The Chaplin Collection (Warner and M2K): reactions? (1 Viewer)

[Bill Burns]

Roderick -- Blind Husbands/The Great Gabbo called to me (the latter film in particular -- but if you haven't seen it, that isn't funny ... never mind) from a local B&M, believe it or not; I was shocked to see it on a Borders shelf, and swiftly grabbed it after only a bit of hemming and hawing over its full MSRP list price (Borders usually discounts by at least 10%). I held off on buying the three on-line because of my experience with the William Wyler collection -- the serviceable but generally poor (16mm?) element used for Counsellor At Law, the brief video glitch (two or three frames in duration, if memory serves*) in the otherwise excellent (what a beautiful, sparkling transfer!) Love Trap, and the disc that was missing entirely from The Good Fairy. Thanks again, by the way, for the contact info at Kino if that ever happens again.

But at any rate, because of that bad experience, I decided to wait until reviews were in for the Stroheims. In particular, I didn't want to buy Foolish Wives again until I knew how it compared to the lackluster, but perhaps as good as could be expected, Image edition, which I also own. So far, zilch. I haven't heard any comparative reviews at all. But I'd somehow overlooked that the Blind Husbands DVD has another full feature on it, an early talkie/musical in fact (who knew it would be so truly creepy? Maybe it's just me), so that seemed like a safe bet, even at full MSRP ($15 per feature, and there are a few brief but welcome supplements as well). So I went ahead and gave Borders my business on that title. But I don't yet own the other two -- I fully expect to buy Queen Kelly sometime soon (I'd prefer an on-line discount to paying full MSRP, though), but I'm going to wait until definite word comes from some quarter on improvements, if there are any to be found, in the Kino Foolish Wives.

So far as e-tailers are concerned, I've just checked amazon.com and they list all three as shipping within 24 hours. You're right about DVDEmpire -- the only Foolish Wife ... er, Foolish Wives they list is/are Image's. The other two titles are, oddly, listed as pre-orders that have not yet been released. Hmph. This means they're still nicely discounted, though. Not so Amazon: unfortunately, as is usual for Amazon on titles that have been released and carry high MSRP's, they're only discounted 10%, so they remain a bit steep. Amazon pre-orders usually sport a more pleasant 25% discount, and some of the cheaper titles ($19.99 and less) have been known to carry 15%-25% discounts indefinitely.

If you have a chance to compare the Foolish Wives in all their glory, be sure to post a reaction. I have Tempest on my plate at the moment, which I'm very eager to see for the first time (oh, that Camilla Horn! Yikes; but seriously, John Barrymore in front of the camera, William Cameron Menzies working behind the scenes, Charles Rosher shooting it, several respected directors working one after the other to finish it ... and it even qualifies as a Stroheim film, because he penned the original screenplay! My hopes are high).

*In the scene where the heroine's dress is dropped from the balcony by her assailant, there's a brief moment where the picture is beset by a series of small colored squares, and the audio pops as well. Only a few frames in duration, if that, it passes very quickly at full motion, but pausing and frame advancing reveals just what it is -- and I'd guess the culprit, in this case, is the compression. It doesn't look like a tape glitch. The disc surface was made immaculate with a bit of cleaning (it arrived from Kino with fingerprints shortly after release, by way of pre-order, so I'd guess it was hand packed at the factory), but the problem remained. I detailed all of this once before, on some thread or another, but for a film presented so beautifully, and on a disc whose supplements, alongside the feature, make of it a truly great value, such a problem is really unfortunate.

P.S. I, too, much prefer Keaton to Chaplin, but value both (City Lights remains one of the most heartbreaking films I've ever seen, and it's often hilarious, as well -- what a combination). I haven't seen enough of Lloyd to compare him adequately with his peers, though.

 

[Roderick Gauci]

Well, thanks to your tireless promotion of the various Silent films on DVD, I have now placed an order for all three of Kino’s Erich von Stroheim discs – I’ve found them reasonably priced at CD Universe and I was not about to let them go, especially since the staff at DVD Empire seem blatantly ignorant of the fact that the Image and Kino editions of FOOLISH WIVES (1922) are not one and the same!!

Actually, I do not have the Image DVD of FOOLISH WIVES, so I can’t compare them; in fact, I only managed to watch all three films for the first time in September of last year during a von Stroheim retrospective at London’s NFT (my brother and I made an 11-day stay there expressly for this purpose)!

Regarding Harold Lloyd, I’ve watched a number of his features, both Silent - SAFETY LAST (1923), THE KID BROTHER (1927), SPEEDY (1928) – and Talkie – FEET FIRST (1930), MOVIE CRAZY (1932), THE CAT’S PAW (1934), THE SIN OF HAROLD DIDDLEBOCK (1946). His work in the Silent era seriously rivals Chaplin’s, in my opinion, if not quite reaching the genuinely sublime levels attained by Keaton (undoubtedly, the greatest screen comedian of them all). Consequently, I really wish they are released on DVD (preferably with all the stops out) and though the Lloyd Estate have been dragging their feet for a long time already, I just hope they don’t opt for ‘revised’ version of the comedian’s films like the Chaplin family did – even if this was done according to the man’s own wishes!!

 

[oscar_merkx]

I gotta agree with Roderick there Bill about your dedication to Silents.

The only silent I have at the moment is R2 of John Ford's The Iron Horse from 1925. Superb and stunning indeed, like a prelude to Leone's Once Upon A Time in the West for later in the year.

Bill & Roderick

What would you recommend that I start off with then besides Charlie Chaplin ofcourse

Regards

Oscar

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Question....

How cheaply are some of you buying these sets?

I heard Costco has it for $60

Others are buying it for $55 or maybe even less.

 

[John Hodson]

Currently around $57 (I paid $54) from dvdsoon.com delivered.

---
So many films, so little time...

