The day I got scared almost to death (1 Viewer)

[Bill Catherall]

Floating orbs are not "normal activity." And if these orbs are in fact caused by some kind of normal, explanable physical phenomenon (instead of being a figment of an imagination) then why can't they be recreated? Wouldn't you think they would be a common sighting at big conventions and dance clubs? I know if I was a DJ I'd make floating orbs part of my light show.

 

[RobertR]

And if these orbs are in fact caused by some kind of normal, explanable physical phenomenon (instead of being a figment of an imagination) then why can't they be recreated?

If a natural phenomenon is difficult to recreate artificially, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that it is indeed a natural phenomenon (as opposed to a supernatural one).

 

[Trevor Schell]

The day I got scared almost to death.

Last night we watched Jeepers Creepers.
That was one freeking scary movie.

 

[Scott Hayes]

Last night we watched Jeepers Creepers.

Oh Yea!! That was a great movie. Definitly gave ya the willies.

 

[Ryan Wright]

My sons were home alone and they claimed to have seen a friend of my significant other walk through the house. She searched the house but didn't see any sign of her friend. She later found out her friend had been killed in a car accident right before our kids saw her.

When my grandfather (father's side) died, my father felt his presence. He came in the house and said he didn't see anything, but he was positive his dad was standing there. It wasn't long after that (a couple of hours? I don't recall, but it was later the same day) the phone rang and we were informed of his death.
There is no explanation for something like this other than the supernatural. Maybe he (his spirit) visited his son shortly after or during death. Maybe humans have telepathic abilities that we have not yet learned to tap into, but that sometimes come to life on their own and give us these feelings. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but I've heard too many people speak of the same damn experience to believe that. Something that we know little to nothing about is at work here. Period.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Am I the only guy on this forum who wants to be haunted by ghosts? Ryan, you're pretty lucky. I'm serious, I want to see these ghosts. If only I couldn't been through what Scott went through.

Like I said, I thought I saw my grandmother's ghost, but I've already dismissed it as a figment of my imagination from regret. Sheesh, it's like I'm living in the world's most boring place (Lexington, KY to be exact). Why does stuff like this never happen to me?

 

[Eve T]

Someone asked that I post pics of these "orbs" If you want I can email them to you. I don't have a website where I can put them up. I will add that whoever see's these pictures that they have been investigated. They were taken inside my home which rules out percipitation ( I may have spelled that wrong) also no reflective objects were around to make those things, numerous pictures were taken in a row and the orbs only showed up on several pictures. They seem to always be in pictures with me, but not my family members?? And as far as science goes...maybe science can tell me why things kind of get tossed around in my house, such as... I have a ball in the living room, it was behind the couch, my husband and I were on floor in the living room watching tv, no other "soul" was in the house, and yet we hear a noise and find that the ball had been moved from behind the couch and thrown down the stairs...as if someone tossed it down there. Kind of creepy. I have other stories, some that I won't repeat due to the fact that they scared me so bad, but the tossing of the ball thing and the fact that my doors sometimes open and close on their own before my eyes..makes me think maybe we don't know all we think we know about anything.

Anywayz, I like this message board. Cool peeps, thanks for letting me add...

my 2 cents worth.

Eve[/size][/font]

 

[Bill Catherall]

If a natural phenomenon is difficult to recreate artificially, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that it is indeed a natural phenomenon (as opposed to a supernatural one).

Perhaps I didn't state myself clearly. I can see how I was misunderstood. What I meant was that if we know and understand the natural causes of a phenomenon than we can recreate it. Even if on a smaller scale. That's how theories are proven. It's the scientific way. Recreation is not how we prove something to be natural, but it's how we prove we fully understand it. On the other hand, something like gravity (perfectly natural) can't be simulated because we don't know what causes it. But we understand it well enough to put it to good use. I believe that all "supernatural" events are caused by "natural" causes, but we may not fully understand the mechanisms yet.
Also, perhaps I missed the episode about the floating orbs on TLC, but I haven't ever heard a plausible explanation for them. Anybody (especially those that seem to know the answer...Ike ) care to enlighten us?
Just a little friendly reminder to everyone involved in the debate and you lurkers out there...I have not been offended at all throughout this discussion, and I hope no one else has either. This has been a very civil, friendly discussion in my opinion and it would be sad for anybody to take it to a disagreeable level. If anybody has been offended please accept my apology. No harm has been meant. I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument.
Eve - I would like to see the pics (email removed). But I'd like a clarification on the orbs. Are you saying you've seen the orbs and have taken pictures, or the orbs are appearing only in photos? There's a big difference to me, and any possible scientific explanation would require that knowledge.
Edited to remove email address. No web-bots wanted!

