THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Gord Lacey, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    The same reason why the TZ composers don't get credited in any of the S1-3 episodes that are predominately their music.
     
  2. chas speed

    chas speed Second Unit

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    There really aren't any episodes of the The Fugitive where 90% of the music is taken from The Twilight Zone especially for an entire season.
     
  3. michael_ks

    michael_ks Screenwriter

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    FYI, we have two people who semi-regularly go trolling along here: elec08 and Jim B.
     
  4. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    Exactly, Michael. And my "Ignore" feature works fabulously on both.

    Gary "I highly recommend the use of this feature" O.
     
  5. michael_ks

    michael_ks Screenwriter

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    True, however there are many episodes, like for example "Tug of War" which is so heavily tracked with Goldsmith's score for "Dust" as to make you feel it was about the only score used. Still no Goldsmith credit, which the composer, even in those days joked over.
     
  6. buford2

    buford2 Stunt Coordinator

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    I can't support this. I returned season 2 volumes 1 and 2, and am just going to wait for season 3 and hope for the best, although I expect the worst. Guess I will just have to go with my alterate copies. To me they have butchered it and its not the same show.

    Dave
     
  7. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Producer

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    Dave,

    I agree completely. I have S2V2 but that's only because I received it as a gift. After reading the HTF music reviews here I wasn't going to spend my own $$'s on the set.

    For those that are of the opinion that the CBS/P "restored" sets are good for them, I'm happy for them. But after watching "Moonchild" on my alt set and comparing it with the CBS/P episode, "no sale" for CBS/P. I know that there seems to be 2 distinct groups here regarding the "restored" sets but this episode loses plenty from the CBS/P set vs the original episode. And this is coming from a collector that values remastered transfers as much or perhaps more so than many on this Bd. It's also coming from someone that hasn't seen this series previous to the DVD releases so I'm not having a problem with replaced music on the basis of knowing this show prior to the DVD's.

    Imo, it isn't worth the trade-off in print Q vs the missing/changed backscore issues.

    I hope that S3V1 will be the same as the S1 sets.
     
  8. buford2

    buford2 Stunt Coordinator

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    I would rather have lower quality intact versions than what CBS/P wants to pawn off on us. I almost sent in for the replacement discs for season 2 volume 1 until I heard about volume 2 being even worse. That did it. I bought some other shows that havent been mutilated instead. The sad part is that originally this was the only show I was going to buy. Maybe someday it will be released unmolested. Guess I wait until then.[​IMG]

    Dave
     
  9. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    Sorry, but I disagree completely that in this instance a low quality image with a minimum of 60-70% intact music is somehow the equivalent of mass butchery. Full music replacement yes, but in this instance compared to what I've been stuck with for life on "The Odd Couple" S4-5 by the same company, these versions will suffice for me. I tried watching an old VHS version transfer of "The Survivors" after I had watched the DVD version and I found that the washed out fuzzy picture was suddenly just as distracting as a Heyes cue was for me. That was the clincher in terms of whether I could get used to a set that has this standard of original music left in and I guess I have a natural advantage because I was not familiar with the nuances of these episodes beforehand, and the answer is yes. Episode story content is intact (which is not so with "The Odd Couple" where the edits especially in "Strike Up The Band Or Else" DESTROYED the whole integrity of the episode content) and more than enough of the correct music is there to preserve the basic "sound" of a "Fugitive" episode for me. I like anyone else wish it was 100% intact, but I have enough of a track record of comparisons to work with to tell me that as things stand, this will be an acceptable set in the total picture of things, especially when just four months ago NONE of us ever thought we'd have this much given back to us on DVD.
     
  10. buford2

    buford2 Stunt Coordinator

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    We can agree to disagree[​IMG]

    Dave
     
  11. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Producer

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    All I can say is that my alt set is better than several of my TV/DVD set studio transfer Q's and the entire backscore is unaltered, as originally aired during the initial broadcasts. There are no missing scenes in the episodes of the ones I've viewed thru most of S2. They are time-compressed but that's ok for me since most of the Image Combat! set is also TC'ed and that doesn't bother me with TV/DVD sets. I'd love to have an alt set that's also not TC'ed but that's life.

