The Apartment (1960) 4K restoration coming from Arrow (1 Viewer)

[Traveling Matt]

If you say so. But not letting them know one's preferences surely is not going to change that. They made a 4K scan after all. They could have done the usual 2K if 4K is of no interest to them.

Not just a 4K scan, a 4K restoration. This looks like the definitive package that pulls out all the stops save one. What's left to add to a UHD upgrade other than, well, UHD?

 

[Stephen PI]

The problem with some B/W transfers from the OCN is that as it is not graded, telecine graders often leave flesh tones as pure white so that any white or light backgrounds tend to blend. Faces should be tanned in various degrees from character to character.
When graders cannot handle this, it is better to go from a 35mm b/w fine grain.

 

[haineshisway]

Not just a 4K scan, a 4K restoration. This looks like the definitive package that pulls out all the stops save one. What's left to add to a UHD upgrade other than, well, UHD?

Restoration? Why?

 

[Traveling Matt]

Restoration? Why?

I wasn't suggesting a 4K restoration. According to their info that's what they already have. So they just need to author a UHD disc and include it in the package with the Blu-ray, and that'd close the door on The Apartment.

 

[AshJW]

Probably just PR.

 

[Garysb]

Looking forward to this.

 

[Alan Tully]

Restoration? Why?

Well I'd call a scan from the original negs of a 57 year old film a restoration: grading it from scratch, seeing to marks scratches & fluctuations & the cement joins could well have shrunk, leading to movement on shot changes that has to be dealt with, plus anything else they find. Yup, I'd call it a restoration.

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

I put in my order and look forward to other fine releases like this from Arrow.

I have Hellraiser: The Scarlet Box, Reanimator, Bride of Reanimator, Donnie Darko, Creepshow 2, The Hills Have Eyes, and my personal eye-blowing favorite, La Bete.

 

[haineshisway]

Well I'd call a scan from the original negs of a 57 year old film a restoration: grading it from scratch, seeing to marks scratches & fluctuations & the cement joins could well have shrunk, leading to movement on shot changes that has to be dealt with, plus anything else they find. Yup, I'd call it a restoration.

Many suppositions.

 

[commander richardson]

Many suppositions.

I shall wait until I have read the reviews from the people who know what they are talking about namely Home Theater reviewers....... I am sure picture quality will be improved over existing release but will it be noticeable .............

 

[david hare]

I think the time has come for Arfrow and the two Powerhouse labels Signal One (releasing Fox titles) and INdicator (releasing Sony titles) to actually start putting out dual 4K/HDR and regular Blu RAy combo sets. The majoroity of their releases now are from 4K remasters or restos now..

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I mean, in theory, that sounds great, but practically speaking, I'm not sure if now is the time.

I don't have any insider info on UHD, but I was working for a smaller home video label when Blu-ray and HD-DVD were developed and released. There are a number of practical problems to smaller labels jumping into advanced formats immediately. Among the issues, in general:

-The cost for replicating discs in a new format is disproportionately high compared to previous formats. These costs will come down over time as more replication plants are able to produce this type of disc and in greater quantities, but at the moment, it likely costs substantially more time replicate a UHD disc than it does a BD disc.

-Because there are fewer replication lines available, demand for them is higher. Priority is almost always given to major studios who do the bulk of the business for replicating plants, and if you're a small label, your titles will have a hard time getting scheduled for replication. And, at the first sign of trouble for a big studio title not making a release date, your indie label title will get bumped in favor of the big studio title. So you could very well plan a UHD release, have a street date all worked out, and then have the replicator tell you that there's going to be a three month delay on getting that to you.

-Home video catalog sales are currently struggling big time, with most titles unable to sell 3000 copies. Given that UHD adoption is at a fraction of what BD adoption is, if the BD version can only be expected to sell 3000 or so copies, how many copies are realistic for UHD at this point in time? 50? 100? 500? Those are all numbers below the minimum replication orders for every plant that I know of.


Given the above, as well as other factors, for an indie label to try to prepare a UHD at this point in time would be an expensive proposition with manufacturing and sales risks that could easily cause the title to be unprofitable before they've even had a chance to sell a single copy. A lot of those costs, scheduling issues and demand issues will straighten out after another year or two as the format gets a chance to move beyond the "early adopter" phase.

