The Eternal Beatles Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Nick_G]

quote:

""No Reply"; I just love that part where John sings "If I were you..." and then the handclaps and Paul's harmony vocals come crashing in. Amazing."

agreed 100%!!!!!

all beatle fans have their fave songs and albums. some of us love "revolver" and others say it's overated. some love the "white album" and others say it overated. some people dismiss the early stuff (which i happen to love more that anything they did after sgt. pepper). when it comes to the beatles, no one opinion is right or wrong. what made them so great was the diversity and style of their music over the years they were together. from the simplicity of "i want to hold your hand" to the complexity of "i am the walrus". and actually if you really listen to some of the early stuff, it was not as simplistic as you may think. just because a lot of it was sweet love songs, there were some great chord progressions and tremendous harmonic vocal structure in a lot of them. try to pick out the vocal harmonies on "and your bird can sing"....quite complex when you give it a real listen. when i was attending music school, the instructors were always squawking about how you can't cross voices in vocal pieces. obviously they never listened to anything the beatles did. their harmonies completely blew out of the water what my instructors were telling me you COULDN'T do!!

no one before them did what they did, and anything after them was just pale comparison attempts at trying to copy them.

 

[MikeAW]

Am I the only one to be listening to the bootleg studio session and live stuff...any thoughts on what you all have heard ?

 

[Jack Gilvey]

To me, it may give you more insight and the ability to appreciate more than the layperson...but it gives one just a different perspective to appreciate....not an extratrodinarily authoritative one, in the sense, that a technician's opinion, may have more authority over one person or another.

Almost always "better informed", as I see it.

Regardless of the myriad pages written, I find Abbey Road anything but soulless.

 

[RicP]

Am I the only one to be listening to the bootleg studio session and live stuff...any thoughts on what you all have heard

Far from it. I have over 150 hours of material sitting right in front of me. I'd venture to say that I've heard more than pretty much anyone on this forum.

What point are you trying to make? After your first vitrolic post, I don't know if there are many Beatles fans that are interested in it.

For the record, most live Beatles stuff was poor. They didn't have much of a monitor system in those days, so most of the time the band couldn't even hear themselves playing. Couple that with the crowd noise and most live performances were less than spectacular.

Which studio material are you referring to?

 

[MikeAW]

"Am I the only one to be listening to the bootleg studio session and live stuff...any thoughts on what you all have heard ? "

Does Anyone else...please...have or hear this bootleg stuff and want to share your feelings about it, say compared with the finished versions they like ?

 

[Kevin Leonard]

Mike,
Like Ric, I too have a collection of "unofficial" Beatles material, though nowhere near the 150 hours he has! While I'd like to tell you what boots are great and what boots are bad, the forum has an anti-bootleg policy, which I why I stopped talking about it a few posts up.
But to answer your question: there's some great material out there that was not put on the various Anthology sets. But the majority of the stuff out there is just alternate versions of officially released songs, with mild to little difference. I mean, there's only so many takes of "Drive My Car" that one can listen to before they all start to sound the same.

 

[Gary_E]

I learned to play the guitar using a fake book of The Beatles early stuff. Lennon's songs from A Hard Day's Night translates nicely with a small group of players with acoustic guitars, bongos, and a harmonica. Last night in fact, I played I'll Cry Instead with a few friends at a

bar-b-que and it sounded really good.

Beatle songs make many people smile.

-Gary

 

[Derek Miner]

there's some great material out there that was not put on the various Anthology sets. But the majority of the stuff out there is just alternate versions of officially released songs, with mild to little difference. I mean, there's only so many takes of "Drive My Car" that one can listen to before they all start to sound the same.

I can understand that, however I do enjoy hearing the evolution of the songs in the studio. (Yes, even to the point of listening to ALL the unused backing track takes of "Help!") The second disc of Anthology 1 has some great samples of this, particularly the changes made to "Can't Buy Me Love" and "Eight Days A Week."

My favorite discovery of the Anthologies was the original take of "And Your Bird Can Sing." I wish they would give us a version without John & Paul's goof-off backing vocal attempts.

