Terminator 2 HD DVD beats T2 Blu-Ray!? (1 Viewer)

[Shawn Perron]

I think most of the problem is that while converting 24fps sound to 25fps was common due to PAL, the concept of converting 25fps sound back to 24fps is not something that was given any thought until HD media. There will probably be a short period where they work the kinks out of the cenversion process.

I think thew concensus I have read is that while there may still be a slight problem with this batch of Studio Canal titles, if it exists at all, it is extremely minor.

 

[Jim_K]

ce qui ? You two are as clear as mud.

I wasn't asking how many discs this had, yes I know it contains the theatrical and extended cuts on 2 discs. So does your "no" imply this isn't bare-bones and that there are bonus features?

Again, genuine question here because exploited lists no bonus material:

Does this French version contain any bonus material? If so is it English language friendly?

As for whether or not this suffers from the pitch issue I guess I'll just have to trust the members here not to lead me astray.

 

[Douglas Monce]

As Cees said above....if the audio track were sped up to 25 fps it would almost instantly go out of sync with a 24P picture. So unless they have sped up the picture as well, there is no speed up of the audio track.

Doug

 

[Cees Alons]

Jim,

It doesn't (make the "average $27 Fox ... look like a bargain in comparison"), because you compare the average Fox to a 2-disc version.


Cees

 

[ScottJH]

French version is Studio Canal.
The only "extras" on the discs are a Studio Canal trailer and some A/V test patterns.

 

[Jim_K]

Thank you.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Cees or anyone else,

Not to beat a dead horse...

If it is not possible to have PAL speed-up on this title at 24Hz,
have any HD DVD's had PAL "speed-up" problems?
If not, is it just in some people's head?

Thanks so much!

 

[Jeff Adkins]

The initial batch of Studio Canal titles had an audio pitch problem which is different from speedup, but sounds the same. While I can't speak for all of the newer titles, I did manage to borrow a copy of The Graduate today and it definitely has the pitch problem. I noticed it immediately during "The Sounds Of Silence". I then got out the standard DVD and A/B'd them back and forth. Murray Hamilton's voice in particular has that "helium" sound to it. Having said that, many people don't notice it. But if you've heard "The Sounds Of Silence" as many times as I have, you'll notice something sounds wrong almost immediately. It's such as a shame because the video transfer is superb. It's without a doubt the best I've ever seen it look.

 

[ppltd]

Let me clarify. The French version is certainly also a Studio Canal release. And it has two disks, which are currently sitting in my hand. What I said was in reference to the EU single disk upcoming release.

 

[Douglas Monce]

My first thought was it had something to do with the difference between a 50 cycle electrical system vs. a 60 cycle system. But I don't know why some disc would seem to produce this problem and not others. What ever the cause it shouldn't have anything to do with Pal or NTSC as HD isn't either of these formats, and doesn't run at those frame rates.

 

[Shawn Perron]

You are misunderstanding what I mean. Rather then go back to the 24fps master they converted to 25fps for PAL DVD, they seem to be porting that same 25fps back to 24fps. From what I understand most PAL DVDs sound tracks were time compressed due to a shorter running length. If you use the 24fps sound track without time compressing it for 25fps video, then you will quickly lose sync with the movie. From what I've read, most of these sound tracks were time compressed without using some form of pitch correction to prevent a higher pitched end result. If these higher pitched sound tracks are then expanded back to 24fps with software that pitch corrects, the sound tracks will then have the sound of a "PAL sped up" movie while being the same length as the original sound track.

I'd be willing to bet that Studio Canal is using a PAL corrected source to create thier HD-DVDs rather then going back to the original 24fps master they would have used to create the 25fps master for PAL. This would make sense if Studio canal did not want to permanently maintain 2 copies of a master for every movie they own the rights to.

 

[Cees Alons]

Shawn,

This starts to sound a little bit like the infamous maintenance chip in elevators, that would bring them to a halt on Jan, 1st, 2000 (the maintenance chips didn't appear to exist at all).

IF they decided to use a sped-up 25 fps audiotrack, created by playing it faster without pitch correction, then why wouldn't they just play it slower to get the correct pitch again, but instead add pitch "correction" to make it sound like the sped-up track?

Of course it's "thinkable" and "possible" (just like the logic of the elevator maintenance chip) but it's actually rather improbable, isn't it?


Cees

 

[Shawn Perron]

If you think about it, the proper behavior for any software that time compresses or time expands would be to automatically pitch correct. Unless you are intentionally trying to get a high pitch or low pitched sound that differs from the original, why would you want pitch correction disabled? If the original master has a PAL time compressed sound track, but it is improperly pitched, what happens if the software they are using to time expand it has pitch correction on by default? The result would be the first wave of Studio Canal discs. Sound tracks that are the correct length, but slightly higher pitched then they should be. This would be about the only scenario that would make sense. It's that whole Oscam's Razor thing. It's the simplest answer, so is most likely the correct one. Unless someone can come up with another answer that starts with a correctly pitched sound track and ends with a soundtrack that is somehow pitch adjusted prior to being mastered for HD-DVD.

High pitched 25fps PAL sound track -> software time expands for 24fps with pitch correction enabled -> High pitched 24fps sound track

High pitched 25fps PAL sound track -> software time expands without pitch correction -> Original correctly pitched 24fps sound track

The whole original problem could be as simple as unclicking one box in the software configuration to disable pitch correction. This makes far more sense then any other scenario I've heard mentioned.

 

[Cees Alons]

Shawn,

More sense than assuming no-one made a mistake whatsoever?
(The French aren't exactly technical fools, you know. )

Don't forget that this "whole original problem", as you called it, isn't present on this release - unless your copy is the exception.

Did your copy have a pitch problem? How did you listen to the DTS HD Master tracks?


Cees

 

[Shawn Perron]

When did I ever say this release had a problem? :p

Just commenting on the previous releases with the problem.

 

[ScottJH]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9&page=1&pp=30
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=28389
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1&page=1&pp=30
The consensus I have read is just the opposite. There was one person(Honey1) who got the disc 3 weeks early who thought there was a pitch problem. By the time other people received it, Honey1's opinion had changed to a attitude of not sure, wait for other people's opinion. Close to 100% of the people who actually own the T2 HD DVD don't hear a pitch issue.

 

[Cees Alons]

You mean you were ... thread crapping?



Cees

 

[Shawn Perron]

I was hardly thread crapping, this is your post immediately above the 1st post I made:


Apparently responding to something you brought up is thread crapping now?

Anyway, this is a problem that can just as easily hit Blu-Ray as HD-DVD in Europe. I don't doubt that Studio Canal has it figured out now, but you certainly can't automatically discount those that still think they hear a problem. A majority of people never felt there was a problem with the first batch of titles until it was proven with recorded audio clips. This is where the early adopters beta test these formats for those that come later.

 

[Cees Alons]

We were still talking about the T2 version under discussion here. I replied to a post of Dave Mack then.

But, please, let it rest. It's all cleared up now.


Cees

 

[Jeff Adkins]

That's great news on T2. I only brought up The Graduate because I had hoped they had fixed this problem by now and it's part of the recent wave of SC releases. The good news is that 90% of people will probably never even notice. I never notice it on PAL discs that are in another language (Jean De Florette for example), but with actors or music that I'm familiar with I notice it immediately.

I know Amir was talking to SC about getting this resolved. Glad to hear that at least T2 is fine.