The Answer Is...Blu-ray! (1 Viewer)

[Robin9]

Originally Posted by benbess

Fox had a fine release with South Pacific. . . . .

 

I wonder how it has sold? Does anyone know.

 

One of the main things needed is to increase the number of releases of classic films from the 30s-70s on blu. Fox has hundreds of titles.

The sad, inescapable truth is that if the South Pacific BRD has not sold well, Fox will feel there is no need "to increase the number of releases of classic films from the 30s-70s on Blu".

 

[RobertR]

The screenshots in the Alien Anthology thread really reinforce my point. They can do an excellent job when they really give a damn. Why is it that they sometimes DON'T?

 

[bigshot]

If Fox did a first class release of Stormy Weather, they'd sell a good number.

 

[ahollis]

 

Originally Posted by Robin9

Quote:



The sad, inescapable truth is that if the South Pacific BRD has not sold well, Fox will feel there is no need "to increase the number of releases of classic films from the 30s-70s on Blu".

Do not have actual numbers, but if South Pacific did not sell to expectations, then there would not have been The Sound Of Music, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, and White Christmas all announced for November 2 of this year. Let alone Moulin Rouge (I know, not a 70's release) or Rocky Horror released this year. Warner's also released Music Man and Universal has The Wiz announced. It sounds as if something is being done right and things are looking up.


 

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

As a fan/collector, I'm in full agreement w/ most about "Why Blu-ray?" though I haven't read every post here -- only got to Cees' post about 1/2 way into page 2.

 

Originally Posted by Cees Alons

 

I was gonna suggest Fox (and other studios) simply take another page or two from Criterion (w/ very rare exception, that is) -- well, they sorta did that by giving us "extras", but often forgot/overlooked what really matters in the process.

 

Of course, respecting the film (and its fans) doesn't mean every title would need to be authored in exactly the same way w/ the exact same kinds of extras, etc. Some of that could depend on the film (and its likely fan-base) itself, but in the end, all that should ultimately serve the overall film presentation/experience itself, not reduce, distract or (unintentionally) sabotage it, eg. killing the stop/resume function was really bad and having that on top of the typically very slow load times to boot, especially considering how lame most uses of BD-J/BD-Live have been.

 

On certain specific occasions (for certain kinds of movies), I could imagine the in-movie presentation/experience be truly enhanced by some kind of optional extra akin to what a (live) community screening of The Rocky Horror Picture Show would be like, but so far, I haven't seen that on the numerous BDs I've watched (or heard about) -- I tried the Warner-run community screening of The Dark Knight w/ Christopher Nolan a while back, but it was a very lackluster and klugey affair.

 

_Man_

 

[Sam Favate]

Originally Posted by Finn

I hear you loud and clear and my intention is to not minimize the importance of the premium sound and picture quality that the best Blu-ray discs offer but to go deeper into what makes you a fan. Is it a personal connection to a film from your youth (Star Wars), a movie that you watched with your father and you want to revisit with your kids (Sound of Music). What inspires you in Blu-ray?

Putting aside the importance of the sound and picture quality on Blu-Ray, which we agree is the most important thing, I would say that, compared to DVD, Blu-Ray is superior for its storage capacity - which means that a disc can contain quality extras like making of- documentaries, commentaries, original trailers for the film (I can't emphasize how important this is to collectors, especially when remastered in HD); in short, a history of the film that allows viewers to put it in context of the history of film in general. None of that BD-live stuff is worth our attention, and I do not know anyone - collector or not - who pays it any mind.

 

Also, and this also cannot be stressed enough, the physicality of the product is important. We want to have the disc and its case on our shelves as part of a library (and most people buy films for some kind of personal connection, whether it was something that was inspiring or which we want to share with children or which we simply want to revisit again and again). The better the packaging, the better it sits on the shelf too. DVD had some great packages, with titles like Lawrence of Arabia or Bridge on the River Kwai including replicas of the theater program! Blu-ray, as yet, hasn't matched DVD for the quality of the package, but they're getting better.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

 

Originally Posted by ahollis

Also the draw back to the Blu-ray has been spoken about numerous times, I am just too impatient for the long load time and constantly upgrading the software. Then after all that time, have to sit through a bunch of trailers that I do not wish to see. BD Live does not mean a thing to me and I just scan right over it as an extra on the disc. The important part is the title itself, then the documentaries and trailers of the film.

 

 

Emphasis added by me. Yeah, the studios (and player makers) really need to get their act together about the frequent need for player firmware updates on top of the long load times.

