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Dick

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Many people think the theatrical cut is the better film.

I am one of them. The theatrical is, imo, already too long and jingoistic and full of patriotic platitudes. There are swatches of it I like a lot, but probably at least a half hour I could do without. The longer version is simply more of the latter.
 

Mark McSherry

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Here are two scans from the Insert included with the three laserdiscs in the "Roadshow" Alamo Boxset.

"Bold Chapter Markers are restored scenes or contain significant restored footage."

scan0012.jpg



scan0014.jpg
 

Robert Harris

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Here are two scans from the Insert included with the three laserdiscs in the "Roadshow" Alamo Boxset.

"Bold Chapter Markers are restored scenes or contain significant restored footage."

View attachment 93847


View attachment 93848
It’s interesting seeing those “restoration” credits. I supplied the continuities. Poor telecine. Not the entire, correct roadshow.

There is no restoration.
 
Last edited:

John Skoda

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Very small thing, but it annoyed me that they didn't use the 70mm main titles sequence on the laserdisc, which would have contained the Todd-AO credit (it's not on 35mm prints). I think THE ALAMO's is the only Todd-AO credit left I've never seen.

Oh, except PORGY AND BESS, which I've never seen at all.
 

Robert Harris

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Very small thing, but it annoyed me that they didn't use the 70mm main titles sequence on the laserdisc, which would have contained the Todd-AO credit (it's not on 35mm prints). I think THE ALAMO's is the only Todd-AO credit left I've never seen.

Oh, except PORGY AND BESS, which I've never seen at all.
Keep in mind, this was done in the dark ages. The 65mm neg used the Todd-AO MT sequence. 35mm matrices used a different 65mm variant.
 

LouA

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Since it’s unlikely this will ever be released in the US, I’ll be ordering this set.
 

Thomas T

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Never say never. Criterion would be the perfect company to tackle a film such as this.
It's highly unlikely since it's against Criterion's standards to release films not in their original versions and in spite of the enthusiasm of many HTF members, it's not an "artistically" admired film that fits in with their mission:

"The Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements. No matter the medium—from laserdisc to DVD and Blu-ray to streaming—Criterion has maintained its pioneering commitment to presenting each film as its maker would want it seen, in state-of-the-art restorations with special features designed to encourage repeated watching and deepen the viewer’s appreciation of the art of film."

I certainly don't want to argue whether The Alamo constitutes an important film (outside of John Wayne completists, best picture Oscar nominee collectors or history buffs) and yes, I don't know how films like Armageddon and Fiend Without A Face fit in with Criterion's declaration. ;)
 

darkrock17

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It's highly unlikely since it's against Criterion's standards to release films not in their original versions and in spite of the enthusiasm of many HTF members, it's not an "artistically" admired film that fits in with their mission:

See It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World and then come back and talk to me
 

Thomas T

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See It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World and then come back and talk to me

Touche but It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World is a film comedy classic with some of the world's greatest comic actors, not a (for the most part) historically inaccurate bloated epic which wasn't critically admired in the first place.

That being said I do intend to purchase the German Alamo import as I have more John Wayne movies in my collection than any other actor.
 

darkrock17

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Touche but It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World is a film comedy classic with some of the world's greatest comic actors, not a (for the most part) historically inaccurate bloated epic which wasn't critically admired in the first place.

AwardCategoryNominee(s)Result
Academy Awards[33]Best Motion PictureJohn WayneNominated
Best Supporting ActorChill WillsNominated
Best Cinematography – ColorWilliam H. ClothierNominated
Best Film EditingStuart GilmoreNominated
Best Music Score of a Dramatic or Comedy PictureDimitri TiomkinNominated
Best Original Song"The Green Leaves of Summer" – Dimitri Tiomkin and Paul Francis WebsterNominated
Best SoundGordon E. Sawyer and Fred HynesWon
Golden Globe AwardsBest Original Score – Motion PictureDimitri TiomkinWon
International Film Music Critics AwardsBest Archival Release of an Existing ScoreDimitri Tiomkin, Nic Raine, James Fitzpatrick, Luc Van De Ven, Frank K. DeWald and Ginko DigiNominated
Laurel AwardsTop Action DramaThe AlamoWon
Top Action PerformanceJohn WayneWon
Top Male Supporting PerformanceChill WillsNominated
Top Musical ScoreDimitri TiomkinWon
National Board of Review AwardsTop 10 FilmsThe AlamoWon
Western Heritage AwardsTheatrical Motion PictureJames Edward Grant, Laurence Harvey, Richard Widmark and John WayneWon
 

