"The Alamo"s Status? (1 Viewer)

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Whoever suggested not restoring it needs to be fired, and blacklisted from the industry.

 

[sonomatom1]

I know I keep beating my poor, old horse nearly to death, but since RAH has confirmed that a restoration of the film cannot, and is not going to, happen, I still wish some enterprising company would take the Director's Cut LD and transfer it to DVD and package it with the care and respect the film deserves (and although it no longer owns the rights to the film, I would think that Batjac Productions would like to see this happen to help further the legacy of John Wayne). I wonder if the LD version has gone out of copyright?

Yes, yes, I know, it would not be blu-ray, and I don't know how much degradation there would be in the quality of the print once its transferred from one medium to another (that's for the techies to weigh-in on), but I want to see and own the film again even if it isn't nearly the same remarkable quality as "Lawrence of Arabia", "Spartacus", etc.- but the Director's Cut of the "Alamo" does still exist on LD (and peripherally on VHS) undamaged and complete, and although these formats have been retired, let's take advantage of them to restore those films that we want to see again (but sadly may no longer exist in their native formats) before they are truly lost forever.

 

[ahollis]

A Few Words of...™ Doom.


Thank you for making this clear, once again.

Does the "but one of many in the library" refer to the number of other films in immediate danger, or just to the sheer immensity of the library?

Now I'm very scared. Very scared indeed.

 

[ROclockCK]

I know I keep beating my poor, old horse to nearly to death, but since RAH has confirmed that a restoration of the film cannot, and is not going to, happen, I still wish some enterprising company would take the Director's Cut LD and transfer it to DVD and package it with the care and respect the film deserves (and although it no longer owns the rights to the film, I would think that Batjac Productions would like to see this happen to help further the legacy of John Wayne). I wonder if the LD version has gone out of copyright?

Yes, yes, I know, it would not be blu-ray, and I don't know how much degradation there would be in the quality of the print once its transferred from one medium to another (that's for the techies to weigh-in on), but I want to see and own the film again even if it isn't nearly the same remarkable quality as "Lawrence of Arabia", "Spartacus", etc.- but the Director's Cut of the "Alamo" does still exist on LD (and peripherally on VHS) undamaged and complete, and although these formats have been retired, let's take advantage of them to restore those films that we want to see again (but sadly may no longer exist in their native formats) before they are truly lost forever.

You'd think that a film starring John Wayne...also directed by John Wayne...would have higher than usual mainstream appeal on both Blu-ray and DVD.

One option would be a South Pacific-style solution...Disc 1 could contain the shorter post-roadshow theatrical cut in HD, and Disc 2 could contain the longer roadshow (or LD/VHS extended cuts) in SD. Toss in some retrospective interviews, and I think MGM (or a licensee) would have a pretty formidable fan and collector friendly package.

 

[Richard V]

Well, I guess my hopes have been dashed for the last time. At least I have 3 pristine (for whatever that's worth) VHS copies of the Director's Cut, and an HD version of the shorter cut that was apparently broadcast in Europe (Italy or Switzerland). The fact that the HD version of the shorter cut looks remarkable, makes me cringe with frustration and sadness even more, thinking of what a full Bluray 1080p restoration of the Director's cut, MIGHT have been.

 

[sonomatom1]

Richard V: you idea re "South Pacific" is exactly what I was thinking about. I don't think all hope is dead yet; we just need to persuade MGM (ya, right!) or the current licensee to see the marketability of our ideas! Perhaps if we could get RAH on-board (since I believe he did the work on the LD version) to make a few phone calls...

 

[FoxyMulder]

Richard V: you idea re "South Pacific" is exactly what I was thinking about. I don't think all hope is dead yet; we just need to persuade MGM (ya, right!) or the current licensee to see the marketability of our ideas! Perhaps if we could get RAH on-board (since I believe he did the work on the LD version) to make a few phone calls...

I would imagine Mr Harris has made a few phone calls already, his phone bill is probably five figures from all the calling, i doubt there is much hope, the negative is probably suffering from vinegar syndrome and beyond repair.

