Terminator: Dark Fate (2019) (1 Viewer)

[dpippel]

I love both equally. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. They make a great double-feature.

 

[Sam Favate]

Are you suggesting that T2 wasn't worth making? Because I disagree with that. T2 is one of the best sequels ever. It built on what was established in the first film and enriched it with further exploration that was absolutely worthwhile.
The third wasn't worth anything, and I haven't bothered to see anything beyond that, but Cameron didn't have any involvement in those.

Saw the first film in the theater in '84. Thought it was great. We thought maybe this guy Schwarzenegger might have a movie career. Bought it on VHS, DVD and Blu-ray.

Saw the second film a few times in the theater in '91. A lot of hype around it, but it lived up to it. In some ways, it surpassed the first film - in sophistication, storytelling, acting and certainly special effects. Bought it on VHS, DVD (nice metal slipcover - the kind of thing they never do anymore) and Blu-Ray.

Saw the third film in the theater in... was it 2003? Hard to remember. I was underwhelmed. Never saw it again. Never bought it on home video.

Saw a few episodes of the Sarah Conner Chronicles. Enjoyed it, but TV schedules being what they were, it became hard to follow. I gave up.

Never saw the fourth movie (the one with Christian Bale? Isn't that the one with the video of him yelling at someone on set? If a movie production is that bad that someone leaks that kind of thing, it can't have been a good experience. And wasn't this the one without Arnold?). Never saw the fifth movie (last summer? Year before?). I was curious, because it had a good cast and I like Emilia Clarke, but the bad reviews made the decision for me. No time to watch more disappointing movies in a franchise.

Now Cameron's back, producing anyway. We'll see. Reviews would have to be really good.

The Terminator movies are very similar to the Alien movies in this way: The first one was great, the second was also great. Everything else we could have done without. Neither have had a good film in three decades (33 years for Alien, 28 for Terminator).

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I love both equally. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. They make a great double-feature.

Agreed! I'm just at the point where I usually begin the double feature with T2, and then end the evening with a late night showing of the original film.

Saw a few episodes of the Sarah Conner Chronicles. Enjoyed it, but TV schedules being what they were, it became hard to follow. I gave up.

The show is available on Blu-ray, and I think it's worth revisiting and giving a second chance - outside of the two James Cameron movies, i think the show is the best work that anyone has done in the Terminator universe. The first few episodes are a little clunky, but once it gets into a groove, it's pretty great. I wish it hadn't been canceled.

Never saw the fourth movie (the one with Christian Bale

Yeah, that's the one with Christian Bale. It wasn't a video but rather a leaked audio recording of him screaming at the cinematographer. Bale's character has to spend most of the film in a heightened state of emotional desperation, and Bale's outburst (which he did apologize for) was apparently triggered by the cinematographer accidentally distracting him either during rehearsal or during a take.

But outside of that, I actually like the film. It doesn't entirely work, and it shows more potential than they were able to actually realize, but it was cool to see the franchise moving in a somewhat different direction. It's the only one of the films that isn't about time travel, and it was refreshing to see a different environment than we saw in the other films. I would have seen a sequel had it been successful enough to warrant one.

Never saw the fifth movie (last summer? Year before?). I was curious, because it had a good cast and I like Emilia Clarke, but the bad reviews made the decision for me.

That wasn't terrible either, but I was let down by some of the casting choices (Jai Courtney as Kyle Reese just doesn't work) and second and third act twists. I loved the first act and the whole concept: that after years of Skynet sending Terminators back in time, only to have the efforts fail when the resistance sends its own fighter back, Skynet decides to do something different, and the resistance compensates. But the version of Kyle that's sent back doesn't know this, so when he goes to stop the original Terminator in 1984, he arrives there to find that he's no longer needed, and that there's actually a different mission for him. That's a brilliant setup. Unfortunately, the new mission was pretty paint by numbers and the kind of plotting you could see on any average sci-fi show or film - it didn't feel unique enough to me. They wrote a check in the first act of the movie that the second and third acts couldn't cash. But I appreciated the effort.

