The Answer Is...Blu-ray! (1 Viewer)

[Paul Penna]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
As my wife and I were waiting (and waiting) for a Blu-ray to load in the player last night, I turned to her and told her how we (the HTF) had the ear of one of the top guys at Fox Home Entertainment on the very subject of Blu-ray discs and why hobbyists would support the format. I added that many were commenting on the long load times as a negative--and that, in particular, common-sense suggestions were being made about relocating the FBI/piracy warnings to the back end of the process and making the trailers for other films a bonus feature option...in other words--eliminating the barrier between the consumer and the desired product. She thought about that awhile--this was a subject which she clearly had never given a moment's thought before--and said simply "Cool. They really have made it difficult, haven't they? It is way too complicated...and long. Do you suppose they'll change it?" I agreed that it would be a huge step towards making the presentations better and said, "Well. They asked. We're hoping they listen."
 

And the disc still hadn't finished loading.

I think your wife is not only The Voice of Reason, but The Voice of How Most People Would Look at It. We tend to overlook the big part convenience plays in the mass-market adoption of new technology. LPs over 78s, CDs over LPs, DVDs over cassettes, they all had technological advantages, but they wouldn't have succeeded as they did if the big, mass market hadn't found them significantly more convenient than their predecessors. Now we have Blu-Ray that already has hurdles for the bigger market: greater expense for a relatively (for lots, if not most people) modest quality improvement. So they then proceed to make less convenient than the preceding technology.

 

[bigshot]

Over the weekend I watched the Criterion DVD of John Huston's Wise Blood on my 120 inch projection system. Not only did it look pretty much the same as Bluray movies, it looked very close to the way the film looked in the theater when I saw it. There are badly produced DVDs, but when they're done right, they can look fantastic.

The area where bluray has a definite advantage is widescreen movies. Polanski's Chinatown doesn't look as good on DVD as it should.

 

[Michael Reuben]

 

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon )
 

 

[bigshot]

I've been around since the early days of VHS too, and I noticed a trend with remotes. At first, they were simple and did the things you would want to do from the couch. As time went by, they started adding every single option, even setup things that would rarely change. The remotes got bigger and became blanketed with tiny unreadable buttons. Then they started making buttons do more than one thing depending on what "mode" you were in. Try figuring out what mode you're in in the dark!

Bluray menus are an extension of that progression. They're overly complex, double and triple nested and have settings in top hierarchies that don't need to be there. Plus, there's two different menu buttons to get to two different menus. I despise this kind of thing. I actually chucked a bluray player because the remote made me mad. Every time I put in a James Bond disk and I see obtuse menu options like "Mission details" and "Engage mission" I want to strangle the guy who thoughtbhe was being clever and creative by renaming "play movie" and "audio options" into haiku.

 

[Paul Penna]

Originally Posted by bigshot Every time I put in a James Bond disk and I see obtuse menu options like "Mission details" and "Engage mission" I want to strangle the guy who thoughtbhe was being clever and creative by renaming "play movie" and "audio options" into haiku.

The Fox Blu-Rays I have are the absolute worst in this respect, along with their load times (which also means long, dragged-out switch-between items load times, like going from one bonus feature to another, or chapter to chapter). The name Fox on a Blu-Ray is now a "don't buy" flag for me.

 

[robbbb1138]

Originally Posted by bigshot

Bluray menus are an extension of that progression. They're overly complex, double and triple nested and have settings in top hierarchies that don't need to be there. Plus, there's two different menu buttons to get to two different menus. I despise this kind of thing. I actually chucked a bluray player because the remote made me mad. Every time I put in a James Bond disk and I see obtuse menu options like "Mission details" and "Engage mission" I want to strangle the guy who thoughtbhe was being clever and creative by renaming "play movie" and "audio options" into haiku.

I can't remember which movie I'm thinking of, but I think there's some sci-fi movie where the "play", "scenes", "settings", etc. are in some alien glyph language until you move the cursor over that section.
 

