"The Alamo"s Status? (1 Viewer)

[PMF]

When work was completed, using the near-pristine 70mm print for a video release, it was cut into thousand foot rolls, dumped into cartons, and shipped to print inventory, as opposed being returned to the Academy, which had accepted it for safe-keeping.

When I finally located the print c. 2000, in a non-climate controlled warehouse, and we pulled it out of the cartons...


View attachment 32472

Painful to read; painful to look at.
Future situations like this demand a two-person team in a vehicle or truck.
No shipping services of any kind; just a non-stop ride with two known and highly trusted people behind the wheel.

 

[Robert Harris]

Painful to read; painful to look at.
Future situations like this demand a two-person team in a vehicle or truck.
No shipping services of any kind; just a non-stop ride with two known and highly trusted people behind the wheel.

It's not the people involved, it's a management decision. There were apparently no controls, and those making the decisions knew nothing about film elements. A print is a print is a print, even if it's the only extant element surviving.

And it gets treated as an old print.

 

[PMF]

Robert, I'm lost.
How is it a management decision to damage a film?

 

[Robert Harris]

Robert, I'm lost.
How is it a management decision to damage a film?

No one decides to damage film. The problem was that no one knew how to handle film, or to differentiate relative importance.

 

[PMF]

Understood.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

The digital age has made preservation easier in that storage is cheap, convenient and fast to do. Instead of shelves of analogue tapes or videotapes attracting Management interest for disposal to gain space, engineers can easily create safety backups at negligable cost. One 2TB drive can hold solid months of sound.

It only works for films after they've been transferred to digital but for sound it's a miracle!! In the analogue past I saw sound Masters destroyed by ignorant managements without even mentioning it to the engineers who had respect for the material.

 

[B-ROLL]

The digital age has made preservation easier in that storage is cheap, convenient and fast to do. Instead of shelves of analogue tapes or videotapes attracting Management interest for disposal to gain space, engineers can easily create safety backups at negligable cost. One 2TB drive can hold solid months of sound.

It only works for films after they've been transferred to digital but for sound it's a miracle!! In the analogue past I saw sound Masters destroyed by ignorant managements without even mentioning it to the engineers who had respect for the material.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/while-we-wait-for-a-few-words-about-™-lawrence-of-arabia-in-blu-ray.301996/page-236#post-4066919

"Archival data has a shelf life of eternity or seven years -- whichever comes first." -RAH

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Robert, I'm lost.
How is it a management decision to damage a film?

The problem here is the word "damage". It's the rare situation that the powers that be set out to actively damage a film (Harvey Weinstein notwithstanding). The appropriate term is "neglect", which is clearly what has happened with The Alamo.

 

[Tom St Jones]

The problem here is the word "damage". It's the rare situation that the powers that be set out to actively damage a film (Harvey Weinstein notwithstanding). The appropriate term is "neglect", which is clearly what has happened with The Alamo.

Referring to the present powers-that-be, MGM has clearly decided to 'neglect' the film. Not quite the same thing as intentionally damaging a film - but almost. If this were a human being or an endangered-species animal (say, a panda) we were talking about, it would be a MAJOR public controversy - as it would be basically deciding not to save someone/ thing who clearly could have been saved. Alas, it's not a person or animal, it's an inanimate property. But it IS an endangered species, 'cause it's the ONLY COPY LEFT of the 70MM Rdshow version of John Wayne's "The Alamo". I'm still not sure MGM fully understands the importance of this item they've decided-not to save..

 

[Robert Harris]

Referring to the present powers-that-be, MGM has clearly decided to 'neglect' the film. Not quite the same thing as intentionally damaging a film - but almost. If this were a human being or an endangered-species animal (say, a panda) we were talking about, it would be a MAJOR public controversy - as it would be basically deciding not to save someone/ thing who clearly could have been saved. Alas, it's not a person or animal, it's an inanimate property. But it IS an endangered species, 'cause it's the ONLY COPY LEFT of the 70MM Rdshow version of John Wayne's "The Alamo". I'm still not sure MGM fully understands the importance of this item they've decided-not to save..

