The best speaker for home theater for $0 - 10000? (1 Viewer)

[Bob_A]

Everyone please keep in mind that I'm not bashing or criticizing nOrh...in talking about "stomp" I'm referring to impact and power handling in the DT bipolar design of the 2000TL's. I wouldn't doubt that the nOrh's + external subs would make a nice HT setup.

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

The best speakers for Home Theater? The ones you build yourself, of course: http://www.geocities.com/hankbond1/My_page.html
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"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"
[Edited last by Hank Frankenberg on August 31, 2001 at 06:25 AM]

 

[KeithR]

PJ, I agree with you, and sorry for getting this stirred up.
Bob, all you say about the DTs is that they can handle power and play loud and are great for HT (no music auditions, what?). Interesting enough, most (with the exception of the 9s) say the nOrhs can take a beating. I had a forum member at my home, and we cranked it up and the 4.0s didn't skip a beat (with an Odyssey Stratos). In fact, read the reviews over at AR< and you always read, "these things play so loud!" Despite the low sensitivity (87db, compared to DefTech 90+), the impedance curve is very linear, so it doesn't cause a bad load on a receiver---of course all things benefit with power amps I run my HT off a Sony ES receiver, and the nOrhs have had no problems.
I will agree with you Bob that 5 2000TLs would be cool. And I would love to hear it! However, I think 5 monitors + dual SVS Ultra subs would be more than adequate in a THX system that crosses everything at 80 hz to begin with--and costs you 1/2 as much. I also prefer monitors to floorstanders for HT, just like many M&K guys (Robert-love those 150s!). That is just my PREFERENCE!
And I want to clarify, the only reason in the other thread I said "Stomp" was that we were comparing 2 scenarios with no subs, to a nOrh/SVS combo. SVS stomps everything basswise---which most on this forum would agree with!

 

[BryanZ]

Bass impact can be wonderful. Then again, there also is a point where it can be too much. My opinion is that the Def Techs, while good, would not produce nearly the quality of HT bass that the SVs will. The bass the DTs produce would end up sounding muddy and overbearing in that particular setting, giving you bass humps at various frequencies, but particularly above 30Hz. Who would want that? Not me. For that reason, I'd say the nOrh/SVS setup would be better than the Def Tech/SVS setup. Alot of it does have do with personal opinion. And that, my dear Watson, is only my opinion.

 

[John Gates]

Interestingly enough, I strayed back to the top of this thread, and I'd like to offer some thoughts on the original question:

Just curious to see what the consensus on the best speakers for HT use. Lots of people have Paradigm, but they certainly aren't the best. What about Martin Logan? What make a speaker ridiculously good sound producer?

There are several things that come to mind that set some speakers apart from the vast crowd.
1) Cabinet design and materials
2) High-quality drivers
3) Crossover design
All of these things, IMO, combine to produce the overall "effect" of a speaker. Impact, clarity, imaging, soundstage, etc, all spring from these. If you have great drivers and a cruddy cabinet, the speaker won't sound as good.
There are some very interesting alternative designs out there that do produce a noticeable improvement in sound quality. For those interested, I would point you to nOrh and AV-Reality for a pair of examples. Granted, these are not "traditional" speaker designs, but by thinking and designing "out of the box" (pun intended for those who know what these look like), several speaker manufacturers have created "ridiculously good sound producers."
Are there other manufacturers who combine the three items above exceptionally well? Getting beyond pure performance, how about performance/price?
Very interesting thread, IMO.
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[Bob_A]

Bass impact can be wonderful. Then again, there also is a point where it can be too much. My opinion is that the Def Techs, while good, would not produce nearly the quality of HT bass that the SVs will. The bass the DTs produce would end up sounding muddy and overbearing in that particular setting, giving you bass humps at various frequencies, but particularly above 30Hz. Who would want that? Not me. For that reason, I'd say the nOrh/SVS setup would be better than the Def Tech/SVS setup. Alot of it does have do with personal opinion. And that, my dear Watson, is only my opinion.