 

Also a digital copy or a SDVD copy is a waste. If you are getting it in Blu-ray why do you want to watch it on your Ipod and most people buying the Blu-ray if it is a catalog title already have it on SDVD (Hear that Disney).

 

 

Personally, I wouldn't watch any digital copies myself, except maybe a TV series, but I can see more casual folks (and the kids) doing that on their portables, so offering such in a targeted manner might make sense. More or less the same for the combo packs that include a separate DVD (although more serious fans may use the DVD on occasion when BD access is not available). Combo packs probably makes sense for certain new day-and-date releases (since fans would not have owned the DVD yet), especially for family-oriented titles where it's more likely for the DVD to be useful for travel use and such by the kids. And although most families probably already own whatever family-oriented classics on DVD, sometimes, the DVD could use replacing anyhow, and then, there are always more new families entering the market for such as well.

 

Yeah, ideally, the studios would just give people a choice to get the title w/ or w/out the DVD included -- and maybe just charge a buck or two less w/out the DVD -- but I guess it works better for the studios' bottomlines to not offer that choice in most cases.

 

One thing though. I'm definitely against the BD+DVD flipper format that Universal (and a few small distributors) is trying out right now. There have already been a couple long threads on that topic -- and I've explained my own beef w/ that multiple times now -- so I won't go into details here. Just don't go that route, Fox, et al! And if you do, definitely offer us a choice (to go w/out the flipper) in that case.

 

_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

Michael nailed exactly what I wanted to say, only 100x better than I could.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/303612/why-blu-ray/30#post_3726216

 

[Paul Penna]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

Michael nailed exactly what I wanted to say, only 100x better than I could.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/303612/why-blu-ray/30#post_3726216

Agreed. Well, except for the trailers. At most I give them one look, and that's only with classic films; for me they might as well not be there. But otherwise, everything else is right on. I have friends new to Blu-Ray who complain about how cumbersome it is compared to DVD, and others who, when they're there when I play one, wonder why I put up with it. I wonder if there's any objective data about potential customers getting turned off by the inconvenience and complexity?

 

[Edwin-S]

I really don't see any problems with Blu-ray that don't have their exact analogues with DVD, except load times. Blu-ray does tend to have longer load times than DVD; although, I find the inconvenience to be minimal since I'm using a PS3 and that seems to help. My only reason for adopting Blu-ray is exactly the same for previously adopting DVD: improved picture and sound.

 

[cafink]

Originally Posted by Edwin-S

I really don't see any problems with Blu-ray that don't have their exact analogues with DVD, except load times.

More draconian copy protection, DRM, etc. is my biggest concern. There is a DVD analogue in that DVDs were also protected & encrypted, but using a much weaker scheme. I have a Blu-ray drive in my linux computer and I can't even watch a legitimately-purchased Blu-ray movie on it.

 

[Edwin-S]

Originally Posted by cafink




More draconian copy protection, DRM, etc. is my biggest concern. There is a DVD analogue in that DVDs were also protected & encrypted, but using a much weaker scheme. I have a Blu-ray drive in my linux computer and I can't even watch a legitimately-purchased Blu-ray movie on it.

Actually, that is a good point. I don't watch BDs on computer so I haven't run into that particular problem.

 

[soop.spoon]

Hmmm.... so many great responses... I'll try an angle that I haven't read yet.

 

What inspires me about Blu-Ray?

 

My answer is one word: Rediscovery.

 

The recent Jason & The Argonauts release was what convinced me to finally make the Blu-Ray plunge. Watching it in this medium was like rediscovering the film... the video quality and detail was astounding. An old favorite was given a new life and by no means was the SD DVD sub-par. I was excited again about watching a nearly 50-year-old movie! My appreciation for the film itself hasn't changed since I watched it on a 13" TV in my bedroom... but the new format really makes it exciting to watch again.

 

So......... I really look forward to "rediscovering" other great old favorites like Journey To The Center Of The Earth, Zardoz, Niagara, Fantastic Voyage, etc

 

[Walter Kittel]

Re: Rediscovery.

 

No doubt. I have written in the past that one of the real treasures of front projection was the ability to recapture the cinematic experience for classic titles that one never had the chance to see theatrically. Blu-ray (and High Definition in general) augments that experience greatly. Seeing classics like Forbidden Planet, Casablanca, How The West Was One, The Adventures of Robin Hood, Goldfinger, etc. on Blu-Ray is a real treat (and even more so via Front Projection.)

 

- Walter.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned is the ability to navigate through the menu while watching the content. Initially when the HD formats launched I thought it was a gimmick, but since I have been watching a lot of TV of DVD lately its something I miss.

