the bottom of it and let us know. I'll lay good money on the fact that some of exact same CBS Library cues that were replaced in certain episodes are intact in others. I'd almost be willing to bet on that. So it's just weird, weird, weird.

Gary "once more, thanks to you guys for doing such great work" O.

 

[buford2]

Yes, thanks a lot for the analysis. I will probably get this set also because of the high ratio of untouched to touched. Its too bad about Wings of an Angel. I really like that episode. Can always watch it on the alternate set though.

For me, theres kind of a charm about watching these episodes on the alternate set. My alternate set copy of Wings is a pretty bad 16mm print. The film was broken and fixed in certain places, so It skips sometimes. While this may be annoying to some, and I was annoyed with it initially, its kind of nostalgic to me. Takes me back to the days when tv stations actually ran film chains.

Anyway....looks like I will finally be getting another Fug studio set....

 

[shadyguy]

Can someone tell me how to get to the Robert Dahl review on Yahoo ??

 

[Clugul]

Originally Posted by shadyguy ">[/url]

Can someone tell me how to get to the Robert Dahl review on Yahoo ??[/QUOTE]I posted it in full in message #269, but to access it via the Yahoo group, The-Fugitive-Views-And-Reviews, you can try this link:
[url=http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/THE-FUGITIVE-VIEWS-AND-REVIEWS/messages]tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/THE-FUGITIVE-VIEWS-AND-REVIEWS/messages
[/url]
or try this general link:
[url=http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/THE-FUGITIVE-VIEWS-AND-REVIEWS/]tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/THE-FUGITIVE-VIEWS-AND-REVIEWS/[/url]

To reply to Robert Dahl, you'll need to join the Yahoo group.

 

[David Von Pein]

Hello to all in this very interesting Fugitive thread.

I received my Fugitive S3, V1 set from Amazon on Friday, October 30th, and overall (like Jack) I'm very pleased with this 15-episode DVD collection -- from the great picture quality (and all of these Fuge sets have sparkled, "PQ"-wise, to be sure), to the quality of the acting and writing, and to the minimal number of replacement musical cues throughout the four-disc set.


RE: The Music.....

I watched the excellent 2-parter "Landscape With Running Figures" first, and was impressed by the lack of Mark Heyes music substitutes in both of those episodes. I truly didn't notice ANY "Heyes" music in those two shows except for one short replacement in Act I of Part 1 when Kimble emerges from the restroom. That one is definitely Heyes.

But the others that were mentioned by another person at the Yahoo forum, I did not notice at all. Every cue in "Landscape" (except the one I just mentioned) sounds like "Rugolo/CBS" to my ears.

I've got a review in progress. I'll post it here in this thread as soon as I get it done (probably later today, October 31st).

 

[shadyguy]

DVP, It is good to finally see you on this thread and am glad you gave it your stamp of approval.
I ordered S3V1 last night from Amazon after reading Robert Dahls review.

Looks like we all got an early Christmas present !

Anyone want to try and guess what S3V2 will be like ??

 

[Harry-N]

The return of DVP! Welcome back David. I'll look forward to your review, as you're usually one to focus in on the actual stories and content of the shows - and as THE FUGITIVE is such superlative drama, that fact sometimes gets lost in the many, many comments on the unfortunate music substitutions.

I too have been enjoying the S3V1 set. I'm through the first three episodes on the first disc, and I did a quick check of some other episodes, most notably, seemingly everyone's favorite (and for good reason), "Landscape With Running Figures".

It's enjoyable not to have to space these out, as the followup volume is a mere 5 weeks behind this one, so my three episodes a week is about right!

Harry

 

[Professor Echo]

HELP!

Would it be possible for one or more learned posters from the various FUGITIVE forums to compile a list of every episode that has music substitutions, including those for source music from each volume thus far relased? I don't think each and every specific cue point need be delineated, just an overview of only those shows which are not 100% intact as originally broadcast.

This would be extremely helpful in deciding between which episodes to watch from the official set and an alternate set. My head is spinning over this and I'm not ashamed to admit to being enough of a purist as to want my favorite show of all time in its original form, including source music.

Does such a list already exist somewhere? If so, please point me to it. Otherwise, is anyone up to the seemingly Herculean task of compiling said list and perhaps starting a separate HTF thread for it? A guaranteed old Stan Lee non-prize awaits you! Thanks.