 

[Derek_McL]

Roderick would you believe I also saw Foolish Wives for the first time in that same NFT season last September. As some have said on this thread I bemoan the lack of reviews of the new Kino edition as I would have thought this should be treated as quite a high profile release (indeed include all three new Von Stroheim discs in that) what with the number of extras which rarely accompany a silent film. Very few have audio commentaries and I'm particularly looking forward to the documentary on Von Stroheim's life and career The Man You Will Love To Hate (has anyone seen this ?).

Ever since the episode of the Hollywood TV series on autocratic directors : one half on Von Stroheim, the other on DeMille I've been fascinated by Erich. Greed is definitely his masterpiece and hopefully will turn up in the Warners' silents series.

To give the Lloyd Estate their due they seem to have meticulously restored the films judging by the reaction to a festival of TCM screenings in the US (sadly unavailable to us here in the UK). The only versions of many of the Lloyd films I've seen were heavily cut apart from Thames' versions of Safety Last!,Girl Shy,Hot Water,The Kid Brother and Speedy produced about a decade ago although some are still available on VHS along with the talkies Feet First, Movie Crazy and The Cat's Paw. Even these ten year old versions look fine to me and as far as I know all the Lloyd films controlled by the Trust have been restored to their original form,no re-edits or daddy versions here.

No, the problem is the release of these films on DVD doesn't seem to be the priority of the organisation that controls them or if it is they have faced problems getting appropriate DVD distributors interested at the price they've quoted. Compared with Chaplin and Keaton these films have been very rarely seen over the years (the groups with the rights have maintained very strict control over them)and only film comedy or silent fans are likely to be interested in the DVDs.

Oscar : recommendations for silents ; that's a difficult one,it really depends on the types of movies you enjoy as just about every genre (except the musical of course) has silent classics.

Interesting your comment on The Iron Horse I've been thinking about picking up that one for a while.
I like westerns but they're not my favourite type of movie I was interested because it is a Photoplay production in other words a Kevin Brownlow restoration but slightly put off by the price (silents always seem to be expensive probably because of the extensive restoration work required). Another silent western I was thinking of purchasing was one starring William S. Hart : either The Toll Gate or Tumbleweeds (probably the latter because it includes a spectacular land rush sequence). Does anyone have either of these : what are they like ?

If you like action films you really can't go wrong with anything starring Douglas Fairbanks Snr : his Robin Hood makes an interesting comparison with the Errol Flynn version coming out soon. My favourite though has to be The Thief of Bagdad a wonderful Arabian Nights fantasy. I think there is a version in Region 2 with an audio commentary although as with all silents specfic titles can be hard to track down in stores.

If you like Chaplin Keaton is the next logical step : all his independent films (1920-1928) are available either in Region 1 or 2. Fopp in Glasgow had some (again like those Chaplins I mentioned the other week these appeared to be Region 2 versions of David Shepard restorations) a while ago at £5 each they might get them in again. Among these Seven Chances looks superb for a 1925 release with Steamboat Bill Junior not too far behind. The Sherlock Junior/Our Hospitality disc is probably as good an introduction to Keaton as any then you can take the plunge with his most famous film The General set during the American Civil War.

The Iron Horse I would have thought has epic feel to it : building the transcontinental railroad et al. If you like the epics the silent ones are the best of all. Despite its racist ideology D.W.Griffith's The Birth of A Nation (1915)is required viewing for any serious student of film. Intolerance is good too(if it a bit more heavy-going and ambitious what with its four interconnected stories set in different eras of history ) but the Eureka DVD I have isn't the best print quality probably you'd be advised to get a Region 1 DVD for that one.

There are so many others including Landmarks of Early Film : compilation of early film shorts (the Great Train Robbery etc), Slapstick Encyclopedia (wonderful collection of over 50 silent comedy shorts, very competitively priced!)DeMille's best epic Joan the Woman and Lon Chaney horrors (new version of Phantom coming and new Warner set with some of his lesser known work) all of which I would heartily recommend.

 

[oscar_merkx]

Derek

Thanks for those answers and it does seem like a good idea to go back to Fopp and get those Keaton DVDs for a fiver

 

[Bill Burns]

Ah, the glory days of early film.

Where to start? Well, first off, Oscar, I certainly agree with Derek. I'll try to break down a few recommendations for you as well; some of what follows I’ve said before, both here and on other threads, and others have also called attention to a few of these titles, but rather than try to edit and link between them, I’ll just cover everything that comes to mind:

I haven't seen The Iron Horse (though I've long wanted to, as a John Ford fan), but along the same genre lines there are three William S. Hart Westerns available on DVD (in Region 1), and they might be worth a gander. I've only seen one of them, Hell's Hinges, which I found very enjoyable, but Hart* was one of the most popular of feature length western stars in his era, very much a forerunner of John Wayne, so I'd dare say any film of his might prove of interest for Western fans. Hell's Hinges is currently available only as part of the Treasures From American Film Archives set (which I highly recommend), while the other two are out in single disc releases. Here are links to cover scans of all three at DVDEmpire, and note that you can view their back covers by clicking the "Back" links above and below the image, or more about the release in general, including order information, by clicking the "General" link in the upper left hand corner of the screen:

Hell's Hinges (part of the Treasures From American Film Archives set)

The Toll Gate (presented as a double feature with His Bitter Pill)

Tumbleweeds (some caution may be in order with this title, as it's from a sound print reissue and also a part of the Killiam Collection; there may, as a result, be speed issues with the transfer, and Killiam's prints have been known to exhibit rather severe wear and tear, contrast, and aperture cropping issues in the past; that said, Killiam appears to be an important resource for surviving film prints, one used by both Image and Kino on a number of occasions -- some of Kino's releases from the collection include television introductions filmed by Orson Welles and others back in the 60's, I believe, suggesting that the Killiam name has been around in silent preservation for quite some time -- and certain Killiam properties look better than others; nevertheless, be aware that this 1925 feature may, but may not, look quite right at sound speed, which was certainly the norm by about 1927, and some would argue earlier -- I can't say with certainty, as I haven't seen the picture myself, but there are films right up to the dawn of the sound era that need to be a bit slower than 24 fps in my experience, and in the experience of other critics whom I've read, so ... proceed with caution)

Westerns aside, my foremost recommendations are the boxed sets, some of which Derek mentioned. The releases I'd classify as "essential," in Region 1, are these (I'll follow the links with comments about each):

Slapstick Encyclopedia

Treasures from American Film Archives

The Origins of Film

The Art of Buster Keaton

Griffith Masterworks

The Movies Begin

Slapstick Encyclopedia is a true treasure, with outstanding prints for several of its works. Others, such as Oh Doctor!, have reportedly been further restored elsewhere (I understand that title offers original intertitles for its appearance in the Best Arbuckle/Keaton Collection set, whereas here the intertitles have been recreated, but I haven't seen that release), but as a one-stop shop for the wide variety of early short-form comedy, you just can't go wrong with Slapstick Encyclopedia. The Harry Langdon films are particular joys, in my estimation.