Once again, allow me to make a correction.

We are not discussing the roadshow of The Alamo, but rather the cut roadshow, which will no longer survive in large format.

The long roadshow is already gone in any presentable state, only exists as a window boxed 480i video, and can only be represented in any higher resolution, as were the trims in Mad World.

End of story.

 

[Tom St Jones]

Once again, allow me to make a correction.

We are not discussing the roadshow of The Alamo, but rather the cut roadshow, which will no longer survive in large format.

The long roadshow is already gone in any presentable state, only exists as a window boxed 480i video, and can only be represented in any higher resolution, as were the trims in Mad World.

End of story.

My bad. I do aim to be technically accurate (infact, my OCD demands it ) but, ofcourse, can't always get it right.. Regardless, I understand the real emphasis is on "70mm": "The Alamo" in L-A-R-G-E format, as it was filmed, as it was meant to be seen..that's what we're really losing...

 

[Richard Gallagher]

The TCM online guide is showing a running time of 203 minutes for The Alamo. However, the DirecTV guide is not showing it as real HD.

It will be preceded by Cheyenne Autumn, which is listed as being in HD. I wonder if Cheyenne Autumn might be coming on Blu-ray from the Warner Archive.

 

[OliverK]

I think that sometimes there is a misconception that work should or can be done mostly or entirely from a faded 70mm print.

This is now possible as a last resort and to save costs but examples are very rare and I am still waiting for my copy of Savage Pampas to see how it turned out for that particular movie, so far the captures I have seen look promising. It should also be noted that the Savage Pampas print that was scanned in 4k was faded but otherwise in much better shape than the roadshow print of The Alamo:

http://in70mm.com/news/2013/fortress/index.htm
http://in70mm.com/news/2015/pampas/index.htm

The preferred and correct way is to work from the 65mm camera negative or from a specially created IP (Fox likes to do that) and to produce both digital and photochemical protection elements to preserve a movie for the foreseeable future. Therefore the main focus for The Alamo should be on the negative / OCN and not primarily on that roadshow print even though to many the roadshow seems to be some kind of holy grail.

In the case of Savage Pampas the negative has been lost by the way which obviously justifies scanning the print.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

The film can still be saved in a more than adequate to allow an audience to understand what it once was.

All that's necessary is for MGM execs to put on their big boy pants, lose the ego, and admit that they have a problem.

 

[RolandL]

The TCM online guide is showing a running time of 203 minutes for The Alamo. However, the DirecTV guide is not showing it as real HD....

Comcast has it as HD (all titles are listed as HD for TCMHD). But I'm guessing it will look the same as the laser disc, maybe a bit better.

 

[Richard Gallagher]

Comcast has it as HD (all titles are listed as HD for TCMHD). But I'm guessing it will look the same as the laser disc, maybe a bit better.
View attachment 32493

DirecTV doesn't do that for TCMHD. If it doesn't say HD, it probably isn't. Anyway, we'll know in a few days what it is.

 

[RolandL]

Reed took some pictures of his LD roadshow projected on a 120 inch screen (see post 1644). One of them below.

John has a video sample of the Hawaii roadshow found here. Screen shot below:

They are both 425i. The Alamo of course is the better transfer. I would think the showing on TCMHD of the roadshow should look good. Not 1080p HD good but a lot better than the TT HAWAII roadshow blu-ray.

 

[PMF]

Reed took some pictures of his LD roadshow projected on a 120 inch screen (see post 1644). One of them below.

John has a video sample of the Hawaii roadshow found here. Screen shot below:
View attachment 32509

They are both 425i. The Alamo of course is the better transfer. I would think the showing on TCMHD of the roadshow should look good. Not 1080p HD good but a lot better than the TT HAWAII roadshow blu-ray.

Thanks for the torture.

 

[davidmatychuk]

Gary Barber! I'll crack this bottle of Glenlivet and share it with you if you do the right thing by "The Alamo"!

It's worth a try, right?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

If he doesn't do the right thing, I'd be happy to share it with you!