 

[Bryan^H]

As for the attempted murder of Dyson, Sarah had just been through a life where she could count on no one to believe her and I'm sure the last thing on her mind would be sitting down and having a nice little chat with him, hoping she could convince him to "stop his research, pretty please". In her mind the quickest and surest way to do what needed to be done was to kill him.

Well it was the show and tell scene with the Terminator that convinced Dyson about the future, not being nearly executed. And I cannot buy Sarah Conner attempting to murder someone in cold blood.
That makes her no better than a Hunter-Killer(HK's).

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The last ten minutes of T3: Rise of the Machines may be my favorite of the whole franchise; it's too bad the rest of the movie doesn't live up to them.

Terminator: Salvation utterly wasted the opportunity that ending teed up.

The less said about Terminator Genisys, the better. Though I thought Emilia Clarke did way better than I might have expected with an incredibly thankless task.

 

[JimmyO]

Well it was the show and tell scene with the Terminator that convinced Dyson about the future, not being nearly executed. And I cannot buy Sarah Conner attempting to murder someone in cold blood.
That makes her no better than a Hunter-Killer(HK's).

It was. But it was Sarah almost killing him that got his attention. If she had just knocked on the door politely, on her own, unarmed, she would have been unsuccessful. Besides, the only reason that Sarah was not successful in killing Dyson is that she realised entirely on her own with Dyson on the ground and ready to die that she couldn't do it when face to face with him and his family.

She DID realize that what she was doing was wrong, and seemed to come to a point where she shocked even herself that she had pushed herself to that point.

How many HK's did you see that when prepared to murder someone, thought twice about it and backed down?

 

[Bryan^H]

It was. But it was Sarah almost killing him that got his attention. If she had just knocked on the door politely, on her own, unarmed, she would have been unsuccessful. Besides, the only reason that Sarah was not successful in killing Dyson is that she realised entirely on her own with Dyson on the ground and ready to die that she couldn't do it when face to face with him and his family.

She DID realize that what she was doing was wrong, and seemed to come to a point where she shocked even herself that she had pushed herself to that point.

How many HK's did you see that when prepared to murder someone, thought twice about it and backed down?

Ok, but her first bullet would have killed him had he not been stumped by a remote control car (If I am remembering that scene correctly).

 

[JimmyO]

Ok, but her first bullet would have killed him had he not been stumped by a remote control car (If I am remembering that scene correctly).

Yes, your memory is perfect on that. It was Dysons son that saved his life in that moment. I am guessing that for Sarah, she was looking at the back of his head, by himself, from a distance, in a dark room. It didn't become real for her until she had shot him once, she was right in his face and he was helpless and his family was there with him.

Brought her back to reality, I guess you could say. But yeah, his son did save him.

 

[Bryan^H]

How could she possibly "know full well" that she would be institutionalized for explaining her traumatic encounter? The way the movie explains it, she was accused of basically attempting to sabotage a factory when all along it was a cover-up since the terminator parts were recovered secretly and research was being done on them. I'm pretty sure this drove her into a mental state that explains her institutionalization, but I doubt very much that she knew full well that would happen.

Once incarcerated for simply telling the truth, her rage was driven further by knowing that her son was not safe and there was nothing she could do, so she took matters into her own hands. While not "reasonable" behaviour, I completely buy into her motivation given that no one believed her and there was real danger coming for John.

The scene I love the most in the original "Terminator" movie is Sarah Connor driving off toward the mountains as a storm is brewing. She knows the challenge, and the frightening future ahead of her. She is perfectly calm, and seemingly prepared for the task of raising John to be the leader of the resistance.

Jump to T2 and she is a mess. She saw how Kyle Reese was treated in the surveillance ("he's a loon") video telling his story about the future war in the first film. She acts in much the same manner, but even more aggressive toward those that don't believe her. How could this help her? Why did she tell the authorities anything about the future, and what was to come, And did she think people would actually believe her? Maybe her mental state was frayed as you say, but I still can't imagine her expecting others to believe her story.
The microchip, and mechanical arm that were recovered would obviously have been immediately "top secret" once examined, and the cover up would have been expected.

 

[JimmyO]

Jump to T2 and she is a mess.

A lot can and did happen between the time John Connor was conceived and the time we see him in T2. That's 11 years. There was nothing sudden about Sarah's mental decline.