Treasures From American Film Archives, as discussed a bit earlier, is another terrific set. In addition to the Hart film, you'll find Toll of the Sea in this set, an early (the first?) full length two-strip Technicolor feature. It survives in all but its final reel as original negative materials, and looks quite pleasing here (one might compare it with Fairbanks' The Black Pirate, another two-strip Technicolor feature, to get a sense of its relative image quality, which is high in the absence of digital restoration). The final reel has been recreated with intertitles and a shot or two (I've forgotten how many off-hand) of the sea, made with a vintage two-strip camera in the 80's. There are two other feature films and a bevy of shorts as well. Some sound material is to be found, along with a bit of avant-garde stuff, and you'll likely only find some of it truly engaging -- but all four of the features are silent films, and the set, for my money, is worth owning just for these. None, to my knowledge, are available on DVD outside of the set. Be aware that the packaging leaves a bit to be desired, and discs may come loose in shipping. I found my copy at a B&M, where the shake test saved me from a copy with a loose disc. A later copy proved secure. Image has placed foam inserts into each sleeve to help keep discs in place, but overall the housing is decidedly less reliable than a trusty keepcase. I've found the sleeves, with their short hubs, to work fine for personal use, but one would hope for careful handling during shipment, as I doubt it would withstand even a single drop without discs popping loose.

The Origins of Film is a three disc set that I treat as a companion to Treasures from American Film Archives, though I have no idea of any of the same people worked on both. The content ranges from features to shorts, and early African-American cinema and samples of early animation are, for me, the big draw here. Their sampling of early films by women seems to neglect the fact that a great deal of early cinema was driven by talented women, from Frances Marion (who wrote Toll of the Sea, above) to Mary Pickford to others. Still, the material from female filmmakers presented here is entertaining and worthwhile, just be aware that some of the greatest silent films have women to thank for their existence, and nothing I'd call "great" shows up in this set.

The Art of Buster Keaton is a set of eleven discs with many feature and short works spread between them. It sounds as if these are also available from another company in Region 2, but here in Region 1 Kino has released these films, and the boxed set is the way to go, not only for the price break over the single releases, but also because the singles (with the exception of the eleventh bonus disc) were issued in snapper cases, whereas the set places them all in sturdy keepcases.

Griffith Masterworks, also from Kino, is a fascinating piece of cinematic history in a box. I haven't watched any of the shorts yet (note that Image has another collection of short Griffith films out there, as well, a two-disc set which contains a few titles not found in Kino's release; Kino's, of course , contains a few not found in Image's, so fans will want to own both), and I owned all of the features in their Image incarnations, but Kino has done a nice job of making these readily available at a fair price in nice keepcases. While I believe their edition of Birth of a Nation (apart from supplements and the short films found on the second disc of this release) is the same as Image's, the other films offer notable differences. First off, Intolerance here is from a completely new source, and looks absolutely fantastic. Image put out two editions of Intolerance (only one officially -- read on), both of which are now out of print, but the picture quality on Kino's edition improves drastically upon Image's: the frame is more open, revealing more picture information, the image itself is sharper and better detailed -- I'd hazard to say it was taken from either newly printed negative or dupe negative elements -- and I believe the speed is a touch faster, which actually improves the experience; I believe Image's disc is simply too slow. I usually feel the opposite about this things, and in the world of DVD it's far more common to find a silent presented too fast than one presented to slowly, but this is a rare instance -- again, among DVDs -- where the original edition may have been a bit too slow. There are a few minor supplements to compliment the feature, and overall, Kino has presented a definitive Intolerance experience. However -- you knew this was coming -- Image's edition features an alternate cut of the film, in which some material excised from the Kino edition is reinstated. The release history of the film suggests that both cuts are, in their way, correct, but if you want to know what happens to the baby in the modern story, for instance, you need the Image edition. If you want to know what happens to the baby in the version of the modern story (there are four storylines in Intolerance: ancient Judea, ancient Babylon, revolutionary France, and modern America) which was released on its own to theatres, you'll also need the Image edition (I believe; someone correct me if my memory proves faulty in any of this). So there are reasons to seek out the Image, but for the quality of the picture and the sheer pleasure of watching the film, Kino is the way to go.

Oh, and as to those two editions of the Image disc: Image first released Intolerance in a faulty disc that did not include an extensive text supplement it was meant to contain. This supplement includes details about the production and clips from (I think) one or two other Griffith films**, among them the fate of the child in the modern story as it was released on its own to theatres. It makes for a good read, but the clips are too few and I wouldn't necessarily buy the disc just for this. The alternate cut of the feature, though (which I understand also alters portions of the Babylonian sequences, but I haven't compared them to determine if this is so), might prove incentive enough to seek out Image. At any rate, after issuing the film without the promised supplement, the disc was eventually (after quite a delay in which it wasn't available at all) repressed and reissued. I wound up with two copies of the faulty disc, one copy of the corrected ... and now a copy of the Kino! Ack. The pains of collecting.