And I completely agree with Ric about live Beatles recordings. I could listen to hours of studio outtakes, but I think the live performances on the Anthology discs are more than enough for me.

 

[Kevin Leonard]

And I completely agree with Ric about live Beatles recordings. I could listen to hours of studio outtakes, but I think the live performances on the Anthology discs are more than enough for me.

Very true. Ever hear Beatles Live at the Hollywood Bowl? It's basically an album full of teenage banshee wails with an occasional musical sound coming out. Quite glad this never made it to CD; the mix is godawful.
However, if you can find it, I would suggest picking up Live at the BBC. It's a fantastic two-disc set with a lot of great covers (Carl Perkins, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, etc.) and nearly 60 songs total...though I wouldn't listen to both discs back-to-back; it can seriously try one's patience. I think BBC is out-of-print, but you can find it in most used music stores.

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Amazing that my son, age 11, wanted not only a cd player for Christmas, but also Beatles cds. I got him the Number 1 hits collection, but now he wants me to get him all the cds. He can't stop playing the music.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Very true. Ever hear Beatles Live at the Hollywood Bowl? It's basically an album full of teenage banshee wails with an occasional musical sound coming out. Quite glad this never made it to CD; the mix is godawful.

Hehe, I had that a long,long time ago, and a few years ago I found a mint copy in a used LP store. Certainly not the way you'd choose to record a concert today, but what a fun album. "Sing a song called "Boys" Ringo!"

 

[Philip Hamm]

Just don't get me started on McCartney. I could write volumes on how the man is....well, I'm not going to go there.

Well, for some interesting opionions on Paul, go here.

 

[Philip Hamm]

The Sex Pistols & Malcolm McClaren were the product of the malaise of music of the sixties and seventies. The Concept of the Group, had an acute understanding of the The Music Business, and was and aware of themselves as instruments of Change...to push the music forward, and in spite of it's stasis and state of constipation at the time. The group and it's cultivated "attitude" was a needed shot in the arm, that encouraged The Industry to invest in MANY new bands and genres of music.
With all of our Music Giants were gone or discipated, and knowing not where to go by this time other than thrashing out the same old crap, if it wasn't for the Sex Pistols, everyone would still be sitting on their fat arses
listening to "In Through The Out Door" and thinking it was something, well, important and groundbreaking. Or feeling Pete Townshend had something to contribute to music than that damn "Squeezebox" song. "Who Are You" was their final gurgling sound before The End...Moonies death just gave them a legitimate excuse to hang it all up...but they still didn't/don't get it...IT WAS OVER for them, and all the dinosaurs.

What a load of crap (IMO if course). The Sex Pistols were just a bunch of pissed off doped up punks (pun intended - I know - ) who listened to "My Generation" one time too many and decided that they couldn't deal with their heroes growing up. Their legitimate "rebellion" ended up being gimmick that the record companies exploited. They were just as much a product and piece of the "Music Business" as their "fallen" heroes, they just weren't smart enough to realize it before they fell apart and Syd ODed. Hell, DEVO was at least as important as the SP to the business as an agent of change (which the Music Industry thrives on). In choosing a Rolling Stones song, their fantastic cover of "Satisfaction" was an even more direct shot at the establishment than Syd's "My Way".
"In Through The Out Door", "The Who By Numbers", and "Who Are You" are fantastic albums. Just because they're not as "angry" or "fresh" as you think all music should be doesn't mean they're not brilliant. Can you honestly tell me that the fantastically irreverant "God Save The Queen" or explosive "Anarchy in the UK" is any more valid than Townshend's brutally honest introspective "Dreaming From The Waist" and "However Much I Booze"? And what's wrong with "Squeeze Box". I guess in your musical universe simple fun songs are somehow less musically "valid" than something either rebellious or musically complicated.
As a musician and a sometime songwriter I've got a little secret for you: Writing a simple yet catchy and memorable song like "Yesterday", "In My Life", or "Sqeeze Box" (or "Silly Love Songs" or "Imagine" or "Something" or "Let My Love Open The Door"....) is the most difficult act of musical creativity possible.
Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs, and what's wrong with that?

 

[Anthony Moore]

Great thread. Huge Beatles fan here. But im also a huge Paul solo fan.

