The Bits impressed w/Blu titles (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

The difference between DVD Empire's Listing and mine is the inclusion of concert type HD DVDs in their listing of 143 HD DVDs so far released and the same applies to Blu-ray titles.




Crawdaddy

 

[Tim Glover]

You got that right Carlo. A recent trip to Best Buy saw just a nice display of films for both formats but the selection was indeed rather sparce. All the ones they had....I already had.

....Hopefully, sooner than later, stores like Wal Mart and Target will really start getting these. I know Target carries about 10 films each. lol. My local Wal mart carries none.

 

[Bill Hunt]

I'm hoping to speak with a senior studio rep later this week. I'll let you know what comes of it. I agree that you can't really read into Universal's lack of announcements too much. It's was a very odd move on their part, but they do have plenty of new titles on the way to the format.

I'll get back to you guys later this week.

 

[BrettB]

Bill, when are BD reviews going to show up at the Bits?

 

[Bill Hunt]

As soon as I have the chance to do them! I'm the only one with a BD player right now, and I'm buried in news/format war coverage and chasing down rumors, etc. However, we're working to get Barrie a BD player soon as well.

 

[BrettB]

Sounds like you need to take a break and watch some movies. Looking forward to it.

 

[Bob Black]

Bill,

It wasn't too long ago that Blu-Ray had botched just about everything -- poor transfers, numerous delays with hardware & software, no BD50 discs produced (and rumors that they wouldn't work on existing hardware - remember that one?), extremely high prices, and little content. You didn't seem to think the Fox, Disney, LG, MGM, Sony exclusives were that big a factor then, as your frustration with BD came through clearly on The Bits!

So Blu-Ray finally got its head out of its collective ass and is now producing discs which equal HD-DVD quality. Big deal! Where would the consumer be if HD-DVD never existed, and we were all stuck with Sony's multiple blunders -- over-spending on hardware and wasting money on poor transfers that studio heads didn't give a damn about! HD-DVD set the standard, and continues to improve its product and raise the bar with releases like King Kong and Hulk, and fantastic looking classics like The Sting, Casablanca, The Thing and The Deer Hunter.

As a consumer, there's something to rewarding the company that manufactures a superior product and cares about the customer. Many have chosen HD-DVD and continue supporting it exclusively because this format didn't take 6 months to be worthwhile. We aren't still waiting for interactive features like BDj since we've had such features for months now. Warner and Universal were releasing exceptional products since their launch -- we didn't have to wait months for worthwhile software to appear.

The titles announced at CES for BD are right through the summer -- a desperate act of self-importance to try to make up for the fact that BD players are showing abysmal numbers despite their exclusive studio support! Yet Mike Dunn, Sony and the BDA spread around pathetic leaflets claiming "Blu-Ray Wins!", showed charts with preposterous projected sales figures, and dropped a laundry-list of titles -- most direct from the Wal-Mart dump-bins -- in an attempt to disguise the fact that the success of their format is completely predicated on a videogame! Why, exactly, are we hearing street dates for BD titles before we've even heard about their comparable DVD release?

I'm not crazy about the recent slow-down of titles, but I already have over 100 HD-DVD's and have amassed this amount quicker than I did with DVD in 1997. As far as exclusives go, Universal and Weinstein have an unbelievable slate of films in 2007 which are all possible exclusives for HD-DVD as well -- Grindhouse, Children Of Men, Bourne Supremacy, Hot Fuzz, American Gangster, Sin City 2, Kingdom, Smoking Aces, Hannibal Rising, Evan Almighty, Boone's Lick, Rob Zombie's Halloween remake, Damage Control and many more! Does anyone honestly believe there will be no HD-DVD announcements for the first half of the year just because Blu-Ray decided to announce every title through the summer already?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Sigh. We weren't even *supposed* to get interactive Java yet. Player support for that will be coming late spring/early summer as has been known all along. Every player released so far to my knowledge will be firmware upgradable when the time comes.

And trust me, I do share your disdain for Sony's abysmal launch of BD which was months premature. They wanted to close the gap with HD DVD's launch on paper so they launched a format that still needed to gestate a few months longer. Disney, Fox, and Paramount *waited* for the proper authoring and 50GB replication to street titles, which really amounts to the "real" launch of BD in the eyes of the industry.

I agree that Toshiba has been very customer-focused in contrast to Sony's typical arrogant style. But really, do I care who invents my format? What I care about is that the next-generation format have the most room to grow as studios learn how to take advantage of all it has to offer. I don't understand why more HT enthusiasts don't have a similar longer-range view of what will possibly be the last disc-based HD format we'll ever get.

 

[ppltd]

David, while I agree with almost everything in your post, I have to disagree with this statement. Sony owns well over 95% of the BD hardware business, and were the only studio releasing for the first few months. It is hard to seperate the two. Even Toshiba doesn't have that level of impact in the HD-DVD hardware business, where MS (even though the drive unit is currently supplied by Toshiba) owns at least half of the HD-DVD hardware business.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

If by "hardware business" you mean disc manufacture then Yes (Sony has very little to do with playback hardware, and the Sony BD player is actually mostly out-sourced from Pioneer!). That's why I said that a year from now the landscape will change dramatically. At launch Sony was compressing and authoring all BD discs, and replicating... for all participating studios.

