The Day of the Doctor (Doctor Who 50th Anniversary Special) (1 Viewer)

[Bryan Tuck]

Unfortunately, the blu-ray in all regions is the 24p slowed-down version. The DVD should play at the correct speed, as it's shot on videotape and will be a straight PAL/50 to NTSC/60 conversion.

You'd think. I took a chance and got the R1 DVD, and sure enough, it's slowed down as well (just like Day). I presume they just used the Blu-ray master and downconverted.

I guess this is a losing battle. The slowdown drives me crazy (especially with regards to what it does to the music), but hardly anyone else, including BBC, seems to care.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

You'd think. I took a chance and got the R1 DVD, and sure enough, it's slowed down as well (just like Day). I presume they just used the Blu-ray master and downconverted.

I guess this is a losing battle. The slowdown drives me crazy (especially with regards to what it does to the music), but hardly anyone else, including BBC, seems to care.

I guess the only current hope for an "original speed" release is if the Region 2/PAL DVD plays correctly (I have heard it does not have the stereo sound "phasing" problems that the blu-ray does, but have not heard whether audio/video are slowed down or not).

Another possibility is the special edition reissue that's already been announced.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

This is happening on TV broadcasts, too. The US syndicated HD version of Doc Martin: Series six also suffers from this horrible 24p slowdown. It's apparent from the very first second, when the opening theme music is pitched quite noticeably lower than before. The pitch on several of the voices, especially Ian MacNiece, stick out like a sore thumb. It's obvious these episodes were simply converted and not pitch-corrected. It really takes me "out of the show" and makes me not to even bother watching the rest until the Region 2 DVDs come out in March. Episode 2 (they've only shown two so far) was especially bad in this regard.

Series five (the first to be shot in HD) wasn't affected by slow-down. Presumably it was either converted to 1080i/60, or was (shudder) upscaled from a PAL master. Either is preferable to what's being supplied to PBS affiliates this time out.

I hope people complain loudly about this to their local PBS stations. I did.

Let me know how the R2 Series 6 DVDs of Doc Martin turn out.

I just sat down to watch the R1 discs, and the episodes are running around 49 minutes (compared with the usual 45-46 minute runtime of previous seasons) and everyone is sounding quite ponderous and low. Maybe I'm just imagining things, or, it's another case of R1 shenanigans.

If this keeps up, I'm just going to have to import everything British. It seems to be the only way to get the correct versions of the shows.

And even then, you still have to hope they don't use the same slowed down master for the UK discs, as has been done with the various Doctor Who specials.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Let me know how the R2 Series 6 DVDs of Doc Martin turn out.
...you still have to hope they don't use the same slowed down master for the UK discs, as has been done with the various Doctor Who specials.

Probably not, since this will be DVD (so, PAL/50hz), meaning it will make more sense to them to work from the existing 50hz masters than converting the "worldwide" one. However, Acorn is the new distributor in the UK (Momentum did the releases for Series 1-5), so since they also do the R1 discs, who knows?

UPDATE: I just checked the BBFC (film classification board) website, and they list series six as (approx.) 368 minutes (strangely, they lumped the whole series into one, rather than splitting the various episodes separately like they did in the past). If you divide that by eight episodes, it's roughly 46 minutes each, so it appears that Doc Martin Series six does, indeed, play at the proper speed on the Region 2 release.

Now, just to wait for the price to drop!

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Probably not, since this will be DVD (so, PAL/50hz), meaning it will make more sense to them to work from the existing 50hz masters than converting the "worldwide" one. However, Acorn is the new distributor in the UK (Momentum did the releases for Series 1-5), so since they also do the R1 discs, who knows?

UPDATE: I just checked the BBFC (film classification board) website, and they list series six as (approx.) 368 minutes (strangely, they lumped the whole series into one, rather than splitting the various episodes separately like they did in the past). If you divide that by eight episodes, it's roughly 46 minutes each, so it appears that Doc Martin Series six does, indeed, play at the proper speed on the Region 2 release.

Now, just to wait for the price to drop!

Yeah, 368 sounds right. The R1 release is approx. 384 minutes, which would add about 2 minutes per episode due to slowdown. So, R2, Here I come. I can't believe R1 got the latest season first, though.

I spared myself the slowdown debate for Call The Midwife S3 and just ordered it from the UK. Of course, I don't think that's even been aired in the US yet.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Yeah, 368 sounds right. The R1 release is approx. 384 minutes, which would add about 2 minutes per episode due to slowdown. So, R2, Here I come. I can't believe R1 got the latest season first, though.

I wondered about that, too, but when I found out that it was being released by a new distributor, I figured that might have been the reason for the delay. It's the first time the US got any Doc Martin series release ahead of the UK (and the reason it was by so many months makes me thing even more so it's due to Acorn taking over distribution).