Thomas T

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AwardCategoryNominee(s)Result
Academy Awards[33]Best Motion PictureJohn WayneNominated
Best Supporting ActorChill WillsNominated
Best Cinematography – ColorWilliam H. ClothierNominated
Best Film EditingStuart GilmoreNominated
Best Music Score of a Dramatic or Comedy PictureDimitri TiomkinNominated
Best Original Song"The Green Leaves of Summer" – Dimitri Tiomkin and Paul Francis WebsterNominated
Best SoundGordon E. Sawyer and Fred HynesWon
Golden Globe AwardsBest Original Score – Motion PictureDimitri TiomkinWon
International Film Music Critics AwardsBest Archival Release of an Existing ScoreDimitri Tiomkin, Nic Raine, James Fitzpatrick, Luc Van De Ven, Frank K. DeWald and Ginko DigiNominated
Laurel AwardsTop Action DramaThe AlamoWon
Top Action PerformanceJohn WayneWon
Top Male Supporting PerformanceChill WillsNominated
Top Musical ScoreDimitri TiomkinWon
National Board of Review AwardsTop 10 FilmsThe AlamoWon
Western Heritage AwardsTheatrical Motion PictureJames Edward Grant, Laurence Harvey, Richard Widmark and John WayneWon
You're seriously bringing up Oscars and Golden Globes as an example of critically admired films? I'll not give examples of some of the atrocities that have won Oscars and Golden Globes but by critically admired I was thinking more along the lines of:

New York Times: "Wayne has unfortunately let his desire to make a "big" picture burden him with dialogue. HIs talk scenes are long and usually dull".
Time Magazine: "It's as flat as Texas".
Boston Globe: "factually spurious film".
Jonathan Rosenbaum: "Interminable".
Variety: "There's an absence of emotional feeling".
Time Out: "An elephantine, historically inaccurate stridently patriotic tribute".
 

DVBRD

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Very small thing, but it annoyed me that they didn't use the 70mm main titles sequence on the laserdisc, which would have contained the Todd-AO credit (it's not on 35mm prints). I think THE ALAMO's is the only Todd-AO credit left I've never seen.

Oh, except PORGY AND BESS, which I've never seen at all.
Apparently, the LD liner notes said the extended cut used an existing master of the shorter cut done in 1990 and inserted the roadshow footage in there. Maybe MGM didn't see the expense in adding the Todd-AO credit back in?
 

DVBRD

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Andy
You're seriously bringing up Oscars and Golden Globes as an example of critically admired films? I'll not give examples of some of the atrocities that have won Oscars and Golden Globes but by critically admired I was thinking more along the lines of:

New York Times: "Wayne has unfortunately let his desire to make a "big" picture burden him with dialogue. HIs talk scenes are long and usually dull".
Time Magazine: "It's as flat as Texas".
Boston Globe: "factually spurious film".
Jonathan Rosenbaum: "Interminable".
Variety: "There's an absence of emotional feeling".
Time Out: "An elephantine, historically inaccurate stridently patriotic tribute".
Frankly, I was quite surprised that Spartacus didn't get a Best Picture nod that year.
 

DVBRD

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Andy
It's highly unlikely since it's against Criterion's standards to release films not in their original versions and in spite of the enthusiasm of many HTF members, it's not an "artistically" admired film that fits in with their mission:

"The Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements. No matter the medium—from laserdisc to DVD and Blu-ray to streaming—Criterion has maintained its pioneering commitment to presenting each film as its maker would want it seen, in state-of-the-art restorations with special features designed to encourage repeated watching and deepen the viewer’s appreciation of the art of film."

I certainly don't want to argue whether The Alamo constitutes an important film (outside of John Wayne completists, best picture Oscar nominee collectors or history buffs) and yes, I don't know how films like Armageddon and Fiend Without A Face fit in with Criterion's declaration. ;)
And even if Criterion does pick it up, I doubt they would be able to do a restored version of the roadshow. Even the Criterion roadshow of "Mad Mad World" was a reconstruction that took the best of the existing elements and did what they could. Is it possible to do this for "The Alamo?" Who knows?
 

John Skoda

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Messages
271
Apparently, the LD liner notes said the extended cut used an existing master of the shorter cut done in 1990 and inserted the roadshow footage in there. Maybe MGM didn't see the expense in adding the Todd-AO credit back in?
Yes, and I don't really blame them, it's a very small thing. But I always love to compare the 35/70mm credit sequences for Todd-AO films to see how they handle doing two sets of credits. My favorite is DOCTOR DOLITTLE, where they put "Color by DeLuxe" on 35mm prints where "Produced in Todd-AO" is in 70mm, even though they already gave the "Color by DeLuxe" credit a couple of titles before!
 

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