At this time, studios are now able to do their own compression (WB does their own VC1) though Sony is still manufacturing the discs. It's expected that other manufacturing facilities will come on-line for single and dual-layer discs over the course of the year.

BD discs are manufactured using an entirely new process so naturally Sony had the replication facilities at launch. That's not surprising... not too many factories were making DVDs back in 1997 either. ;-)

But that will change. And it's changing quickly.

 

[Bob Black]

I concur. I've already begun upgrading my collection to HD with 110 in my library already. I'm in it for the long haul, and Blu-Ray is not on my radar. I just hope that all the studios are releasing in my format at some point in time, as I have no intention of supporting 2 formats.

 

[Edwin-S]

Well for someone who isn't bashing Blu-ray you are doing a pretty good job. I have no particular love for SONY but I, for one, am glad that they and their evil cohorts decided to come out with a competing format....even if it loses in the end. If it hadn't been for the sinister SONY empire we, as consumers, would have been stuck with a shitty, highly compressed, red laser based HD format, because that is all that HD DVD was originally slated to be. 1080p and lossless soundtracks would have been nothing but a gleam in some home theatre enthusiast's eye without SONY and its allies attempt to bust Toshibas monopolistic control over High Definition disc standards.

Damn you SONY.....Damn you to hell! How dare you think that you have the right to innovate and bring a product to market that improves upon that being offered by the Toshiba Trade Feder.....er....DVD forum. SONY, you shouldn't have done it.....as what real HT enthusiasts wanted was a nice red laser based HD format controlled by a cartel. Now, I just want to say that the preceding paragraph is meant to be tongue-in-cheek and does not mean that I actually think anyone here actually wanted a red laser based HD format; however, I believe that is exactly what we would have gotten if SONY and crew hadn't put HD technology on another level by deciding to market a Blue laser based format.

The fact of the matter is that both of these formats have fed off each other. The Blu-ray technology forced the backers of HD DVD into improving their technology in order to remain competitive. The high quality releases on HD DVD made the early releases on BD look embarassingly bad. The quality of the HD DVD releases is forcing BD releasing studios to improve the quality of their products. In general, the effects of this format war have been positive. The bad effect is the uncertainty caused by the existence of two formats; however, that is the nature of the beast. The only solution is to not early adopt if a person hates the thought of seeing their format of choice turn into a paper weight. I've got a couple of paperweights lying around, and I'm sure lots of other people on this forum do too. I bought an HD DVD player because I didn't want to wait to see some high quality HD content. If the format dies then I'm just going to have to eat it like I did with some of the other devices that I bought. That is the nature of this game. If more movies that I want to see start appearing on BD (and there are a few all ready) then I'm going to figure out a way to acquire a BD player. I just might have to eat a lot of macaroni for awhile. Frankly, with Blu, I'm waiting to see if the prices come down a bit. IMO, pricing is always where SONY has shot itself in the ass. The management at that company somehow thinks that their name alone makes their products worth charging more for. They have the bizarre idea that consumers are so enamored of the SONY name that they will actually pay more to own a (gasp) SONY. SONY always seems to have to learn the hard way about competitive pricing. Sometimes, I think they never learn. They helped do in their own Betamax format with their premium pricing and the same could happen to Blu-ray.

There is one thing that I found out from watching HD DVD discs. I found out that my Toshiba 57HX81, which I thought was pretty good, actually kind of sucks for watching HD content. I'm sure the TV is badly rolling off high frequency detail. People seem to post pretty positive reviews regarding the clarity of the PQ on these HD releases. In my case, the content definitely looks better than SD DVD, but it still looks soft in a lot of areas. I'm kind of stuck with the TV; however, the more HD I watch....the more disatisfied I get with the set's performance. Damn....I knew I should have bought the Pioneer Elite, but I decided to go with the bigger screen!

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Edwin,

great take on the benefits of the format war thus far... and you're right about it cutting both ways. We get so stuck on critizing Sony for those early crappy BD titles that we forget that HD DVD was originally just going to be a 720P HD media using a red laser!!! I actually got flamed big-time at AVS a few years back for criticizing Joe Kane who was trumpeting the then-red-laser-720p concept as "the future" by saying he "lacked vision" by settling for anything less than 1080p. Just 3 short years ago all the industry experts just KNEW that affordable 1080p displays would be an impossible dream for at least 10 years... despite my claims to the contrary...



It was *only* because Sony pushed and developed their Blu-laser BD format that Toshiba reworked things and came up with a Blu-laser spec to stay competitive. Then of course, it was BD's turn to adopt the advanced compression codecs that had been devised to make HD DVD work with such a limited bit-bucket while the Sony team was wallowing in their bit-hungry MPEG2 world.