If you want to try something there is always the kickstarter funding, raise a million and maybe you can persuade MGM to take an interest, i still doubt it would happen, i think studio politics get in the way, some films are loved by the people in charge, these are the people who make the decisions and they have the final say in such matters and, some films are unloved and left to rot, there is an awful lot of films left to rot and lost to time, unfortunately i really don't see much hope for The Alamo at this point.

 

[sonomatom1]

Malcolm: I think you missed the point of my comments and a couple of earlier ones: we were discussing about the possibility of RAH kickstarting a plan to find a studio that will transfer the existing LD version of the film to DVD. Mr. Harris has already done more than can be expected, but perhaps it can help us take the film's transfer from LD to DVD over the finish line -- at least we'll have an extant version of "Roadshow" version of this great movie!

 

[Tom St Jones]

"And Charlie, don't forget about what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he ever wanted. He lived happily ever after" (from Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory)

I don't want to be a downer, but few people in life can honestly say they got everything they ever wanted, and this fact may be working against us here with regards to saving "The Alamo". If we sat back and counted the number of things we have achieved or been blessed with, we'd realize we've been pretty fortunate. Nevertheless, we should not give up hope for an eleventh-hour rescue of the film, or at least something near it. What I don't get is, if MGM intends to do nothing themselves, why don't they just license it out whoever is willing to pay, especially if that third party were willing to commit funds toward some form of restoration. MGM is not going to make any money off a dead property of any kind. Has Janus Films/ Criterion approached MGM about licensing the film? Olive Films? (I haven't been keeping track).

 

[sonomatom1]

Tom St Jones - what no longer exists can't be restored:

"There is no restoration effort at this time.

Which means that there may never be a restoration effort.

It appears that MGM has chosen to allow the film to die, as no immediate action will be taken, with elements just one stage above that of industrial waste....

RAH"

If Robert Harris can resuscitate the film, no one can. We all have to remember that the fate of this film was decided nearly a half-century ago. Those at MGM now can't undo what their predecessors did. It's tragic, its unconscionable, but its done, so unless ANOTHER salvagable print is still out there hidden away, I think the issue is closed.

 

[Jari K]

"I think the issue is closed."While I fully believe RAH, I also believe that no issue is truly "closed" in the movie business. There's always hope, no matter how slim that hope is.

 

[Christian T Lee]

Good Afternoon All,

I just wanted to take a moment and give a big thank you to all involved in this thread.

I realized that in all my 43 years I had never seen The Alamo, but the topic of film restoration and preservation fascinates me and I have been following this topic since its inception.

So last weekend when I was lucky enough to acquire a copy of the Restored Director’s Cut on Laser Disc at an Estate Sale (for $3 no less) needless to say I was thrilled.

And once getting the old Laser Disc player out of storage (and judging from the awful creaks and groans it made starting up it is not long for this world) after not having started it in over 15 years I was absolutely thrilled to discover this movie.

I have yet to watch the Making of Feature on sides 4 and 5 but I will get to it this weekend.

Truly unfortunate the status of a possible restoration and release on Blu Ray.

However this just goes to show what a fantastic resource The Home Theatre Forum is, for if not for you all I would never had the pleasure of seeing this original version of the film, so Thank You Everyone.

Now I am off to make a DVD-R backup of the set as that groaning player is starting to smell rather odd as well so I will strike while the iron is hot and get my back up

Thanks all
Take care
Christian

 

[Jacksmyname]

I envy you, Christian. Seeing a great movie for the first time is a treat, probably moreso as an adult rathe
r than a kid. And to be able to score the LD of The Alamo like you did is way cool!

 

[JoeDoakes]

I envy you, Christian. Seeing a great movie for the first time is a treat, probably moreso as an adult rathe
r than a kid. And to be able to score the LD of The Alamo like you did is way cool!

