Test your 5.1/6.1 analogue input (re bass doubling)!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Hartwig Hanser, Aug 13, 2002.

  1. Hartwig Hanser

    Hartwig Hanser Second Unit

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    You may have heard that the new Rotel RSP 1066 prepro adds all frequencies below 100 Hz from the main channels to the .1 channel, thereby doubling the bass on full range speakers, since the 6.1 input has no bass managment. The Oulaw 950 seems to have the same problem if the bass management is turned off. Both use Chrystal chips which are very common I believe.
    Therefore I suspect that a lot other prepros and receivers have the same bass doubling issue on the multi channel analogue inputs. I would like to ask all of you that have a DVD-audio- or SACD-Multichannel-Player, to check it on their system. One way to check is to use a disc that is recorded 5.0 and listen if the sub produces sound. Or listen to a CD via the multi input and listen if the sub produces sound. If yes, you have the same bug. I would be very interested in your results.

    Hartwig
     
  2. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    That's just it, I don't think the Cirrus/Crystal chips are all that common. Denon and Sony ES use Analog Device SHARCs. B&K and Anthem, use Motorola. Yamaha does their chips in-house.

    As far as I know, the Rotel and Outlaw are the only products that use the *newest* version of the Crystal/Cirrus chip. Be interesting if the Sherbourn/AT clones of the 950 have the problem or not.
     
  3. Hanwook_K

    Hanwook_K Stunt Coordinator

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    What's the original purpose behind sending 100hz from the main to the sub regardless of the main (large/small) settings?

    or is that just a design flaw?

    Most receivers do bass management in the digital domain - hence why I like to listen to stereo music with the sub off. The analog inputs of most receivers are never routed through the AD/DA section. But it sounds like there are an onset of preamps, and receiver that do bass management in the analog inputs. But I still don't understand why it automatically sends bass from the mains to the sub channels regardless of the settings?
     
  4. AustinKW

    AustinKW Stunt Coordinator

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    Han,

    Would you care to elaborate on this?

    Austin

     
  5. Hanwook_K

    Hanwook_K Stunt Coordinator

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    Austin,

    Voodoo. If I plug my CD player into my Reciever (yamaha 595 at the time). I set my yamaha for main as small and to send bass to my subwoofer. This will trigger the analog inputs of the CD player to be routed through a AD conversion and then it separates the bass and then does a DA conversion to the amp/speaker outputs. If I turn off the sub the analog CD inputs are routed directly to the amp/speaker outputs.

    There are very few receivers that do bass management purely in the analog domain.

    I don't like additional digital conversions regardless if they are 24bit/96khz or higher in my stereo music. I like it as pure as possible ... call it voodoo or simply I prefer the music that way.

    hk
     
  6. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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  7. AustinKW

    AustinKW Stunt Coordinator

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    HK,

    I understand what you're saying now. I'm not familiar with receivers other than Denon and the Denons handle this a bit differently than your Yamaha. In Denon's "Direct" mode, the analogs stay analog all the way through but a second takeoff of the analog signal IS A/D'd and BM'd to drive the sub. Most folks I know simply use the memorized channel settings to turn off the sub in this listening mode. Otherwise, you'll end up with double bass - full range to the mains + sub-80Hz to the subwoofer. Thanks for the info.

    Austin

     
  8. Hanwook_K

    Hanwook_K Stunt Coordinator

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    Makes sense ... again I say its voodoo because the AD/DA conversion is always higher than a CD DAC. But I like to keep the CD DAC characteristic in place as much as possible - hence why I call it voodoo. It might be psychological, but I prefered the sound when I plugged my CD player in the 5.1in vs. the CD inputs(possible because as kevin said it probably is AD/DAing). The music was slightly smoother.

    I'm pretty sure the 5.1 ins in the Yamaha is a direct analog connection, but not sure about the CD in.

    But I didn't know about the denons, Austin, that's a great feature/design!!! I'm starting to really like Denons.
     

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