    No comparison to the current CBS/P releases. I like (properly remastered) studio releases as much as anyone on this Bd but "just" the Rugolo music restored with some of the library ques isn't good enough for me considering what has transpired since the beginning of this story (ie, the Burlingame article). We don't know for certain but it appears that all of this could have been avoided at CBS/P with enough effort.
     
  12. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    Some of us might find T/C with higher pitched voices to be as much of a nuisance as a random Heyes cue. And even if it were acceptable, not all of us have access to that particular "alternate" set and would have to make do with ratty looking VHS tapes transferred to DVD-R. I would have considered that avenue if we'd stayed at a 100% Heyes scenario but I feel glad I don't have to go that route any longer. That's not to say I wish the final result had been better than it was, but after all that's happened three-quarters of a loaf is better than none IMO.
     
  13. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Producer

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    Jack,

    I hear what you're saying and I respect your take on it. I guess, for me, if most other shows had been "Heyes"'d, I'd probably look at it differently. Since it's the Fugitive that was affected, it's a big issue to me to have anything changed in the backscore.

    I can't argue with the "half-full" vs "half-empty" approach that a lot here have taken with the CBS/P restored sets. I do see the positive angle of CBS/P listening to the consumers (or perhaps it had more to do with the Variety article/industry press) and it's definitely a positive step that was taken to restore the Rugolo portion and some of the library cues.

    As for T/C (& PAL), that's an individual choice that's been discussed on the Bd several times. I'm just glad that my ears don't mind any speed-up in TV/DVD episodes.
     
  14. chas speed

    chas speed Second Unit

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    It seems really strange to me that a high class/big budget show like the Fugitive would suddenly go with another TV shows music for almost an entire season. A score that had already been used on Stoney Burke, The Outer Limits and The Invaders. I know they used some stock music throughout the first 3 seasons, but season 4 barely has any Rugulo music in it at all. There really is no comment in The Fugitive book about this and I wonder if the switch to color made them try to save money by cutting back on the music. The whole thing is very odd, but never commented on. I wonder if this will make the 4th season easier to bring to DVD, because you pretty much just have to clear the Outer Limits music.
     
  15. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Just a guess but maybe not spending money (or as much money) on a score each episode was something that they had to do because of the higher budget.
     
  16. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    Actually, the change in library music came at the time Alan Armer left as producer to take over "The Invaders" and the new producer decided the show needed to be spruced up with new library music, hence the reason why "Outer Limits" was now being drawn from.
     
  17. Harry-N

    Harry-N Cinematographer

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    Library music was a fairly common thing back in the '60s. And it was allowed - unlike now. Today's rules prohibit the re-use of music without paying the original creators again, so most shows opt for totally new music in each episode.

    But it's those old familiar cues that sometimes MADE those old shows what they are. You just knew that when Kirk encountered some lovely female, you'd witness two things. She'd be filmed in soft-focus, and the lovely flute score would be playing in the background.

    Back in the final year of THE FUGITIVE, a lot of OUTER LIMITS music was used - and it fit as well in THE FUGITIVE as the TWILIGHT ZONE cues did. Remember that we're talking about the 1966-1967 TV season, and the old OUTER LIMITS Dominic Frontiere cues hadn't been heard since the 1963-1964 season. Three full years had passed, and shows like OUTER LIMITS didn't rerun all that often.

    So the music was both fresh, yet familiar, and was quite effective as backing for THE FUGITIVE. Meanwhile, the Rugolo cues don't totally disappear in Season Four. They still open many of the Acts as before, and get their share of use. It's what always grounded the series, and why it seemed SO wrong when they were replaced on that S2V1 DVD set.

    Harry
     

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