Back/forth/back/forth. The competition has cause BOTH camps to improve.

 

[Cees Alons]

I'm glad we finally get to agree now that some substantial good results for the consumer came out of this competitive "war" of medium manufacturers and hardware makers. And if you add "price pressures" to the list, it's almost complete.

That's not to say that there aren't any negative aspects to it as well. We still need to go on bashing the format-exclusive studios for being so extremely consumer unfriendly. I say it clearly: it has to stop. It muddies the waters, disallowing us as consumers a proper comparison and a free choice of the formats on the market.


Cees

 

[Paul_Scott]

Are you absolutely positive that was the reason?
I've been hearing fairly consistently, that the Bd50s are being heavily subsidized (and will be for some time) whereas I don't think this is the case with the bd25s.
How many titles out there, that have been released on a bd50, have actually needed all that capacity for files directly related to the movie and its features?
I thought one studio at least was tossing on mulitple 1080p trailers for unreleated titles.
If these titles are all coming in around 35-40gbs with efficent codecs (not mpeg2) then I'm off base- but I do remember a comment made off-hand in the display forums that at least one (studio? authoring house?) producing on both formats was getting QC results in the range of 9 to 1 for HD DVD (9 good/1 bad) and- this is a direct quote- the opposite of that for Bd.


But hey, if you were a studio and Sony was offering you a deal where Bd50s were at par with 25s or just a fraction of a percent higher, wouldn't you take advantage of it as long as it lasted?

 

[Carlo_M]

Not all "lack of studio support" is bad - let's remember that lack of studio support kept the hated Divx (spit!) from ever becoming popular

And no, I'm not talking about the encoding scheme that's popular now for streaming/downloading videos.

 

[ppltd]

Say what????? The 95% plus of the BD players I was speaking of are PS3's, which Sony does not out source from anyone. And, if the numbers keep growing, it will be closer to 99% Plus in the next 5 or 6 months, with standalone players made by other manufacturers barely making a blip on the screen. Without the PS3, there would be virtually no BD player presence.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

ppltd,

wasn't thinking of the ps3, but seems funny to criticize Sony for dominating the BD hardware market when there are several BD players released by major companies given that thus far only Toshiba has jumped into the HD DVD hardware bandwagon (RCA is a rebadge).





Hey Cees,

while we both agree that the format was has had some benefits in the past, we seem to disagree about the advantages moving foward. At this stage the only possible benefit I can see would be price. The problem is that companies like Toshiba have already been tempted to underprice their hardware to compete, which has resulted in them selling several models at a loss. That can work in the short-term but it can't be sustained. It's doubtful that Toshiba will be able to keep up the reduced prices long enough for manufacturing savings to meet them there... But the real problem is that slashing prices too quickly this way also undercuts the primary reason that other companies would have to get into the HD player market... to make money. If anyone has wondered why so far only Toshiba has stepped up to HD DVD palyer plate, this is why (not enough room for profit margin for any other maufacturer given Toshiba's willingeness to undercut their profits to try to cut prices to gain market share).

Prices will inevitably come down as they always do... especially on the hardware side. And the same studios that overcharge for DVD will overcharge for BD and they would ALSO overcharge for HD DVD! Nothing would change there anyway... studios have their own mindset about these things and each one behaves according to their own internal plolicy/strategy. We all wish that all the studios took a "Warner Brothers" approach with software pricing. We wish that with DVD and we'll wish it with HD DVD and BD too. Nothing new :frowning: and since each studio has exclusive rights to its own content, "competion" between movie titles doesn't work the same way that competition for hardware sales works.

At *this* time, the best thing for consumers, IMO, is a quick end to the war. That would only be hampered if every studio released on both formats... the war would drag out years longer. I agree with Disney and Fox in their strategy to try to snuff the war sooner by sticking to one camp. Since BD can do everything HD DVD can do and more, it's a choice that doesn't bother me personally.

 

[Cees Alons]

It's some of the *more* I don't want, David!

Apart from the pricing and some quality aspects, the "war" can still help us at the moment to get rid of (1) region coding and (2) some of the more sinister aspects of BD+.

I certainly wouldn't want the BD-group to have a monopoly now in the market!!


Cees

 

[Shawn Perron]

You can probably forget about this, due to the fact that many HD-DVD movies have recently been unencrypted and released online. Studios will probably be demanding that the security be increased if nothing else. I think the lack of HD-DVD movie release dates for the next 2 months has to do with the current unsecure software player that is allowing movies to be compromised more then any other reason. I'm, not sure how long it will take AACS to implement whatever security measures are necessary to secure future releases again, but I can't imagine the HD-DVD studios are racing to get as many unsecure titles out as possible. The HD-DVD studios cannot be happy that thier desire to support the format right now directly conflicts with thier desire not to release unsecured movies.

Anyone that hates the thought of BD+ should be hoping that the current BD titles aren't similarly compromised. Should that happen, the BD group will probably rush to implement BD+ as soon as possible. Though I have a feeling that the HD-DVD situation will hurry the implementation of BD+ anyway.