 

[david hare]

Im sure your reply consitutes real world concerns, I am dreaming I guess. And of all the labels to dive into the new format the smaller labels (these days doing bt the best work) are the one s who can least take the financial risk. What is proimpting me is the sheer volume and range of 4K master being produced by the majros now - Universal,. Canal, Fox , Warner and Sony among them. Warners seems to be doing different types of UHD disc packaging and content outside the States, hence the Blu Ray 4K of Blade Runner is a straight out dual BD UHD 2 discer. Priced everywhere here at AUD25.99 (around 20 USD.) More on the Wilder, James White oversaw the mastering, and David Mackenzie worked on the encode They're two fo the the best if not the best people working on UK Blu rays at the present time.

 

[titch]

I mean, in theory, that sounds great, but practically speaking, I'm not sure if now is the time.

-Home video catalog sales are currently struggling big time, with most titles unable to sell 3000 copies. Given that UHD adoption is at a fraction of what BD adoption is, if the BD version can only be expected to sell 3000 or so copies, how many copies are realistic for UHD at this point in time? 50? 100? 500? Those are all numbers below the minimum replication orders for every plant that I know of.


Given the above, as well as other factors, for an indie label to try to prepare a UHD at this point in time would be an expensive proposition with manufacturing and sales risks that could easily cause the title to be unprofitable before they've even had a chance to sell a single copy. A lot of those costs, scheduling issues and demand issues will straighten out after another year or two as the format gets a chance to move beyond the "early adopter" phase.

Agree - if DVD wasn't still outselling blu-ray on catalog titles, Criterion would not have stopped issuing their dual format discs three years ago. Instead they went back to releasing separate DVD and blu-ray versions of each release (except for the forthcoming Olympic box set). 4K is even more of a niche, despite all of us early adopters drooling over the prospect of labels such as Arrow or Criterion rolling out 4K versions of their 4K scans. Not that I'm an industry insider, but I would guess that a 4K version of a black and white film wouldn't be such a huge improvement over the 2K version, compared to colour film, apart from revealing more detail - if it was present in the film elements.

 

[OliverK]

I thought I remember someone once saying George Stevens, Jr. was holding up efforts regarding TGSET, like getting the extra footage from the print held in the Library of Congress to make an extended edition of the movie.

I am sure that they will love for us to believe that this is all they are waiting for. The Alamo was practically forced on them for free and they did their best to prevent a proper restoration even though it would only have cost them a nominal amount from what it looked like.

Still it might be possible to have a licensing agreement with them for a movie like The Hallelujah Trail but who is going to bite with the costs involved.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

Not that I'm an industry insider, but I would guess that a 4K version of a black and white film wouldn't be such a huge improvement over the 2K version, compared to colour film, apart from revealing more detail - if it was present in the film elements.

Black and white films are the only films where we can actually get full UHD resolution from the discs since there is no colour subsampling going on here. So these films would render the sharpest looking UHD discs given a 4K quality film master to work from.

 

[PMF]

[...] Home video catalog sales are currently struggling big time, with most titles unable to sell 3000 copies. Given that UHD adoption is at a fraction of what BD adoption is, if the BD version can only be expected to sell 3000 or so copies,
how many copies are realistic for UHD at this point in time? 50? 100? 500?
Those are all numbers below the minimum replication orders for every plant that I know of.[...]

Still, I don't see what the harm would be if they were to press a copy for me and a few more for the rest of us on this thread.

 

[PMF]

Amazon has this Special Limited Edition priced at $49.95, which is $35.05 less than the rent on C.C. Baxter's apartment.
Price-Wise, that seems pretty fair to me.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Amazon has this Special Limited Edition priced at $49.95, which is $35.05 less than the rent on C.C. Baxter's apartment.
Price-Wise, that seems pretty fair to me.

That's the MSRP so it hasn't been discounted yet. It will still be expensive somewhere around $30-32.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Black and white films are the only films where we can actually get full UHD resolution from the discs since there is no colour subsampling going on here. So these films would render the sharpest looking UHD discs given a 4K quality film master to work from.

Yeah but there is also the fact that film stock and processing varied wildly from year to year and film to film so the "sharpest available" may not be particularly sharp at all.