Oh yes, and one more important note: Kino's edition of Intolerance features a rather terrible audio glitch: while the menus are in stereo, and the newly recorded accompaniment to the feature is meant to be in stereo, when the feature starts, it's in mono. Worse yet, it doesn't decode to the center channel, but only the left, I think it is, suggesting that it was recorded as stereo, but the right channel is blank. Ack. This would be hideous (and why and how Kino has yet to advertise a fix for the problem, I do not understand), but happily there is a work-around: I find that when I dial in mock surround on my receiver (a Pioneer Dolby Pro-Logic model from the mid-90's), the music fills both the front and surround channels (I didn't note whether it places anything in the center channel), and it sound fairly good, believe it or not. I have to crank up the volume, because it's a signal that's really only intended to drive one speaker, but by doing so the sonic experience becomes satisfying. If you allow your receiver to pass the signal without alteration, though, you'll find it terrible, as, again, not only is it mono when it's intended as stereo, but it's recorded as stereo with one blank channel, so the mono occupies a stereo speaker, rather than the center channel speaker.

Anyway, the fix I found works well enough that I'm not terribly concerned. I also tried mock stereo, but the results were not as balanced and pleasing. Mock surround seemed to work best.

So ... where was I? Oh yes. Birth of a Nation, aside from the extensive bonus material and Biograph shorts, looks to be the same between Image and Kino. Intolerance improves dramatically in the Kino edition, but features an alternate cut and, I believe, projection speed (a superior speed, in my estimation). The audio glitch may bother some more than it has me, depending on the nature of your sound setup. Two other films are also presented: Broken Blossoms, which I haven't watched in this edition, but which I understand to be exactly the same as the earlier Kino edition, now with new cover art (I prefer the old art ), and Orphans of the Storm. Broken Blossoms was very pleasing in its earlier Kino edition, so I'm sure this will be just the same (Kino's improves upon Image's, which I actually threw away when I bought the original Kino reissue). Orphans is very tricky, however: it's possibly my favorite Griffith film (of the seven or eight I've seen), so its presentation matters a great deal to me, and Kino seems to have both improved upon and, at the same time, lessened the experience found on the Image disc. In Image's edition, the film is nicely color tinted, and somewhere or another (probably on Image's disc) one can find a history of the film's premiere that describes the use of not only tints, but colored lights thrown on the screen, etc.. Griffith was apparently very flamboyant in his presentation of the picture, and clearly the film should be tinted to recreate its maker's intent. Image tints it very nicely, but Kino doesn't tint a single frame (actually, I think the clips in the scene selection menu are tinted on Kino's edition, oddly, but none of the film itself is tinted). Image, however, repeats a brief section of the film toward its climax ("the greatest of orators gives his greatest oration," or something like that, is the title card that marks the repeated section, which I think is around 30 seconds of material or so), and Kino, I'm happy to say, has fixed this error. Kino does, however, introduce a brief video error to a frame or two of the kidnapping sequence, which I believe to be a compression error because (if memory serves; I last examined this a few months ago) color can be seen in the glitch. So which to favor? Some may want both; I gave away my Image copy in expectation of Kino's, so for the moment I'm stuck with Kino's. At some point I may actually repurchase Image's, as I think it's the truer experience, pound for pound. But Kino's isn't bad.

As a set, the Griffith Masterworks collection is a great purchase, I'd say. Don't forget that in addition to the features, you get a two disc collection of Biograph shorts (a second disc on their Birth of a Nation contains still more). Image's Biograph collection has a few titles not found in Kino's, and vice versa, as said earlier, so purchasing both may be of interest to collectors. If, however, you're purchasing the titles individually, I'd say go with Kino for Birth of a Nation, Intolerance (most definitely), and Broken Blossoms, go with Image for Orphans of the Storm, and make your decision accordingly between Image and Kino for the Biograph shorts.

The Movies Begin is another handsome (smaller -- "only" five discs in this one) set from Kino. I haven't yet had a chance to watch any of the discs therein, however, so I can't comment on quality. It's sitting on my shelf, though, so perhaps one day soon ... Note that two volumes from this set, with material somewhat re-arranged, I believe, were made available through Image and David Shepard prior to the release of Kino's set, which includes all of this material and more. The Image discs are called Landmarks of Early Film (I believe Derek mentions this one) and Landmarks of Early Film #2: George Melies, and are still available, I believe, but again all of their content and more is present in the (much more expensive) Movies Begin box.

There are other releases that might qualify as sets, but these are highlights. An example of another release that might be thought a "set" is The Best Arbuckle/Keaton Collection, which has two discs, and Kino has their own Arbuckle and Keaton releases, missing two or three of the film found on the Image set; Kino's discs are available as two individual releases, pricier than the Image collection, and to my understanding the tinting used on the Kino discs is absent from at least some, and perhaps all, of the Image A&Ks, but the Images offer superior picture quality on a few titles, and of course a few others not present in the Kinos, as mentioned. One film in Kino's set, whose title I don't have on hand at the moment -- it follows A&K out West, and I want to say it's called Out West, but that may not be right -- presents the entire short from a very poor 16mm source; Image's set only presents an excerpt from the film, but their excerpt is taken from 35mm. So ... fans of the duo may want to own both the Kino (two volumes) and Image (one volume, two discs) releases, and in addition to this Milestone Video, through Image, has released The Cook and Other Treasures, which restores a once thought lost A&K comedy short (The Cook) not found on either of the A&K sets, along with another "found" film in which Arbuckle alone appears. I believe there's a Lloyd short on the release, as well.

Hmmm. Well, without diving into an overwhelming amount of description and material, I believe that covers the best of the sets out there. You already know about the Chaplin features, of course (Image vs. MK2), but also note that a very nice Image copy of his First National shorts (save only The Kid, which I think most look on as a feature, and A Dog's Life) was made available from Image (The First National Collection), and I remain unclear whether MK2 will be revisiting these films (apart from The Kid, available from Image on their The Kid/A Dog's Life disc).