 

[Sam Favate]

Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich

One thing I haven't heard mentioned is the ability to navigate through the menu while watching the content. Initially when the HD formats launched I thought it was a gimmick, but since I have been watching a lot of TV of DVD lately its something I miss.

While on the subject of menus, I will add that one thing I definitely don't like is having the movie play as soon as I put the disc in - something that Warner does on many of its BDs. That said, if I stop a movie in the middle, I do appreciate it starting up right where I left off when I put it back in the player. I don't care for Warner's menu system at all - for one thing, the size of the type is often so small that I have to get up close to read the damn thing.

 

[PaulDA]

Originally Posted by Sam Favate




While on the subject of menus, I will add that one thing I definitely don't like is having the movie play as soon as I put the disc in - something that Warner does on many of its BDs. That said, if I stop a movie in the middle, I do appreciate it starting up right where I left off when I put it back in the player. I don't care for Warner's menu system at all - for one thing, the size of the type is often so small that I have to get up close to read the damn thing.

Hhmmm. My wife considers her fondest wish regarding the operation of a disc player to watch movies finally fulfilled when she comes across a Warner disc that starts the movie up as soon as she puts in the disc. Whenever I ask her to watch something with me, her reply is always "come get me when all the 'set-up crap' is done". When she puts a movie on for herself, it is a given that muttered curses will accompany the procedure--except when the occasional Warner BD starts right away. Can't please everyone, I guess.

 

[Parker Clack]

I am in the camp of wanting to have a Blu-ray disc of the movie and nothing else. You put the disc in the machine, push start and the movie starts playing.

 

If they have enough room on the disc after the film has gone by to put in the copy right notice, the trailers (and I agree without any questions that this should be a must have to go along with the movie) and whatever else they want to throw in there would be fine. If not put it on another disc. Make it SD if you want. Who cares? The bottom line is that the movie itself needs the best video that can be produced without out all the hoopla like DNR, Edge enhancement and so forth and with lossless audio only.

 

To say what drives me to this hobby is like asking an art collector why he spends all his money on great art or why the guys that spend major dollars on something like a depreciating product like a car. Its in our DNA that's why. It is coded into us to enjoy this visual and audio media that stimulates our senses to the extremes that our emotions can take us. For me it is the whole package. It is my Bugatti. It is my Monet. It is my Bach. It is worth spending my hard earned money on. And anything that I spend my money on has got to be worth it. So why Blu-ray? Because it is worth it. But that is to the extent that it isn't a cheap knock off of the original. As anyone that where to buy a Monet and found out that it was just a good copy, when a film that has the opportunity to be displayed showing me the brush stokes and the orchestration of the artist that created it is instead handed to me as a knockoff of the original I feel like someone has been playing three card monty with my money. The potential for Blu-ray is there. Now it is up to the people behind their product to give it to the consumer as it was intended. That will keep me coming back.

 

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by Parker Clack


To say what drives me to this hobby is like asking an art collector why he spends all his money on great art or why the guys that spend major dollars on something like a depreciating product like a car. Its in our DNA that's why. It is coded into us to enjoy this visual and audio media that stimulates our senses to the extremes that our emotions can take us. For me it is the whole package. It is my Bugatti. It is my Monet. It is my Bach. It is worth spending my hard earned money on. And anything that I spend my money on has got to be worth it. So why Blu-ray? Because it is worth it. But that is to the extent that it isn't a cheap knock off of the original. As anyone that where to buy a Monet and found out that it was just a good copy, when a film that has the opportunity to be displayed showing me the brush stokes and the orchestration of the artist that created it is instead handed to me as a knockoff of the original I feel like someone has been playing three card monty with my money. The potential for Blu-ray is there. Now it is up to the people behind their product to give it to the consumer as it was intended. That will keep me coming back.

 

Nicely said, Parker.

 

Most of the people I know have yet to make the jump to Blu-ray. When they learn that I have, I get the expected questions of "why?" along with statements such as ""I'm fine with DVD" or "I don't see the need, DVD is plenty good enough."

 

I respect their position--without a doubt--but when they ask me "why," I've had a hard time explaining satisfactorily that the increased quality in the audio and video presentation is hugely important to me. It makes me appreciate the film/TV show all that much more.
 

Even my wife doesn't usually "get it." Whenever I get excited about a particular film or moment in a film and the way it looks/sounds on my set-up, she usually just shrugs her shoulders when I 'm gesticulating wildly about my enthusiasm. There are times, though, that even she will comment about how she's never seen xyz look so good before.
 