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Thought I'd bump this back. I've finally upgraded my system (Sony STR-DN840 and Pioneer S22 speakers), and decided to give this another spin. I made sure everything was set to decode properly, and it still sounds flanged and phased. So this does not seem to be a result of downconverting from 5.1 to 2.0.

Dialogue and sound effects are affected somewhat, but it's particularly when the music kicks in that it's most obvious. A few examples:

- About 3 minutes in, during the opening credits, as the Doctor is hanging from the TARDIS.

- At 54-55 minutes in, as the three Doctors explode out of the painting and walk into UNIT.

- At an hour and 10 minutes in, as the Doctors prepare to freeze Gallifrey.

- Pretty much any time we hear brass in the score.

I'm amazed at all the glowing reviews for the audio on this disc. I've only found a few message board posts here and there (besides mine) that mention the flanging, but to me it sounds terrible. Something like this should never have made it past QC (these issues also affect the R1 DVD).

I'm slowly accepting the 24p slowdown. I wish they wouldn't do it, but judging from other BBC releases, it doesn't look like that policy is going to change anytime soon. But there's no excuse for the audio sounding like this. If it's related to the slowdown, they apparently found a way to fix it, as Time of the Doctor sounds fine (aside from being at the wrong speed, of course).

No luck from the few times I tried contacting BBC; either they don't care, or I'm just going through the wrong channels.

Is anyone else in this thread hearing what I'm hearing? I'm wondering if I really did just get a bad disc.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Hi Bryan -- I haven't heard anything like that on my disc, but in complete fairness, at the moment all I've had to view it on has been the speakers on my TV. So I'm not exactly getting an audiophile level of presentation in the first place. In a few weeks, I'm set to move into a new place, and I've got surround sound speakers and a receiver on order, and a girlfriend eager to rewatch it before the new season premieres, so I will definitely keep an eye out for those things then.

I don't know if this makes a difference or not, but I saw "Day of the Doctor" as part of the theatrical event the BBC put together. Theatrically it had the same running length as the Blu-ray. In between the theatrical run and the Blu-ray release, I did, umm, acquire a digital copy of the UK broadcast, which was encoded at 25fps. I didn't really notice any huge differences from the different speeds, but there's something maybe slightly subconscious that I picked up... the UK/25fps version "feels" a lot faster paced to me, even though it's a mere two or three minutes shorter.

I absolutely love Murray Gold's score for these shows, and his "I Am The Doctor" theme for Matt Smith is just genius -- my favorite piece of music from the show, and I was really delighted when I read an interview with Murray Gold and he said it was his favorite bit of score that he had written too. I think that's what I'll miss most with the new doctor. I'd like to think if that favorite piece of music of mine was coming through distorted in some way that I'd hear it... but I also know that my TV speakers kinda suck, so it's hard to tell.

(Sorry for the non-answer.)

 

[Tom St Jones]

I bought the region-free UK Blu-ray version of TDOTD. While the main feature plays just fine on my Region A Sony Bluray player (I live in the U.S.), for some reason none of the bonus content will play. I tried it in another player and got the same result - when I click on a bonus feature it appears (for a milisecond) to comply but then goes right to main menu again. It's as if the bonus features aren't on the disc at all. Have there been any reports of defective UK copies/ copies missing the bonus content?

 

[The Obsolete Man]

I bought the region-free UK Blu-ray version of TDOTD. While the main feature plays just fine on my Region A Sony Bluray player (I live in the U.S.), for some reason none of the bonus content will play. I tried it in another player and got the same result - when I click on a bonus feature it appears (for a milisecond) to comply but then goes right to main menu again. It's as if the bonus features aren't on the disc at all. Have there been any reports of defective UK copies/ copies missing the bonus content?

Nope, that's par for the course with the "region free" discs from the UK in region A players.

The main content itself is indeed region free and playable everywhere. The bonus material isn't compatible with US players. If you look around the net, you'll see people importing to the States have that issue with all the series, not just this special.

So it's not the disc that's defective, it's your equipment that won't let the bonus features play.

 

[Worth]

The bonus stuff is probably either PAL or 1080i/50. Some players and displays are compatible with that, some aren't.

 

[Tom St Jones]

Nope, that's par for the course with the "region free" discs from the UK in region A players.

The main content itself is indeed region free and playable everywhere. The bonus material isn't compatible with US players. If you look around the net, you'll see people importing to the States have that issue with all the series, not just this special.

So it's not the disc that's defective, it's your equipment that won't let the bonus features play.

Actually, I've a number of other Region-Free/ UK discs (mostly theatrical movies, not TV stuff) which have not had any problems playing bonus features.
Unless you're referring specifically to DR. WHO region-free discs (including or not including "Spearhead from Space" and the '96 Movie)?

 

[AndyMcKinney]

ALL of the UK blu-rays for Doctor Who beginning with series five forward are in their original broadcast format, of 1080i/50hz, which, as has been said, is compatible with many US blu-ray players and/or televisions.