 

[Scott Hayes]

I'm glad my little story has had such a good responce. It's been great hearing all of your ideas and personnel stories.
I like this section of HTF. Its good to know that people can have wildly differant view points and ideas and be able to discuss them in a friendly fun atmosphere. (getting help and helping others with home theater question is a plus also )

Just a little friendly reminder to everyone involved in the debate and you lurkers out there...I have not been offended at all throughout this discussion, and I hope no one else has either. This has been a very civil, friendly discussion in my opinion and it would be sad for anybody to take it to a disagreeable level. If anybody has been offended please accept my apology. No harm has been meant. I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument.

Amen to that brother!!
Back to the supernatural/oddocurances discussion...
I did see part of a show on TLC about a family who saw orbs in there house. If I remember correctly the phenomenon was caught with differant cameras. If I remeber correctly most of the people who had studied, it thought it was an elecrical event. I dont believe they could explain further though.
Another oddity that has always fascinated me was spontanious human combustion. In fact this past Monday on TLC they ran thier Top Ten Unexplained Mysteries episode and they did a segment about this. Some of the photos they showed were incredible. How these bodies can burn so fast and so hot yet not burn thru the furniture the victims were using is a mystery.
I guess the world would be rather boring if we could explain everything. What would be the point to bettering ourselves if we knew all there was to know about life, nature and the universe around us. Still, I want to know everything

 

[Henry Carmona]

EVE,
Plz send me all the pictures you are willing to.
[email protected]
Thanks.

 

[Bill Catherall]

Regarding spontanious human combustion: I've seen one theory that states that it isn't an instant reaction. What happens is that the clothes of the victim get some perfume or alcohol spilled on them creating a point of easy ignition. Then because of either drinking or a knock to the head they fall unconscience. If they happen to be smoking or near a fire a spark or flame will ignite the alcohol on the clothes setting the clothes on fire. The body fat then acts as a fuel to keep the clothes burning, much like a wick in a candle. The slow, low flame burning will eventually turn the entire body to ash over many hours, not instantly. And because the flames are so low nothing else in the house gets burned. However, the flames are intensily hot and may melt some plastic items that are at high elevations.

One group of scientists tried this experiment out on a dead pig and it prooved successful. The flames were even intense enough to burn through the bones...something cremation can't even do.

Does that mean that this is the exact way all spontanious combustion victims died? No. It just describes one way for this phenomenon to occur. It's possible that this is what happened to some, but we can't jump to the conclusion that this was the case for all. Same goes for all ghost and UFO sightings/experiences.

 

[Iain Lambert]

There is one big difference with neon lights though; you can reproduce the thing at will and test it to see when it works and when it doesn't. The fact that you can't build a reproducible case of a ghostly appearance makes it rather more difficult to study.

Actually, there have been many cases where apparent ghostly activity has been reproducible - thats when it gets tracked down and identified as something else. Did you know that subjecting yourself to 19Hz tones for too long causes hallucinations and eerie feelings of being watched? After having found the almost subliminal jump-cuts in SE7EN and Fight Club I'm really glad that Fincher doesn't...

(edit to provide more info) 19Hz is the resonant frequency of the eyeball, so even if you didn't have other strange things going on in your head you end up with a strange shimmering effect in the corner of your vision, like there's someone you can't quite see. There was a study in the 'haunted' catacombs of Edinburgh a while back, and they found that the ambient noise volume at 19Hz (caused by wind and room shape) was roughly proportional to the number of hauntings reported in rooms.

 

[Julie K]

Actually, there have been many cases where apparent ghostly activity has been reproducible - thats when it gets tracked down and identified as something else.

Yes. People get upset when science 'brushes off' these events, but don't realize that science has already repeatedly explained them in very mundane, non-supernatural terms. I think people would really rather believe in spirits, ghosts, and other things than the more disturbing, but less exciting, fact that the human brain can be easily tricked and is highly susceptible to the power of suggestion.
I know that I will be labeled, as usual, someone with a closed mind to the unknown. But I would ask those who immediately jump to the supernatural explanation to stop closing your mind to the scientific explanation. (And maybe suscribe to the Skeptical Inquirer )

 

[Kevin P]

19Hz is the resonant frequency of the eyeball...