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

 

Originally Posted by Michael Reuben

 

_Man_

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

On a similar note, I mentioned during a break at a video shoot last week that my wife doesn't do HDTV because ... there's too many numbers to press. And the male crew all exploded with the same story. You come home and they're watching a show in a stretched, distorted, fuzzier mode ... because they don't want to press FOUR buttons for the same thing in HD! And they don't care.

 

I plead, "All you have to do is press a 1-3 before your regular channel numbers." It doesn't matter. She won't do it. "It doesn't look that much different to me." Sigh. Oh well, at least she doesn't use up much space in the DVR with her analog shows.

 

Originally Posted by Michael Reuben )
 

/forum/thread/303612/why-blu-ray/60#post_3727682

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by robbbb1138




I can't remember which movie I'm thinking of, but I think there's some sci-fi movie where the "play", "scenes", "settings", etc. are in some alien glyph language until you move the cursor over that section.
 

 

Would that be Stargate. ?
 

 

[robbbb1138]

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder



 

Would that be Stargate. ?
 

Maybe. Or Predator?
 

 

[Ron-P]

Alien vr Predator I believe.

Originally Posted by robbbb1138




I can't remember which movie I'm thinking of, but I think there's some sci-fi movie where the "play", "scenes", "settings", etc. are in some alien glyph language until you move the cursor over that section.

 

[Steve...O]

Blu Rays are a joy to hehold when the proper materials exist and they are done right. However they are not currently a viable option for every movie out there. For every title like "Star Wars" that can be market justified to blu, you have titles like the Belvederes (Clifton Webb) that won't work for Blu but would be (I believe) viable on DVD.

 

DVD is still the best way to get a movie, particularly a classic, to the masses. Fox has historically and consistently produced some of the best looking DVDs out there and I would encourage Mr. Finn and team to not give up on DVD. My home video library is all the richer because of the wonderful product I've bought from them over the past decade.

 

It's all about the movie. I'd much rather than a quality DVD of many entertaining movies than a super high quality Blu of a very limited number of titles.

 

For those classics that do go Blu, please remember that not all classic film fans like musicals. I didn't buy South Pacific not becuase I don't like classic films, but because neither my wife or I are musical fans.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Q about the yet-to-be-released classics on DVD vs BD.

 

For those that still have not made it to DVD, would they really garner that many more sales on DVD than on BD? I get the feeling probably not hugely more or the studios would've released them already by now.

 

Part of the problem for DVD seems to be that the profit margins are much lower than for BD. For example, if it actually takes 4 DVD sales to equal 1 BD sale in terms of their bottomline -- and I have no idea what that number actually is -- then will they be able to sell 4x as many DVDs of those classics as BDs?

 

Maybe the truth is that most serious movie collectors already migrated to BD, and only a minority of them have not (yet). Meanwhile, the casual movie buyer may not spend any more than $3-5 on a classic DVD (or possibly any DVD at all). Is that really what the studios want to go after w/ their classics library? I have no idea, but that's something to consider.

 

Also, the truth could be that they feel they simply cannot make enough money back on those classics w/ *both* the DVD *and* the BD. Why else wouldn't they be released on DVD already (before BD got anywhere)?

 

Maybe they actually need to license those kinds of classics (in batches) to some other 3rd party to release them -- and they're just working on-and-off for that to happen at some point...

 

_Man_

 

[bigshot]

The problem with classics is that the marketing plans are all based on big releases that sell a lot right away then are replaced by other new releases. The studios look for short term success, and back catalog is more of a tortoise than a hare. Thankfully, some studios are seeing the value of repurposing transfers done for cable TV. Without that, pickings would be slim.

Serious fans of classic movies have definitely not migrated to bluray. One look at the number of pre 1940 bluray titles will verify that. Bluray is the domain of modern action movies and scifi.

 

[benbess]

Yes, studios need to think long term. They may need to invest half a million dollars now (or more) to bring a really good blu-ray to market on a classic title. But once they done that mastering it will probably sell steadily and have a new birth on HD cable.

 

I think studios need to have a time horizon of 3-5 years to earn back the money invested in a blu-ray release for a title, rather than thinking they'll earn back everything right away.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by benbess

Yes, studios need to think long term. They may need to invest half a million dollars now (or more) to bring a really good blu-ray to market on a classic title. But once they done that mastering it will probably sell steadily and have a new birth on HD cable.