Which is as it should be (before any of you complain). The show was produced in 50i, so it's only fair that the UK audience should be able to see it in its original refresh rate without having to put up with a standards conversion. The previous blu-rays of the show (The Specials) were 60hz conversions, and there were (rightfully) some complaints, so now, UK discs are 50i, and US discs are either 60i or slowed-down to 24fps.

The reason the main feature on Day of the Doctor plays in the US is that there is no 50hz option in the specification for 3D, so they had to convert the picture to 24fps on the 3D version, but all of the rest of the special features would have been the original UK standard format, of 1080i/50 for HD, or PAL for standard-def content.

So, unless your player can't convert the content to 60hz (or your player and TV are both okay with 50hz), then you really shouldn't import any UK blu-rays. So glad my players (Oppo) and TVs (Sharp Aquos) are fully 50/60 hz compatible.

Here is a quote from me on an earlier thread on this same topic:

Someone on another forum said that the UK blu-ray for The Day of the Doctor is 24fps (for the episode, not the bonus features), just like the US edition. Apparently, Blu-ray 3D content has to be 24fps. The episode content is 24fps for both versions as per the US disc (meaning the UK viewers are getting shafted by not having the as-broadcast 1080i/50 version on the UK release).

Now, whether the special was shot at 24p (or the usual 25p), I don't know, but I think certain UK fans who saw the broadcast and saw it at the cinema said they felt the cinema presentation was slowed down, rather than the TV version being sped-up.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere else that the only place to get the proper 50i version of Day of the Doctor (the 2D version, not 3D) is on the "50th Anniversary Boxset" (which was released in the UK and Australia).

 

[Bryan Tuck]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere else that the only place to get the proper 50i version of Day of the Doctor (the 2D version, not 3D) is on the "50th Anniversary Boxset" (which was released in the UK and Australia).

And only the re-release of the box set at that.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

ALL of the UK blu-rays for Doctor Who beginning with series five forward are in their original broadcast format, of 1080i/50hz, which, as has been said, is compatible with many US blu-ray players and/or televisions.

Which is as it should be (before any of you complain). The show was produced in 50i, so it's only fair that the UK audience should be able to see it in its original refresh rate without having to put up with a standards conversion. The previous blu-rays of the show (The Specials) were 60hz conversions, and there were (rightfully) some complaints, so now, UK discs are 50i, and US discs are either 60i or slowed-down to 24fps.

It absolutely makes sense that the UK releases are 1080i50. I just wish the US releases were still 1080i60. I found the conversion far less objectionable than the slowdown for the 1080p24 releases.

It was a real missed opportunity when they rolled out the Blu-Ray spec that they didn't make support for 24fps, 25fps and 29.97fps mandatory for all regions. Would have solved a lot of these problems with international releases.

 

[Tom St Jones]

The reason the main feature on Day of the Doctor plays in the US is that there is no 50hz option in the specification for 3D, so they had to convert the picture to 24fps on the 3D version, but all of the rest of the special features would have been the original UK standard format, of 1080i/50 for HD, or PAL for standard-def content.

So, unless your player can't convert the content to 60hz (or your player and TV are both okay with 50hz), then you really shouldn't import any UK blu-rays. So glad my players (Oppo) and TVs (Sharp Aquos) are fully 50/60 hz compatible.

My TV and player are ok with 50hz. Anyway, as long as it doesn't hurt my eyes or look like a cheap soap opera (or worse, video unhandily converted to film), I'm okay with it til I can upgrade to a better system, multi-region player, etc.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

It absolutely makes sense that the UK releases are 1080i50. I just wish the US releases were still 1080i60. I found the conversion far less objectionable than the slowdown for the 1080p24 releases.

Very much in agreement on that. I can't even make myself watch the HD seasons of Doc Martin on PBS (or the US BD/DVD releases) because they've chosen the horrendous 24p slowdown method for conversion, which isn't even pitch-corrected, so everyone's talking low-n-slow. I have had to either wait for the UK DVDs (or recordings of UK broadcasts) to be able to watch this show.

It was a real missed opportunity when they rolled out the Blu-Ray spec that they didn't make support for 24fps, 25fps and 29.97fps mandatory for all regions. Would have solved a lot of these problems with international releases.

I suspect it wasn't so much a missed opportunity, but rather the US movie industry, the BD forum and TV manufacturers colluding once again to try to discourage imports. On the studios and BD forum side it's to discourage people importing software worldwide, while with the TV manufacturers, it's to discourage people outside the USA from importing cheaper US televisions.

And, once again, at least the hardware incompatibilities are all a USA problem...people in Europe and other regions have been multi-standard compatible for decades (unless they're using an ancient TV) and, of course, still are. Their only hurdle is region coding.