"The Alamo"s Status? (1 Viewer)

[Capnvid]

"Doing a real disservice to Jimmy Grant....."

I meant no disrespect to Mr. Grant, or any in his family, or anyone who struggles with alcohol. Grant's script for "Hondo" is an example of what you mention as his helpful effect on Wayne's stature as an actor and icon. I also greatly enjoyed "Angel And The Bad Man," which Grant wrote and directed. I take responsibility for using the events described in Mr. Farkis' lengthy book. Grant's drinking and feuds with Wayne are discussed in detail, as is their friendship and Wayne's reliance on "The Alamo's" co-producer. Mr. Grant's work with the SC branch of AA isn't described, but I hope it brought him some peace in his later years. His career was a lot more impressive than most of ours.

No apologies for what I said about "The Alamo" script. It is not the film's best asset. The really well written "scattered" scenes I mentioned include Richard Boone's first Sam Houston scene with Travis, Dickenson and Bonham, which sets the film's motivation and characters admirably.. The best written scene in "The Alamo" is Travis' "All Honor" speech to Crockett, Bowie and their forces as they are leaving the fort after Santa Ana's brutal first assault. They all wind up staying, thanks to Mr. Grant's words, interpreted by Laurence Harvey. I wish the rest of the script, written over a decade by Grant and others, including John Ford's brother Patrick, was as pointed and effective.

 

[Robin9]

You are doing a real disservice to Jimmy Grant, by dismissing him this way. He worked with Duke closely on his films from 1947 thru 1964. His writings of scenes helped establish Duke as one of the greatest American actors. And if I'm not mistaking, he was one of the leading proponents of the SC branch of AA, when he wrote the screenplay for The Alamo.

That may be true without being the whole truth. I remember in The Name Above The Title, Frank Capra had something to say about James Edward Grant's attitude to writing John Wayne screenplays. He had a couple of things to say about Grant himself. I assure you, it's worth reading.

 

[jim_falconer]

"Doing a real disservice to Jimmy Grant....."

I meant no disrespect to Mr. Grant, or any in his family, or anyone who struggles with alcohol. Grant's script for "Hondo" is an example of what you mention as his helpful effect on Wayne's stature as an actor and icon. I also greatly enjoyed "Angel And The Bad Man," which Grant wrote and directed. I take responsibility for using the events described in Mr. Farkis' lengthy book. Grant's drinking and feuds with Wayne are discussed in detail, as is their friendship and Wayne's reliance on "The Alamo's" co-producer. Mr. Grant's work with the SC branch of AA isn't described, but I hope it brought him some peace in his later years. His career was a lot more impressive than most of ours.

No apologies for what I said about "The Alamo" script. It is not the film's best asset. The really well written "scattered" scenes I mentioned include Richard Boone's first Sam Houston scene with Travis, Dickenson and Bonham, which sets the film's motivation and characters admirably.. The best written scene in "The Alamo" is Travis' "All Honor" speech to Crockett, Bowie and their forces as they are leaving the fort after Santa Ana's brutal first assault. They all wind up staying, thanks to Mr. Grant's words, interpreted by Laurence Harvey. I wish the rest of the script, written over a decade by Grant and others, including John Ford's brother Patrick, was as pointed and effective.

thanks for clearing up my misinterpretation of your post. Appreciate your posts, very insightful and informative...thanks again

 

[Capnvid]

"thanks for...."

Your welcome Jim! It's nice to hear your thoughts in all your posts. Enjoyed your "Chisum" post which included Chuck Roberson. A really great part of "The Alamo,' both as an actor and a stuntman.

 

[70 Millman]

"The Alamo" in the theatre earned its considerable "Wow" factor the old-fashioned movie way. John Wayne wanted to impress the audiences of the day, and impress them he did, with every state-of-the-art filmmaking weapon in the arsenal (plenty of real arsenal weapons too). I'm telling you, my parents never came home from any movie as impressed, sobered even, and we're Canadian!

Impressive statement about your parents and their ability to let themselves be "Wowed". Obviously they "came home" from an experience in a theater, not from
being stuck in their heads watching "The Alamo" on some glorified T.V.

 

[OliverK]

I am surprised we still have to discuss the quality of The Alamo as a movie. Yes, there are better large format movies but it is not exactly a waste of celluloid and funding seemed to have been secured to restore it properly so one may wonder why nothing was done at that stage.