Here's a bit of backgrounder on the events that took place between T1 and T2. It's not a long read but it helps to put Sarah's metamorphosis into some context. It certainly is not a sudden change from one movie to the other.

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-...-Terminator-and-the-beginning-of-Terminator-2

 

[Bryan^H]

A lot can and did happen between the time John Connor was conceived and the time we see him in T2. That's 11 years. There was nothing sudden about Sarah's mental decline.

Here's a bit of backgrounder on the events that took place between T1 and T2. It's not a long read but it helps to put Sarah's metamorphosis into some context. It certainly is not a sudden change from one movie to the other.

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-...-Terminator-and-the-beginning-of-Terminator-2

Good point. T2 is a fine film. It just isn't to my liking.

 

[Walter Kittel]

SInce we are posting Terminator franchise memories...

I've posted about this before, but one of my all time great theatrical experiences was catching a midnight showing of Terminator 2: Judgement Day when it premiered. Everyone in the audience was so pumped for this film, and the audience reactions to a film that completely delivered the goods was just a great time. Every one of my reactions was amplified by hundreds of people who seemingly responded in unison at the events portrayed on the screen.

I've enjoyed all of the Terminator franchise films (and the series) to varying degrees. Even the weaker efforts have still had enough going for them for me to derive some enjoyment. I was disappointed at the way the Sarah Connor Chronicles left the series hanging as I was enjoying the plot lines that the show was exploring in the future; but I guess that is television for you.

Salvation was a bit weak, but I remember really enjoying the incredibly aggressive sound mix of the film. Not a great reason to enjoy a film, but the audio got the job done. I do fondly recall that aspect of the feature.

Anyway, I am definitely on board for any future Terminator projects.

- Walter.

 

[Tommy R]

I remember really enjoying Salvation. I thought Bale made a more interesting John Connor than he did a Batman. I still like listening to his flip out every now and then. Apparently the DP in question was causing his distraction right in the middle of shooting an intense scene, and had already been doing the same thing before and had been warned. I hardly blame Bale for losing it. He actually seemed to be ready to let it go and get back to work early on it the audio clip, but it’s hard to hear what the DP kept saying to either him or McG that kept Bal going. I’m willing to bet that plenty of things like this happen and we just never hear about it. And from what I hear messing around during a take is a BIG naughty-naughty-no-no.

 

[Malcolm R]

My only memory of Salvation was that the volume was cranked way too high in the theater I was in. I had to make earplugs out of a napkin from the concession stand and I could feel the bass vibrating in my chest.

 

[dpippel]

New photos of all the main characters:

 

[Jeffrey D]

My 2 cents on which film is better (1 or 2)-

I like the first film a little more than Judgement Day. I think we can all agree that #2 is technically a better film (except the bad editing when the big rig tow truck falls into the cement canal, destroying its right front steering/suspension), but where the first film is superior in my opinion is the screenplay (better writing with more memorable lines of dialog), and there was a level of excitement and tension the first film delivered that Judgement Day didn’t quite match
(the shootout at Tech Noir followed by the car chase is one of my favorite segments in any film for its excitement level).

 

[JimmyO]

Arnold has a little Billy Bob Thorton going on in that photo.

 

[dpippel]

Director Tim Miller is in the editing booth, working on the first trailer:

https://twitter.com/Terminator/stat...der.com/terminator-dark-fate-trailer-release/

 

[Jake Lipson]

If Paramount wants to debut the trailer with one of their movies, their next release is Rocketman on May 31. After that, they don't have anything until a horror movie called Crawl on July 2. If they don't care about it being one of their movies, Godzilla or Dark Phoenix would probably work as action tentpoles targeting a similar audience. (John Wick would work too, but since that comes out this week, I kind of doubt it would be ready if he's still editing it now.)

This also raises an interesting question: is this film going to be able to be rated R, or is the studio going to stupidly insist on a PG-13 version again? The most recent two were PG-13, which didn't help them from underperforming. Hopefully this one gets to go R again. With Cameron involved (not to mention Miller having directed Deadpool), I would imagine they're going for the R, but I don't think that's been confirmed yet.

 

[dpippel]

I'd be very surprised if it ends up PG-13.