My own HT doesn't match up with most of those here at the HTF, but the reason I spend so much time here is that shared enthusiasm for the highest possible quality of the films and TV product that is made available to the public.
 

=========================

 

An anecdote on the discussion about the slow front-end loading of the discs...

 

As my wife and I were waiting (and waiting) for a Blu-ray to load in the player last night, I turned to her and told her how we (the HTF) had the ear of one of the top guys at Fox Home Entertainment on the very subject of Blu-ray discs and why hobbyists would support the format. I added that many were commenting on the long load times as a negative--and that, in particular, common-sense suggestions were being made about relocating the FBI/piracy warnings to the back end of the process and making the trailers for other films a bonus feature option...in other words--eliminating the barrier between the consumer and the desired product. She thought about that awhile--this was a subject which she clearly had never given a moment's thought before--and said simply "Cool. They really have made it difficult, haven't they? It is way too complicated...and long. Do you suppose they'll change it?" I agreed that it would be a huge step towards making the presentations better and said, "Well. They asked. We're hoping they listen."

 

And the disc still hadn't finished loading.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I went back and viewed some dvd's from my collection recently, after being used to watching HD content via blu ray for the past few years i was shocked at how mushy and undetailed the dvd's were, then i noticed the annoying compression artifacts and edge enhancement all over the dvd's, now the thing is i was speaking to someone who has worked on dvd releases and they told me that contrary to popular belief a dvd can handle film grain, it can be made without adding edge enhancement and filtering the detail away, it's just studio's don't do it. There are a small number of DVD releases which can look excellent when upscaled but they will never be able to hold a candle to the blu ray release if it's done right.

 

If i was viewing on a small monitor it wouldn't matter too much to me but at 104 inches blu ray really is a delight and wonderfully detailed, sometimes a film comes along such as Saving Private Ryan or Armageddon or Avatar and it's like being at the cinema because they put extra care into the transfer, i especially love watching film classics on the big screen.

 

I don't want to stream my movie or download it, hard drives fail, backing up data all the time is annoying and frankly my 10 gigabyte allowance wouldn't get me much in the way of downloads, sure it was 50 gigabyte but even that won't get me much, i changed to a lower package with my internet provider because i barely use 8 gigabyte a month so why pay more. Anyway if everyone downloaded content i believe the servers would be clogged up and start to run real slow, network pipes can't handle it in 2010, maybe in 2020.

 

Oh and television shows can look stunning in HD, i just finished watching Lost ( what an ending! ) looks fab in HD. I was a huge X Files fan, still am and have cast an eye at Fringe, not sure if i'd like it but i might try that sometime as i hear it's sorta an X Files type of show.

 

I occasionally will pay extra for a boxset, i bought The Wizard Of Oz boxset with collectible booklet, watch and all the rest, but mostly i am happy to just get the movie, as far as extra content goes well i'll have deleted scenes, bloopers and audio commentaries and i wish they would put the theatrical trailer on the disc in HD and 5.1 sound but too many releases either omit it or show it in appalling quality, as far as hooking my player up to the internet so i can look up IMDB, forget it, they can also keep their fluff five minute kiss ass extra's where one actor praises the director and vice versa. Thorough documentaries are good though such as the one found on the Gone With The Wind disc.

 

Oh the question was why blu ray. ?

 

Well i would say do your research, the internet has all the information, this forum contains much info too, don't get into blu ray if you are going to sit a mile back from your television because you will not see the increase in detail, sit at a reasonable distance and you will see the quality that the format has to offer.

 

I love technology, i can't wait for 4K, yah i know the studio's are still using some old masters so a move to 4k isn't really on the cards....yet, but i remember 9 years ago how many raved about dvd being good enough, before that laserdisc was good enough, you get my point, a lot of 35mm movies can potentially have over 4k of picture detail if the studio does brand new scans so i think looking ahead we might get a new 4k format, sure thats the future, maybe eight years or more off but considering how technology is evolving and screens continue to grow in size then i can see 4k being a consideration, mind you i know there is the diminishing returns factor that comes into play it would be nice to see 1 terrabyte discs in eight years time and 4k content which is backwards compatible with blu ray discs.

 

Forget everything i said above, i just want them to get their asses into gear and do more up to date film scans and preferably at 4k for 35mm content and 8k for 70mm content, and god i so want them to be more careful when downconverting as ringing is ugly as hell and it happens too often on releases.

 

I'm now going way off topic, blu ray is good, watch it with your bran flakes each morning and you will grow up big and strong and with a bright blu outlook on life.