Additionally, Image has recently released their Chaplin Essanay and Mutual Collections in a single set with a bonus documentary; I have certain issues with the Mutuals, which are very early releases from what I believe are old laserdisc transfers (and non-sequential, as well), but the Essanays are first rate restorations and highly recommended. The full set is likely a good purchase, though, as the Mutuals are certainly watchable and enjoyable as they appear in their Image release, and no news on further digital restoration (David Shepard has said that the film elements have further deteriorated since the time these video masters were made) or other remastering has been forthcoming. If this is the best they're going to look for a while, it's good enough. But I hope something further can be done for them in the near future.

Apart from boxed set releases, there are ... well, let's see ... I'm going to say eleven feature titles every silent enthusiast, young or old, owes it to themselves to check out, and about fifty I'd like to name, but won't for the sake of space :

The Iron Mask (Note that DVDEmpire does not seem to list this disc at all, so I've linked the cover scan at amazon.com they do not provide a back cover scan)

Sunrise (currently available by promotional mail-in only; I see by your signature that you already know this, Oscar )

The Gaucho

The Thief of Baghdad (Note that this is the 1924 version of a film which has been remade more than once)

The Matinee Idol

Cobra

Eternal Love

Tempest

Die Nibelungen

Dr. Mabuse the Gambler

Harry Langdon ... the forgotten clown

As briefly as possible: The Iron Mask is quite simply the most gorgeous silent film I've seen on DVD. Bar none. It sparkles with glorious nitrate beauty (this is a Kevin Brownlow restoration of a nitrate print deposited with the Museum of Modern Art by Fairbanks himself just before his death -- if only all silents had been so well cared for), and the original Vitaphone discs have been rediscovered and re-introduced to the picture. For those who glory in the visual landscape of a film, I'm happy to say that Brownlow has chosen to use the full aperture image of the print, and does not cut off the portion of the image that any subsequent sound-on-film reissue prints would have obscured. The presentation here is top notch, and note that we do hear Fairbanks speak in two brief segments of this silent film (it isn't really a part talkie, because the spoken segments are not part of the feature proper, but rather "interludes"). The narration of his son, which has accompanied earlier restorations, is omitted, but a segment of how the film plays with this narration has been included in the supplements section.

A fantastic orchestral score by Carl Davis, which is so beautiful it honestly moved me to tears within the first few minutes, is the icing on the cake. This is an outstanding disc in every way ... save one. Motion blur. Yes, yes. Motion blur. Does it ever end? Worse here than in the Chaplins (notably worse), watching faces will demonstrate the problem, particularly at the beginning of the film, when Fairbanks is wooing his love at her window. As he jumps about his face smears back and forth -- not terribly, but noticeably. A few night sequences, in which bright outfits stand out, also show some blurring in rapid motion (objects lose detail, in other words -- this is distinct from the "smearing" associated with NTSC). I believe the reason for this is simple: Brownlow's restoration was done for Channel 2 Productions in the UK, and clearly a PAL master was the only master provided to Kino. It's unfortunate, because apart from the motion blur, this is my favorite disc. Of over seven hundred I've seen, this is my favorite! But, naturally, it couldn't be perfect. Oh well. I find it very watchable despite the blur, primarily because blacks and whites are so very pure, and everything glows so radiantly from its nitrate origins. The lead actress is a vision. What more could I ask?

The other titles are also excellent places to start, in particular The Gaucho, which doesn't look as good as The Iron Mask (nothing does), but which looks very good nevertheless, and remains one of my favorite films. My enthusiasm for silents is an enthusiasm for all film: I loved Pirates of the Caribbean at theatres last week. So when I say The Gaucho remains one my very favorites, I'm holding it against 110 years of motion pictures. There are thousands I haven't seen, but thousands I have, and among those I have, The Gaucho is an extraordinary achievement -- it offers everything from adventure to romance to melodrama to religious parable, and yes, a bit of horror as well. Very highly recommended in its Kino edition.

The remaining films are simply great, entertaining pictures well presented on DVD in Region 1. Respectively, from top to bottom, the editions I recommend come from Kino (The Iron Mask), Fox (Sunrise; see the separate thread for this title), Kino (The Gaucho), Columbia (The Matinee Idol; a charming Frank Capra comedy, fully, digitally restored at 2K years ago -- perhaps this and Disney's restoration of Snow White for laser in the early 90's suggest that full digital restorations, even at 2K, aren't as cutting edge in 2003 as some would suggest? Hmmmmmm? The technology has greatly improved, sure, but ... 4K here we come ), and the first silent released by a major studio to Region 1 DVD; congratulations to Columbia on that landmark), Image (Cobra -- a very entertaining, unassuming Rudolph Valentino picture, with lovely set design and fine melodrama spiced with comedy; the element used is excellent, though the compression tends to make irises a bit more harsh than they should probably appear; still, excellent and highly recommended, this is among my favorite "guilty pleasure" discs, and do not confuse it with the Sylvester Stallone film! ), Image (Eternal Love -- Camilla Horn has eyes that make my heart stop, for whatever that's worth), Image (Tempest -- ditto; I'll start a thread for this one), Kino (Die Nibelungen -- the print quality is only fair, but this restoration of Fritz Lang's full-length epic is a fascinating look at early German cinematic mythologizing/storytelling), Image (Dr. Mabuse the Gambler -- I've only watched the first disc thusfar, but I'd say the appeal here is primarily for Lang completists and fans of serial-style crime capers; however, much like Die Nibelungen, it is also an epic, a modern day -- 1920's, in other words -- myth in the making, and within those layers it proves most engaging; note that All Day Entertainment has releases one of Lang's sequels -- with an earlier sequel in what I understand to be poor dupe quality as a bonus, though I haven't yet watched it -- as well as yet another Mabuse sequel, this one helmed by a new director; the Image edition of Dr. Mabuse the Gambler also boasts a commentary by that rarest of animals, a Mabuse scholar), and Kino (Harry Langdon ... the forgotten clown; this is a wonderful set of three films on one disc, and one, The Strong Man, looks almost shockingly good for its age; all three are a delight, but the quality of the print material for The Strong Man makes it truly stand out and beg repeat viewings).