Just recently a major studio and an outside entitiy have worked together to bring us another very special large format movie with One Eyed Jacks and this should show MGM that there is no shame in accepting outside help - very few restorations of this kind pay for themselves and even studios like Warner have only tackled some of their large format movies when they were that expensive to restore (Ben-Hur, HTWWW and North by Northwest).

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I will be there, day one, cash in hand, for the BD of One-Eyed Jacks. If a 4K version of the roadshow of The Alamo gets a limited release, I will get tickets to the nearest showing, and I will be going in blind. Why? Because it's important to support restoration efforts of classic films. Whether or not I end up liking them after the experience is another matter. The experience and support is what matters.

Film has become a lens for interpreting history, and we will all be better off for experiencing such (now) rarities in their proper context. I bought the Criterion discs of The Red Shoes and The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp sight unseen, and look forward to B&N Criterion sales to continue expanding my understanding of this important filmmaking team. Until The Red Shoes, the only The Archers production I had seen was Black Narcissus on a faded 16mm print on PBS in the 80s. That is not the way to see their films. We need to use the technology with which we have been blessed not only for the latest whiz-bang summer releases, but to make the most out of the classics, without which there would have been no push to advance the technology, technique and skills of cinematic storytelling to where they are today.

*drops mic, gets off soapbox*

 

[OliverK]

I will be there, day one, cash in hand, for the BD of One-Eyed Jacks. If a 4K version of the roadshow of The Alamo gets a limited release, I will get tickets to the nearest showing, and I will be going in blind. Why? Because it's important to support restoration efforts of classic films. Whether or not I end up liking them after the experience is another matter. The experience and support is what matters.

Very well put - buy the disc, show up at screenings. How else can we expect that more discs and screenings will follow?

 

[RolandL]

The film was re-cut to work around damage done during the transfer. Wrong shots in the wrong places. it's a bit like being a little bit pregnant. Either something is, or is not, the Roadshow.

So the print (that came from Canada) that was used for the laser disc was not the actual roadshow version. They showed that print at Ontario Place in Toronto for the annual 70mm winter film festival in the early 1980's.

Here is more information on the print used for the laser disc.

"Telephoning Ms. Contardi at MGM/UA in Toronto again, she informed me that she also received numerous calls and that the print itself would be on its way back to the MGM/UA Classics Division offices in Hollywood that very week. So, good lord willing, this priceless document is in safe hands, hands that will respect it and treat it with all the reverence due a true work of art by one of the greatest figures in all of American or world folklore: John Wayne."

 

[Robert Harris]

So the print (that came from Canada) that was used for the laser disc was not the actual roadshow version. They showed that print at Ontario Place in Toronto for the annual 70mm winter film festival in the early 1980's.

Here is more information on the print used for the laser disc.

"Telephoning Ms. Contardi at MGM/UA in Toronto again, she informed me that she also received numerous calls and that the print itself would be on its way back to the MGM/UA Classics Division offices in Hollywood that very week. So, good lord willing, this priceless document is in safe hands, hands that will respect it and treat it with all the reverence due a true work of art by one of the greatest figures in all of American or world folklore: John Wayne."

The print, pre-damage, WAS the roadshow version.

All damage came from handling, during, and especially after, via improper storage by MGM of the element.

 

[Tom St Jones]

Earlier this year I made my annual nomination for "The Alamo" to be inducted to the Library of Congress National Film Registry. Now, admittedly a handful of (or even a few hundred) film buffs/cinephiles voting each year for a certain film may not make much of a difference. BUT what if we were able to create a movement - not unlike a massive letter-writing campaign - in which several thousand people nominate 'The Alamo' next time around? Enough to get Library of Congress to take notice, at least. Instead of further complaining to and/or wasting emails on MGM, who clearly have no interest in saving the film, why not direct our efforts and words toward someone who "could" (repeat, "could") save it.?
I realise this might sound silly and/or unlikely, but it's the best idea I have to contribute at the moment.

 

[cinemiracle]

So the print (that came from Canada) that was used for the laser disc was not the actual roadshow version. They showed that print at Ontario Place in Toronto for the annual 70mm winter film festival in the early 1980's.

Here is more information on the print used for the laser disc.

"Telephoning Ms. Contardi at MGM/UA in Toronto again, she informed me that she also received numerous calls and that the print itself would be on its way back to the MGM/UA Classics Division offices in Hollywood that very week. So, good lord willing, this priceless document is in safe hands, hands that will respect it and treat it with all the reverence due a true work of art by one of the greatest figures in all of American or world folklore: John Wayne."