Again I'm not talking about sheer bass. The DT setup would have SVSubs just as the nOrh setup would have them. If you wire them "properly" via line level inputs you will not get muddy bass.
What is "better" is a questionable thing...I just think the DT's have an advantage due to design. Bipolar really brings you into the movie, but you will need a fairly large room to take full advantage of these 2000TL's. I believe that Dolby says the ultimate goal is full range speakers all around, with LFE sent to external subs...imagine the overall dynamics and involvement in such a setup.

 

[Brian Corr]

This is my opnion but I don't see how the norh's with external subs could sound as good as the def techs with external subs. This is assuming a primarily HT function, that adequate power is used, the room size is adequate and the speakers are crossed over at their ideal points.
The quality of the sound is subjective so throw that out.
(let's assume they both put out great sound, as I am sure they do)
Heck, forget that DT's and Norh's have even been mentioned.
Forget bipoles vs direct.
I think having full range speakers and external subs will provide more impact, oomph, WHAM BAM SLAM than a sat sub system will.
For me, the sub sat system was the way to go because of size, room, price, etc.
Ok, the more I think about it, there is no answer to this. So many other variables, like power, room, crossovers, etc come into play.
Can't we just argue about whether or not cables make a difference! I know the answer to that one!

 

[BryanZ]

Again I'm not talking about sheer bass. The DT setup would have SVSubs just as the nOrh setup would have them. If you wire them "properly" via line level inputs you will not get muddy bass.
What is "better" is a questionable thing...I just think the DT's have an advantage due to design. Bipolar really brings you into the movie, but you will need a fairly large room to take full advantage of these 2000TL's. I believe that Dolby says the ultimate goal is full range speakers all around, with LFE sent to external subs...imagine the overall dynamics and involvement in such a setup.

Sheer bass can become an issue that will make for a terrible HT experience. The trick would be finding the correct amount of bass to add using the subs. I'd * guess * you would have to set the crossover to the SVs at 35Hz or lower to not be bombarded. Half the fun is finding the balance between just enough to make you feel it but not enough to drive you crazy.
As for bipolar, let's just say I'm not a real big fan of it. That is mainly due to personal preference. It is also doubtful we will ever reach the point of having full range speakers all around. Not unless the price of said speakers comes wayyyyyy down. Only within the past few years has HT reached the point of being affordable to most anyone who wanted one.
I'd love to hear a full DT 2000TL/SVS setup. It would make for a very interesting comparison to a nOrh/SVS setup. Even then the winner would be determined only by opinions.
Now about cables not making a difference ...

 

[Alan Markow]

Some 20 months ago I went to CES and heard speakers that were the best I had personally ever experienced -- the Meridian 8000 series. I remain very impressed with them, and I do not own them (or any other Meridian gear), so I still claim some personal objectivity on these speakers. They are unique in that each speaker contains its own amplifier. I'm not a technical expert and go only by my ears, but these should be considered among the high end speakers on any list.
Alan

 

[chris c]

It all comes down to personal preference. If you are a bass freak who loves loud, dynamic sound, the DT's will do the trick. If you are interested in reproducing the signal with tonal purity and smoothness, the Nohrs are your best bet. In each case, you give up something. I have heard both and like them for different reasons. I'll take the Dynaudio's myself, though.

 

[Todd Hochard]

I'd probably go with B&W Nautilus all around.
Smoothness wins out over impact with me.
Todd

 

[Bob_A]

If you are a bass freak who loves loud, dynamic sound, the DT's will do the trick. If you are interested in reproducing the signal with tonal purity and smoothness, the Nohrs are your best bet.

Believe me the DT's are not at all about sheer loudness and bass (that's what the SV's should be used for)...if you hear a good setup you should find that they are very smooth and very musical, with fairly neutral tonality (IMHO) when partnered with well "matching" equipment. The bass is tight and tuneful, the mids are very clear and full, and the highs are crisp and clear w/o being bright. You really have to live with the 2000TL's (and other DT bipolars) to truly appreciate them with music IMHO. I have heard Dynaudio, Martin Logan, Mirage OM5, etc etc etc and have yet to hear a better set of speakers for music (IMO)...but that doesn't mean I would be so quick to judge them "inferior" or in a different league

 

[chris c]

"I have heard Dynaudio, Martin Logan..., etc etc etc and have yet to hear a better set of speakers for music (IMO)."
Glad you like them!