Phew. I think that covers it. In short: boxed sets, The Iron Mask, The Gaucho, silent epics from Griffith and Lang ... all great places to start. Incidentally, I see from a perusal of amazaon.co.uk that a special edition of Pabst's Pandora's Box is available overseas. We don't have that in North America yet, but it's a revered Louise Brooks film, and if truly restored in that edition, may be worth checking out. I see also that a UK Griffith boxed set is out, and contains Abraham Lincoln, which we do not yet have here.

* Those interested in this period, and even in William Hart, may enjoy Peter Bogdanovich's film The Cat's Meow, which postulates one theory behind the bizarre death of early silent producer (and frequent Hart collaborator) Thomas Ince (which if I recall from the film and/or other sources is officially recorded as "heart failure brought on by accute indigestion"). Actors also portray Charles Chaplin, Marion Davies, William Randolph Hearst, Louella Parsons, and others in the film, and most of it (not quite all) comes off surprisingly well. It's a hoot, and offers a surprisingly solid dramatic core beneath the glitz and Charleston.

** And if all of the Griffith material mentioned throughout this post isn't quite enough, Image has several Griffith releases not yet available from Kino or any other major publisher of whom I'm aware: Way Down East, America, Sally of the Sawdust, and The Battle of the Sexes. I have all of these, but it's been years since I've watched them. Battle of the Sexes, however, I recall as quite beautiful in its transfer, clearly taken from well-preserved elements.

I hope all of this was helpful, Oscar et al. And thanks for the kind words, as well. I'll now try to type something up for Tempest on its own thread, as Camilla Horn just deserves her own thread. So there.

 

[Seth Paxton]

The Movies Begin is another handsome (smaller -- "only" five discs in this one) set from Kino. I haven't yet had a chance to watch any of the discs therein, however, so I can't comment on quality. It's sitting on my shelf, though, so perhaps one day soon ... Note that two volumes from this set, with material somewhat re-arranged, I believe, were made available through Image and David Shepard prior to the release of Kino's set, which includes all of this material and more. The Image discs are called Landmarks of Early Film (I believe Derek mentions this one) and Landmarks of Early Film #2: George Melies, and are still available, I believe, but again all of their content and more is present in the (much more expensive) Movies Begin box.

Yes, I believe this is correct. I can't remember if the original Image discs had the same notes/commentary before and after the various short films. In any case the Movies Begin box set is great stuff and arranged nicely to lead a newcomer through all the basic developments in early film.


Recommendations on silents:

BTW, I know you could only name a few films due to space and time, but I would find it hard not to recommend the recent Metropolis release, definitely a silent film must have I think.

And I'm pretty sure that many here would also make a strong case for The Passion of Joan of Arc in its Criterion release.

 

[oscar_merkx]

that is quite a post there Bill and right away I spotted Fritz Lang's Die Nibulungen. on sunday July 20 I will be going to the Glasgow Film Theatre for a 4 hour screening of that silent picture accompanied by live music so I will be in for a treat.

Thanks a lot for those recommendations and I will read your post in greater detal later on

 

[Derek_McL]

Yes wonderful post Bill. You're a veritable gold mine of information about silent films on DVD. There aren't very many places on the net that provide lots of reviews of silent DVDs apart from the obvious ones like the new Chaplins.

Probably the best two are silentera.com and http://digitallyobsessed.com but even these don't always provide updated reviews on the latest releases. As for Region 2 silents I've found very few reviews. So Bill's info is very much appreciated even among dyed in the wool fans like myself who think they know their silents on DVD.

I wish I had the finances to buy all those wonderful boxsets Bill mentions ! Seriously money is an important issue for me. I did consider buying the boxset The Movies Begin but in the end just bought Landmarks of Early Film Vol 1 largely because of the price. The big boxset seemed a bit like overkill and the shorter 2 hour program included all the films I really wanted to see. These early films while fascinating are a bit fragmentary and the Landmarks set suits me fine. I suppose it depends how much of a completist you are.

Slapstick Encyclopedia was a different matter because I've always loved silent comedy and its much better value than The Movies Begin providing three times as much material (18 hours +) as compared to only 6 on The Movies Begin also at a cheaper price. I bought my Encyclopedia last year for around £50 from DC-DVD http://www.dc-dvd.co.ukwhich is less than a £1 per film.

If you are a completist and want all Keatons independent films (1920 - 1928) there is only the Kino boxset in Region 1. There are only five of the Region 2 discs I referred to but as I said for around £5 a time (at Fopp and also I think this website has them cheap as well http://www.blackstar.co.uk they are a great intro to Keaton and you won't be disappointed by the picture quality. The titles available from Stonevision (Region 2 ports over of Shepard's restorations) are

Our Hospitality/Sherlock Junior
Seven Chances/Balloonatic/Neighbours
The Saphead/One Week/The High Sign
Steamboat Bill Junior/Convict 13/Daydreams
Battling Butler/The Frozen North/The Haunted House

I've got all of these plus Eureka Videos' version of The General. They also do College and Steamboat Bill Junior. Eureka's DVDs are more expensive but of these The General is really the only essential Keaton (Steamboat you can get with Stonevision). No sign of The Three Ages, The Navigator and Go West in region 2 so to get them you'll need the Region 1 boxset. Very expensive at £150 plus post and packing on one of my websites but you pays your money and makes your choice.

I'll be ordering The Harry Langdon Set soon based on what I've seen of the little man on Slapstick Encyclopedia. I saw The Strong Man many years ago so its great to hear the print on the DVD is so good. I might sound like a broken record but does anyone have anything to say about the new Von Stroheim discs particularly Foolish Wives which I also think I'll add to my collection shortly.

Bill you've got me really interested in the Griffith Masterworks set. I've got The Birth of A Nation, Intolerance, Broken Blossoms and Way Down East but they sound like the inferior Image versions ported over to Region 2. The print of Intolerance sounds great, The Birth has those extra Civil war shorts and the 1930 intro to the film with Griffith and Walter Huston while Broken Blossoms also has a few extras I don't have including an introduction by Lillian Gish. I was going to get Orphans of the Storm which would cost online about £20 but the whole lot are only £70 which is probably worth it for upgrades in picture quality of Intolerance, Broken Blossoms along with the extras, the Civil War shorts and the Biograph shorts thrown in for good measure. Many thanks for pointing me in that direction.