How can someone argue that Flaming Pie isnt one of the best albums in the last decade? You cant get much better than this album with great song like Calico Skies and Songs We Were Singing.

My fave Beatles albums:

Help

Revolver

Sgt Peppers

 

[Philip Hamm]

How can someone argue that Flaming Pie isnt one of the best albums in the last decade?

I wouldn't argue against that. FP is definitely one of my favorites of the 90s no doubt. The most brilliant album from Paul since "Flowers In The Dirt", maybe since "Band On The Run" even. And I can't get his new album out of my head either.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Excellent post Phil, even though I don't agree with a lot of it.

Why is it that rock and music are the only genres where a musician is considered irelevant when they mature? Older jazz musicians are revered for their wisdom and experience. Younger players seek them out so that they can learn from them (the big exception to this was in the late 40s and 50s with the growth of be-bop, but that's another story). A classical composer is more respected when older.

Oh, but jazz and classical are about music, sorry, we can't have that in rock, we have to worried about image, style, and youth culture.

Sure, many rock musicians try to rehash their older glory. Sometims it's because they lack the ability to do more, sometimes it's because they are pressured to do so. However, plenty can still make good music, and whey should they follow some punks' formula?

I've said before that I don't "hate" any band or musician. Let me take that back: I hate the Sex Pistols. They did nothing for music except start a bunch of useless arguments. They are hypocrites in the extreme: getting famous by exploiting an image based on attacking others for exploiting images. What baloney. I like my music bullshit free, thank you very much.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

As a musician and a sometime songwriter I've got a little secret for you: Writing a simple yet catchy and memorable song like "Yesterday", "In My Life", or "Sqeeze Box" (or "Silly Love Songs" or "Imagine" or "Something" or "Let My Love Open The Door"....) is the most difficult act of musical creativity possible.

Absolutely. Any Ibanez-endorser worth his salt can make lots of notes picked from impressively obscure scales. I've long thought that a good song, good music, can come across on just a guitar or a piano. When flayed to its essense, as simple as it gets, it either works or it doesn't.

 

[Grant B]

I have both the capital release 'live at hollywood bowl' and the boot of it ( and also the shows at sam houston) and believe it or not, the screams were filtered down quite a bit on the official release. You can see why they didn't want them released.

I had most of the anthologys and the BBC before it came out.

It's amazing how well they cleaned it up.

Too Bad they never put out the Beatles "Rock & Roll Music" out on CD, it was a great double lp that put all of there loud music in one place.... and it still has the great quality to piss off the neighbors / parents / Mariah Carey fans etc...

Anyone else have a copy of 'beatles live in italy'???

i do ...not an easy one to track down

 

[Anthony Hom]

After seeing this thread go 3 pages, I have to say:

THIS IS GREAT.

It shows how diverse the Beatles were. Everyone who like the Beatles have their own material they like and it that's why the music still lives today.

The best way I have heard the Beatles music described as a time in the pop music era where the most popular was also one of the best. Very few artists can combine both aspects and some would not want the first aspect.

Unofficial releases - It true that most of these tracks don't interest most people or are deemed "not very good" John and Paul have been quoted many times that the best was what they released. They had bery few leftover tracks to create anything relevant or to their standards. Even when Rubber Soul came out, they had to scrounge for Help! leftovers to make up the balance (see Mark Lewisohns's the Complete recording sessions).

However, my opinion is: I love the outtakes. Its great to hear the multiple takes of I saw her standing there. Also, if you heard all 3 takes of Day Tripper, you can hear in take 1 that John was such a driving rhythm guitar player. With the lead bridge not inserted yet, it's amazing to hear him pounding on his chords.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I think BBC is out-of-print, but you can find it in most used music stores.

Dunno if it's officially OOP, but it's easy to find at non-used stores as well. I just got mine from Sam Goody.com a few months back, and they still list it as available. Amazon, Best Buy and CDNow also offer it without much/any delay, it appears. I can't say I'm wild about the package; I actually sold my original copy a few years back but recently reconsidered since I'd like to have it for archival purposes. Nonetheless, it's still out there at an e-tailer near you!