I strongly disagree with you Roland, on your last sentence.

 

[RolandL]

I strongly disagree with you Roland, on your last sentence.

The last sentence came from the linked article, not me. I bolded it as a joke. We all know MGM did not take proper care of the print.

The print, pre-damage, WAS the roadshow version.All damage came from handling, during, and especially after, via improper storage by MGM of the element.

So, the elements used for the laser disc were not from that print?

Earlier this year I made my annual nomination for "The Alamo" to be inducted to the Library of Congress National Film Registry. Now, admittedly a handful of (or even a few hundred) film buffs/cinephiles voting each year for a certain film may not make much of a difference. BUT what if we were able to create a movement - not unlike a massive letter-writing campaign - in which several thousand people nominate 'The Alamo' next time around? Enough to get Library of Congress to take notice, at least. Instead of further complaining to and/or wasting emails on MGM, who clearly have no interest in saving the film, why not direct our efforts and words toward someone who "could" (repeat, "could") save it.?
I realise this might sound silly and/or unlikely, but it's the best idea I have to contribute at the moment.

I have already contacted the Library of Congress National Film Registry about The Alamo. They have a print but its the short version.

 

[OliverK]

The print, pre-damage, WAS the roadshow version.

All damage came from handling, during, and especially after, via improper storage by MGM of the element.

Sickening and another reason why collectors will be reluctant to part with rare and one of a kind prints.

I have seen numerous prints of that vintage and while they fade there is no reasons why a properly treated and stored print that was received in good shape by all accounts should not be in good enough shape today to produce a Blu-ray of it. Except of course if it has been given into the hands of MGM in order to be treated with their special brand of respect and reverence ...

 

[PMF]

That may be true without being the whole truth. I remember in The Name Above The Title, Frank Capra had something to say about James Edward Grant's attitude to writing John Wayne screenplays. He had a couple of things to say about Grant himself. I assure you, it's worth reading.

a MUST and a treasure of a book.

 

[PMF]

I have already contacted the Library of Congress National Film Registry about The Alamo. They have a print but its the short version.

If the Library of Congress officially inducted "The Alamo" into their National Film Registry, would they have the power and influence to request - or even demand - the longer version from the MGM vaults?

 

[Robert Harris]

If the Library of Congress officially inducted "The Alamo" into their National Film Registry, would they have the power and influence to request - or even demand - the longer version from the MGM vaults?

No. And if they did, from what might the longer version be derived?

 

[Robert Harris]

So the print (that came from Canada) that was used for the laser disc was not the actual roadshow version. They showed that print at Ontario Place in Toronto for the annual 70mm winter film festival in the early 1980's.

Here is more information on the print used for the laser disc.

"Telephoning Ms. Contardi at MGM/UA in Toronto again, she informed me that she also received numerous calls and that the print itself would be on its way back to the MGM/UA Classics Division offices in Hollywood that very week. So, good lord willing, this priceless document is in safe hands, hands that will respect it and treat it with all the reverence due a true work of art by one of the greatest figures in all of American or world folklore: John Wayne."

When work was completed, using the near-pristine 70mm print for a video release, it was cut into thousand foot rolls, dumped into cartons, and shipped to print inventory, as opposed being returned to the Academy, which had accepted it for safe-keeping.

When I finally located the print c. 2000, in a non-climate controlled warehouse, and we pulled it out of the cartons...

 

[PMF]

No. And if they did, from what might the longer version be derived?

Well, that's where I had wondered if the Library of Congress were to wield an influence on MGM, by requesting that they lend their full cooperation and assistance in allowing an Archivist to gain access to all vaulted materials.
Do remember, I am very green in learning how this all works;
yet, in the long run, a future donation to a designated film preservation society might prove to be far more effective than the sum of my "inspired" ideas.

 

[B-ROLL]

When work was completed, using the near-pristine 70mm print for a video release, it was cut into thousand foot rolls, dumped into cartons, and shipped to print inventory, as opposed being returned to the Academy, which had accepted it for safe-keeping.

When I finally located the print c. 2000, in a non-climate controlled warehouse, and we pulled it out of the cartons...


View attachment 32472

That is extremely sad to see. It looks like there's some image on the undamaged part would that be able to be scanned ?