 

[Ryan Peddle]

I am a big fan of paradigm, that's why my setup is completely paradigm. I have also listened to B&W, PSB, Deftech, Monitor Audio. Within all these, I chose Paradigm. I liked the crispness (brightness to some). They were very detailed.
But I must say that after I heard Miles' Martin Logan setup I was astonished. A giant wall of sound is all that comes to mind. With a Servo 15 rounding out the bottom.
The first thing I noticed with these speakers was they're level of transparency. You can walk right up tot he speaker and still not pin point where the exact sound is coming from.
Watching the Haunting DTS and SPR DTS sounded much different that listening to it in my smaller setup, or at a dealers showroom.
So until someone presents me with a better sounding speaker, I am going with Martin Logan.
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Oops, I dropped my eardrums.
Could you pick them up for me?

 

[John Morris]

I have heard Dynaudio, Martin Logan, Mirage OM5, etc etc etc and have yet to hear a better set of speakers for music (IMO)...

Wow... that is a testimony and a half. Thank goodness for the IMO part though. Of course, we all have different tastes in speakers. Heck, there are even some folks who swear by Bose.
As for me, I've been demoing speakers most of this week, and as much as I love my aging Mirage M-3si bubbas, I've come to appreciate a few other speakers for what they bring to the stage, so to speak.
I'd recommend that other than the speakers already mentioned, you also demo Vienna Beethovens, Wilson Watt/Puppys, NHT 3.3, and Aerial Acoustic's models 10T and 7B.
It is tough trying to hear differences when there is time between tests and the equipment used to source and drive the speakers is different, but at least you can, and should use the same CD test disks for each speaker set.
Good Luck and Have fun shopping!!!
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Take Care,
merc
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DFAST, 5C, DVI, HDCP, SafeAudio, Macrovision and Lewinski!!!

 

[Bill Lucas]

Alan,
You are correct about the Meridian 8000s. At $45,000 a pair I think they may be a wee bit out of the given range in this thread.
What I find amusing about threads like this is that they ALWAYS become a justification for what someone bought. I'm fortunate enough to get to listen to high-end equipment from various manufacturers on a daily basis and to install the equipment in customers homes and use proper setup, calibration and placement of speakers in relation to the acoustical space that they occupy. What I have learned is that there are many tastes at many price points and speaker selection is the SINGLE most subjective purchase. One man's cup of tea is another man's prune juice. One poster mentioned the Revel Performa series. While I personally agree that the F30 is one of the best $3500 a pair floorstanders that can be bought you would not catch me dead with the Performa center channel. It's phasy and if so mismatched to the F30's that it can bring the whole system down. Some notice this right away and some never notice it. There are no perfect ears and no perfect speakers. All we can do is to search for the speakers that match our individual ears best in our given price range. Regards.

 

[Miles_W]

Ryan, I'm flattered

I'm telling you, you have to come over and hear it now! it has changed quite a bit since you were over last...
Miles
(ps I have my Sequel 2's up for sale If you are interested!)
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Miles
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DarkSide Member since(93)

 

[John Besse]

If I had the money to drop it would be Snell speakers all the way around with dual SVS Ultras on top of dual Energy Microstars.

I love the Snell XA-60 speakers and wish I could afford to ditch my Energy C-6s for them

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My DVD Collection
Link Removed
[Edited last by John Besse on September 01, 2001 at 02:43 AM]

 

[Bob_A]

There are several things that come to mind that set some speakers apart from the vast crowd.
1) Cabinet design and materials
2) High-quality drivers
3) Crossover design
Are there other manufacturers who combine the three items above exceptionally well?

Definitive Technology IMHO

 

[Ryan Peddle]

Miles...once school gets back underway and this damn gov't lets me have my drivers license (23 yrs old without on stinks), I'll get a hold of you and we will have a listen.
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Oops, I dropped my eardrums.
Could you pick them up for me?