 

I think studios need to have a time horizon of 3-5 years to earn back the money invested in a blu-ray release for a title, rather than thinking they'll earn back everything right away.

There are several studios, MGM pops into mind quickly, that are already remastering their catalog titles for HD cable. The problem is that the remastering has been accomplished, but the titles are still sitting on the selves until the economy gets better and they can figure out how to market them.
 

 

[ahollis]

I purchase just about all of my Blu-ray titles from the Internet as I suspect most people do, however once and awhile I go to Best Buy to check out the discounted Blu-ray titles or if there is a title I forgot to order. This week it was The Player. I went to two Best Buy stores and neither carried the title. They did have Lost In Space and Mars Attacks, but did not have Forbidden Planet or THX1136. This has got to be frustrating to the person that is still buying their titles in the stores. It is also a reason why I don't spend much money there anymore. I know it could the chicken before the egg thing, but If you feel a store is not going to have a title you want, why bother going there, and in turn, if the customer does not show up to purchase a title, then why should a store order a catalog title just to sit on it's self.

 

[robbbb1138]

Originally Posted by ahollis

I purchase just about all of my Blu-ray titles from the Internet as I suspect most people do, however once and awhile I go to Best Buy to check out the discounted Blu-ray titles or if there is a title I forgot to order. This week it was The Player. I went to two Best Buy stores and neither carried the title. They did have Lost In Space and Mars Attacks, but did not have Forbidden Planet or THX1136. This has got to be frustrating to the person that is still buying their titles in the stores. It is also a reason why I don't spend much money there anymore. I know it could the chicken before the egg thing, but If you feel a store is not going to have a title you want, why bother going there, and in turn, if the customer does not show up to purchase a title, then why should a store order a catalog title just to sit on it's self.

Yeah, I mostly find myself looking at Blu-Rays in Target or Wal-Mart. If I was a regular consumer and I never looked through online retailers or sites like this one, I'd still think Blu-Ray was in its infancy.
 

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

 

Originally Posted by bigshot
I purchase just about all of my Blu-ray titles from the Internet as I suspect most people do, however once and awhile I go to Best Buy to check out the discounted Blu-ray titles or if there is a title I forgot to order. This week it was The Player. I went to two Best Buy stores and neither carried the title. They did have Lost In Space and Mars Attacks, but did not have Forbidden Planet or THX1136. This has got to be frustrating to the person that is still buying their titles in the stores. It is also a reason why I don't spend much money there anymore. I know it could the chicken before the egg thing, but If you feel a store is not going to have a title you want, why bother going there, and in turn, if the customer does not show up to purchase a title, then why should a store order a catalog title just to sit on it's self.

Planning to pick up an on-sale BD (or maybe more) from them, but yeah, usually, I only do online order for in-store pickup when it comes to Best Buy. No sense going there w/out knowing I can actually walk out w/ what I want -- if I end up picking up more on sale, then that'd just be a bonus.

 

Just checked for The Player, and surprisingly, only 1 BB out of a dozen or so in the NYC metro area (including the few not that far off in NJ) has any available for in-store pickup, and that one isn't even in Manhattan or any of the other more popular shopping venues for BB over here -- Staten Island of all places(?). That's very lame indeed for a new release catalog title -- and although it's not one that too many people will know, I'd think Robert Altman and the other names in that cast should command a fair amount of curiosity to warrant being stocked (as a new catalog release) in more BBs in the area, particularly in Manhattan. I'm guessing this must be some kind of mistake/oversight or something because quite a few BBs in the area do stock other more obscure titles, including the recent BB exclusives like Secretary.

 

Maybe The Player will show up next week and be on sale (vs being near MSRP right now). I'm thinking I should place my in-store pickup order for something else right now and plan on dropping by next week to do the pickup and see what else goes on sale -- maybe they'll have The Player for under $15 at that point for all I know.

 

_Man_

 

[bigshot]

If fans of classic movies have migrated to bluray away from DVD, they must be willing to watch the same dozen films over and over again. The ratio of DVD to bluray in my collection is 200 to 1.