I first saw The Alamo on the Sunday night movie when I was around 8. Although there are other things that I can appreciate now that I am older, one can't beat the excitement level for a film like that in the mind of a child.

 

[Jacksmyname]

I first saw The Alamo on the Sunday night movie when I was around 8. Although there are other things that I can appreciate now that I am older, one can't beat the excitement level for a film like that in the mind of a child.

Agreed Joe, but certain things in films are much more appreciated, I think, when we get older. How a film is photographed, how music might be used to enhance a scene, etc. We may sense it when we're kids, but I think we really appreciate those things more when we get older. BTW, I first saw The Alamo in a theater when it was first released. While I loved it when I first saw it, I've come to appreciate much more as an adult. It may possibly be the least accurate version historically, it's the most entertaining version I've ever seen. I never tire of seeing it. Just one of those movies that grabbed me when I was a kid, and hasn't let go since.

 

[Christian T Lee]

I envy you, Christian. Seeing a great movie for the first time is a treat, probably moreso as an adult rathe
r than a kid. And to be able to score the LD of The Alamo like you did is way cool!

Jacksmyname, thank you for your response. Now after a few days I have fully been able to digest The Alamo and I can honestly say I thoroughly enjoyed it, enjoyed it immensely in fact.

Yes it is wonderful to discover a film at my age that can take me away as films did when I was but wee.
But I guess that is the beauty of film and being a film lover, you get it or you don’t.

I remember being quite young and not understanding why my Dad was not completely beside himself when Rocky defeated his latest opponent or when Kirk defeated Khan’ Wrath, I asked him once after seeing The Empires Strikes Back about it and he said as you get older you lose that excitement.

Well Dad, I am very happy to prove you wrong, (well wrong about film, but Dad still seems to be right about everything else ) as I still feel a visceral thrill when a movie connects with me.

Loved the Alamo and completely throw my support behind a proper Blu Ray Release.

Thanks again, now I am off to watch Rocky run up those steps again and feel the way I did when I was 6.

Enjoy the weekend everyone!
Christian

 

[Dee Zee]

How about a road show or premiere version with CGI replacing the damaged scenes? Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[David_B_K]

How about a road show or premiere version with CGI replacing the damaged scenes? Just trying to think outside the box.

The whole point is that The Alamo was filmed on location with real humans recreating the battle.

 

[sonomatom1]

Dee Zee: I don't think there is the remotest interest in such an idea. I wish I had the ability to transfer the LD to DVD. To hell with blu-ray, I just want to see the complete film - as Wayne intended it to be seen! I have never watched; nor will I ever watch, the compromised version (I was fortunate enough (and old enough...) to see the film in a theatre iback in 1960, and I owned the LD back in the day - I knew I just have kept them!.

I can't image that transferring one digital media to another digital media would cause much, if any, degradation, to the quality of the film as issued on LD. And how expensive could it be to transfer, package, and market a limited edition of the film on DVD? Let's face it, there isn't a huge market for the film, but big enough, I'm certain, to justify the investment.

Come on, guys, unless another viable print is found (and how likely is that?), there will be no restoration or repair. All we have are the extant VHS (badly compromised) and LD versions.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Dee Zee: I don't think there is the remotest interest in such an idea. I wish I had the ability to transfer the LD to DVD. To hell with blu-ray, I just want to see the complete film - as Wayne intended it to be seen! I have never watched; nor will I ever watch, the compromised version.

I can't image that transferring one digital media to another digital media would cause much, if any, degradation, to the quality of the film as issued on LD. And how expensive could it be to transfer, package, and market a limited edition of the film on DVD? Let's face it, there isn't a huge market for the film, but big enough, I'm certain, to justify the investment.

Come on, guys, unless another viable print is found (and how likely is that?), there will be no restoration or repair. All we have are the extant VHS (badly compromised) and LD versions.

Digital to digital would have no quality loss, unfortunately laserdisc is analog, i have sent you a PM with some interesting info for you regarding your wish for the uncut version of The Alamo on a DVD sourced from the original laserdisc release.