By the way has Bill or anyone seen Cabiria or any of the other very early Italian epics which were supposedly the inspiration for Intolerance ? Another silent DVD which intrigued me was World War I Films of the Silent Era. Does anyone have that one ? Is it any good ?

 

[CameronS]

Great info here guys. Someone should definitely archive this thread.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

One film in Kino's set, whose title I don't have on hand at the moment -- it follows A&K out West, and I want to say it's called Out West, but that may not be right -- presents the entire short from a very poor 16mm source; Image's set only presents an excerpt from the film, but their excerpt is taken from 35mm.

The problem short is MOONSHINE, with Arbuckle and Keaton as revenuers. The 35mm material really looks very nice, and the excerpts that survive give a passable gist of the storyline of the film. The 16mm version on the Kino set is barely watchable.

 

[R. Kay]

Interesting thread, however ...

Why can't we just watch the new Chaplin films and enjoy them without putting every inch of the film under a microscope!

I'm getting a headache with all this analysis.

How about analyzing the quality of the content of the films themselves??

 

[Damin J Toell]

How about analyzing the quality of the content of the films themselves??

This is the Software forum, where the analysis of the software aspects of home video releases is on-topic. This is generally not the proper forum for pure film analysis. If you would like to analyze the films themselves, you should feel free to go to the Movies forum and start a thread that does just that.

DJ

 

[Bill Burns]

Mark wrote:

The problem short is MOONSHINE, with Arbuckle and Keaton as revenuers.

Ah, many thanks. Just so -- you're exactly right, Mark. That's the correct title.

Derek: I've seen Cabiria and The Last Days of Pompeii in their Kino editions, which I found very pleasing (I recall enjoying Last Days a bit more as a film, which I believe is contrary to the usual critical opinion), and I have Shepard's Civil War Films of the Silent Era, his predecessor volume to World War I Film of the Silent Era, which I recall as enjoyable, though I recollect the print quality as "good to fair" on the short films found on the disc. But it's been ... oh, a couple of years, anyway, since I last watched any of these, and I don't trust my visual memory well enough to say that I'm sure about the above. I've been meaning to revisit these, so if I can work in viewings in the next couple of weeks, I'll post again with new thoughts. So far as my memory serves, though, I'd say all are good, but the weakest of the bunch (in both film quality and overall* print quality) is Civil War Films of the Silent Era. I'd love to know how World War I Films compares to the earlier release.

* I believe Last Days has sections that feature severe emulsion decomposition, much more so than anything found on Civil War Films of the Silent Era, but these sections are brief. Most of the film, again strictly by memory, is visually more appealing than the Civil War collection, but then again it's a feature with grand production values, whereas the Civil War films are shorts -- it may not be terribly fair to compare them, either for overall visual appeal or the state of their preservation. Overall, I'd recommend all three volumes, in particular the two Italian epics.

 

[Derek_McL]

Post below.

 

[Derek_McL]

Cabiria was the one I was really interested in but I'll hold off from it for the moment. It's likely to be a month or two before I get round to purchasing it as I said in my previous message its Foolish Wives and Harry Langdon next with maybe a William S. Hart then possibly the Kino Griffith boxset though I'm wavering a bit on that.

There are some interesting comparisons of the various editions of The Birth of a Nation and Intolerance at http://www.dvdbeaver.com. They suggest that the best version of The Birth is (hooray !) the PAL version I own. Intolerance to me seems a bit less clear cut although the Kino is defintely the sharpest of the three I don't know if the difference is marked enough to merit a re-purchase. They do make a good point about the Eureka version's boosting of the contrast but I don't know if I'm too keen on the colour toning on the other two editions.

Bill you mentioned an audio flaw on that Kino disc too but what about the score generally is the music appropriate ?
Is it an organ score or one with a full orchestra ? I also remember you writing that the different versions offer different cuts. I also notice the Kino is twenty minutes longer is this due to more footage or does the film just move at a slower rate ? I might seem to be nit-picking a bit here and because of the importance of this movie I'll probably buy it again anyway but I suppose I've just been spoiled in my youth by the quality of Kevin Brownlow's restoration which had a driving Carl Davis score. Pity that's not available on DVD. It can be tricky too judging the print quality of silent films (particularly the pre 1920 ones)when we're lucky that some exist in any form.

As I said epic fans should really check out the silents most of which are more entertaining and less po-faced than 50s'movies like The Ten Commandments and Ben Hur. Another silent epic which is rarely mentioned is DeMille's Joan the Woman. Have you seen this Bill ? I watched it again on Sunday night and enjoyed it. Possibly a bit preachy but no worse than Intolerance. There is also an unbelievable romance between an English soldier played by Wallace Reid and Joan (Geraldine Farrar) but apart from that this is another great silent epic. There is a superb battle sequence featuring more swordsmen than I've seen in any other movie, the scenes of Joan's trial are also excellent but the real tour-de-force is the finale when she is burned at the stake and the black and white print bursts into colour. Its quite startling to see the red flames but its hard to describe you're better seeing it for yourself. The print's a bit shaky to start with and the picture actually rolls at one point but once it settles down the image is excellent for a film made in 1916. Definitely one worth checking out for epic movie fans.

I was interested in World War I Movies of the Silent Era because its slightly different from your usual silent DVD. As well as a fiction film : a 1917 feature called The Secret Game there's a couple of actualities featuring real war footage and also what looks like a very interesting documentary The Motion Picture Boys in the Great War which brings me to another topic but sadly an all to brief one : documentaries about silent film on DVD. I see that a few new releases the Foolish Wives and new Chaney set will include docs which is great : a bit of context to what you are watching improves the experience.