So, I could create a 19hz tone, burn it to CD, and play it my system with my SVS sub cranked and I'd start seeing ghosts? Cool, if it works maybe I'll use it as a Halloween prop.
That might explain some "sightings", but probably not all. Like I've said before, many sightings can be explained by natural or manmade occurrences, but then there's those that can't. Those are the "supernatural", or phenomenon we don't yet understand, taking place.
Someday, just maybe, we will understand, and all those ghost, UFO, abduction, etc. sightings will then make perfect sense.
KJP

 

[Ike]

Someone post the pictures on here once you get them, if, of course, Eve doesn't mind.

 

[Iain Lambert]

Oh I don't for one minute think that we've found explanations for everything - if we had then scientists might as well pack their things and go home now; theres no more work to be done here.

What I do doubt, however, is that when we do manage to find a cause for a phenomenon we don't currently understand is that the answer will turn out to be 'its the spirits of the dead come back to tell us off'. Otherwise Fermat would have probably explained his proof a long time ago.

Oh, and yes, you could have fun and games with 19Hz (or thereabouts - 18.9 is often more effective apparently) tones, but you'll probably get a massive headache, and its apparently a whole bunch of no fun according to those who have done it.

 

[Bill Catherall]

If you blow on the back of someone's neck just right you can make their hair stand on end. Does that mean that if the hair on my neck is standing up someone must be blowing on my neck? No! Just because a rock can cause ripples when dropped in a pool it doesn't mean that all ripples are caused by falling rocks.

There is one big difference with neon lights though; you can reproduce the thing at will and test it to see when it works and when it doesn't.

In order to reproduce the neon lights you'd have to understand the principals that govern how it works. That's my point. Just because you can "conjure up ghosts" with a 19Hz tone doesn't mean that that's the mechanism that has been causing all ghost sightings. And as Iain stated, there's a side effect to the 19Hz tone that isn't there with most ghost sightings. So that theory can pretty much be dismissed.
I have no problem with science being able to "explain away" seemingly supernatural events...if, and only if, the conclusions drawn are because of diligent study and unbiased testing. If a feeling someone has is caused by high powered magnetic interference...great! But there's no way you can jump to conclusions about all such feelings. I don't close my mind to scientific discovery, but I find it funny that once one theory is stated everybody signs off as that being the answer. Why can't some skeptics accept the fact that perhaps there is such thing as ghosts...and equally, why can't some "believers" accept the proven scientific answers? Personally I'm inbetween both camps. I guess that makes me a scientific believer.
By the way Julie, I read The Whisperer in the Darkness.

 

[Eve T]

Henry Carmona, I sent you some pictures, let me know if you got them okay?

Eve

 

[BrianW]

I wish the scientific world didnt turn down its nose at the so called supernatural.

Science is as science does. It is the job of science to understand and explain nature – nothing more. However, one of the rules of science is that explaining nature can be done by using only the things found in nature. All things supernatural, by definition, are outside of nature and are not allowable for consideration in any scientific endeavor. So science does not “turn down its nose” at the supernatural – it’s just that supernatural events, by definition, are not allowable subjects for scientific study. Further, supernatural events also cannot serve as scientific explanations for natural phenomena. Those are simply the rules of the discipline. If you want someone to address the supernatural, then turn to someone other than a scientist. It’s simply not his job.

As for the scientific world being arrogant and claiming to have, if not all the answers, all the tools required to find the answers: Nothing could be further from the truth. Scientists will be the first to volunteer that increasing our understanding of nature does not necessarily reveal truth. Although the goal of science is to understand all of nature, no self-respecting scientist will proclaim this to be an attainable goal any time soon. Far from being arrogant, a true scientist is likely to be one of the most humble people you will ever meet.

And just because the scientific world disqualifies supernatural events as scientific explanations does not mean that scientists don’t believe in the supernatural. Indeed, many scientists believe in a deity and participate in the activities of their local houses of worship. Just because the rules of science disallow the study of the supernatural doesn’t mean that scientists believe supernatural/spiritual matters are not important and cannot lend help in the pursuit of truth. But if deities, demons, angels, and ghosts exist, then you must rely on a process other than science to deal with them. Asking a scientist to incorporate supernatural phenomena into his theories of nature would be like commissioning a composer to fix leaky plumbing with a symphony. Should plumbers be offended that the musical community “turns down its nose” at the so-called plumbing leaks by refusing to address the issue in its compositions? Get real.

 

[RobertR]

why can't some "believers" accept the proven scientific answers?

Skeptics and believers approach things very differently. The believer has a deep mistrust of science, especially since it gives “mundane” explanations for things he finds exciting (“gee, you spoiled my fun!”). The skeptic, on the other hand, thinks that reason and the scientific method produce a world that is both exciting and understandable, and produces much more practical results (I fly in planes built by engineers. I’ve yet to see anyone fly on a magic carpet).