No sign though of the docs that really introduced me to silent film and many other I'm sure : Kevin Brownlow and David Gill's superb Hollywood series. There looks to be too many rights issues with that series perhaps Warner will include excerpts on their silent DVDs. I'm a bit more surprised by the no shows of Unknown Chaplin, Buster Keaton- A Hard Act to Follow and Harold Lloyd - The Third Genius (a bit less surprised here as the Lloyd Trust seem to hold the rights to this one).

Cinema Europe - The Other Hollywood is available and is a solid introduction to the European silent cinema. Although some of the German and Russian films are good I prefer American silents. There is also I believe a disc about Fritz Lang concentrating on his German silent films but I'm more interested in the DVD biography of Mary Pickford - A Life On Film. Of her films I've only got Sparrows which is OK but isn't going to displace a Griffith or Chaplin still Mary was the first big movie star and I'm glad to have an example of her work and I might well add the DVD documentary to my collection one of these days. Sorry about
the duplicate posts.

 

[Bill Burns]

Is the Intolerance score orchestral or solo instrumental? You know ... I'm not sure. I remember enjoying it quite a bit (Joseph Turrin composed it, and a couple of pages of detail in one of the disc supplements explains just how he arrived at his compositional choices), and I also recall feeling that it enveloped the viewing experience nicely ... I want to say it at least involves multiple instruments, but I don't believe it's an orchestra (both my memory and the back of the case, which says Turrin also performs the music, leads me to believe it involves several instruments but no orchestra), but I'm just not sure. When I have a chance I'll pop the disc in and listen to it for a bit, but from memory ... I just can't say. It certainly doesn't have what I often find to be the unpleasant monotony of a single instrument accompanying an epic, so if it is an organ score, it's excellent as such. But my inclination is to say several instruments make an appearance. I don't think the surround experience I described would have been as enjoyable (or appropriate) otherwise. I'm sorry that my memory fails me on this, but as soon as I can watch a bit of the film again I'll update with a definite answer for you. As to appropriateness, though, I found the music very pleasing in the company of the images and their story. I've known a few musical elitists over the years who'd probably take issue with Beethoven himself if he tried to counter Oscar Levant, but this casual music fan was more than satisfied. That I recall very clearly. I will say, though, that no silent accompaniment I've ever heard even approaches the majesty of Carl Davis' orchestral score for The Iron Mask, which is truly a thing of beauty.

I haven't personally seen the Eureka version of Intolerance, but in an A/B with the Image, the Kino is markedly better detailed (I'm always reluctant to say "sharper," even though that's certainly accurate, because sharpness can be artificial at the expense of real detail; the clarity of this transfer is deeply filmlike), and the framing is noticeably more open (which feels correct to the general composition of shots). I'm not certain exactly what I'm recollecting about running speeds, though -- I can visualize the Image transfer as too slow, unpleasantly so, and the Kino moving at a more natural and pleasant speed ... but it's possible that I misremember and the Kino is in fact the slower, the Image the faster, and the Image is thus too fast. My memory just isn't clear. I specifically recall noting that the Kino felt more natural in its speed (I compared the first baby rocking interlude at the time), but whether the Image is slower or faster, I'm going to have to say I'm uncertain all these months later. I may have been wrong in this in my earlier post. The key, though, is that Kino got it right, whatever the fault of the Image. Kino's edition moves very pleasantly, and I did detect a speed differential between the two editions, which may well account for some of the time difference. Additionally, the two segments I mentioned -- the modern and Babylonian segments -- are edited uniquely (I can confirm the former, and I'm assuming the latter). I believe it was in the text supplement to the Image edition that I read about this, but the film was apparently issued in several different cuts and versions over the years, including the release of its modern section as a film unto itself. The Image edition purported to present one of these presentations with a select few additional sequences re-introduced from another cut, though I've forgotten their justification in doing so. The Kino edition removes at least the brief segment explaining the happy
fate of the baby in the Image cut (though note that the baby dies in the version of the modern story that was released as a self-contained feature
), which I can confirm from having viewed it, but I'd dare say the Babylonian sequence, with its war sequences, has also been rearranged and recut. Ultimately, the Kino edition likely introduces material I seem to recall mention of Griffith trimming significantly from this passage in one of the alternate cuts.

The gist of it all is that there is no one correct cut of Intolerance. The various versions represent various decisions by the director at various times and places of release. A hodge podge of multiple cuts may be difficult to justify, and I honestly don't know if Kino has again done this, albeit differently from the Image hodge podge, or if they've presented an actual release cut. The dramatic improvement in picture clarity, superior framing, pleasing music (once you force it into faux surround, that is) and keepcase packaging all side me with it leaps and bounds over Image's for anyone seeking to own just one edition. I haven't seen Eureka's, though, as I mentioned, so I can't say if it's worth upgrading from that starting point. I'll try to give you a definite answer on the music in the next few days. In the meantime, if anyone else has seen it and can say, by all means do so. Again, my best guess, from memory, is multiple instruments but not an orchestra. If you'd like to give the back of the box a read, here's a link to a cover scan:

Intolerance (Kino)

I haven't seen Joan the Woman, but as a DeMille fan, and also as someone fascinated by her history (I realize the film is a dramatization and not an historical record ), it's certainly on my list. Thanks for the recommendation -- I'm eager to see it.

Looks like Cabiria, The Last Days of Pompeii, and Intolerance are on my "revisit" list, and here 365 Nights in Hollywood should be arriving in the next couple of days, too. I'd better get busy! In the meantime, let me put in one more plug for Tempest, which I'm calling a 1928 picture because it was released July 21st, 1928, according to very fine print on the box (it was copyrighted in 1927, so the year listed on the box's "vital stats line" in bold is '27). It's really quite a good picture.

 

[Gary Tooze]

A comparison of the Image - Region 0 - NTSC "Intolerance" vs. Kino (Masterworks) - Region 0 - NTSC vs. Eureka - Region 0 - PAL can be found HERE
and ditto for
Image - Region 0 - NTSC "Birth of a Nation" vs. Kino (Masterworks) - Region 0 - NTSC vs. Eureka - Region 0 - PAL can be found HERE

Cheers,