TEMPEST IN A TEAPOT OR TITUS (1 Viewer)

[haineshisway]

No, I would venture to say that most, if not all, are just like me: they buy them because they want that film on blu-ray. We love the particular film; collectability has nothing to do with it.

Although no one who's arguing will agree, you have hit the nail on the proverbial head.

And Jari K, if you read the posts I've made in this thread, you'll understand exactly why people are saying five dollars. We see it every day with other labels. A great title is released at your price of twenty dollars and the posts begin (not here) - I'll wait for it to be fifteen. When it's fifteen those same folks say I'll wait for it to be ten and when it's ten then they wait till it's five and when it's five they still don't buy it. I don't really know what's hard to understand about this - this is the mindset of most people who buy Blu-rays and post on the various boards. You can't say it isn't because everyone here could point you to hundreds of posts that would prove you wrong. That's the way it is, that I understand. It's a game - cheap rules the day - coupons, deals, finding a way to combine this with that so you get something for nothing - that's what it's about for many of these people. I read it every day. Even with Twilight Time, I hate to tell you. Yes, they buy one or two extra copies (these are the same people who criticize Twilight Time repeatedly), sell them on eBay and then BRAG how they took advantage and got their own copy for free. That's all it's about. Not about the movie at all.

 

[bluelaughaminute]

If you pop onto Roobarbs you'll see they are still so clueless about it .
As someone else said , those who praise TT buy the discs - many of those who whinge about TT never buy a single TT title and claim they never will ( Hi Alyd) yet they write post after post after post every month when the new titles are announced just to say they won't buy them and will wait for a cheaper international release .
That's fair enough - but every month !!
That TT thread clearly states the views of people like Alyd yet he ( and others) still feel the need to remind us every time a new title comes out that they're not interested.
Are there movie threads and tv threads that these people also pollute by going on there to say they don't like it not once but twenty times .
Surely if you don't like something you skip past the thread so if you ever intend to buy from TT why read the thread let alone post in it ?
TT titles are a bit expensive for my liking but they've released several films I wanted on Bluray so I bought them but they've also released quite a few I would have bought at half the price but I don't post every month like the whingers to say its too expensive .
I'm more than happy that the TT model seems to be allowing certain films onto the market that would otherwise not have made it.

One question is why a title like Oliver gets licenced to TT in the larger US market yet gets released in Europe . Surely Sony would have made more from releasing it in the US themselves .
I do wonder if there is a certain amount of dealing whereby TT agree to take certain lesser titles as long as the deal includes a handful of surefire winners aswell - but that's just me speculating .

I've never had any customs charges in the UK for any TT titles.

Haines - how do you know the Ebay "scalpers" are the ones who whinge about TT? Why would it not be the ones who praise TT ?

Bgart- you didn't answer my query about the cost of the 3D movies .

 

[Mark Cappelletty]

Although no one who's arguing will agree, you have hit the nail on the proverbial head.

And Jari K, if you read the posts I've made in this thread, you'll understand exactly why people are saying five dollars. We see it every day with other labels. A great title is released at your price of twenty dollars and the posts begin (not here) - I'll wait for it to be fifteen. When it's fifteen those same folks say I'll wait for it to be ten and when it's ten then they wait till it's five and when it's five they still don't buy it. I don't really know what's hard to understand about this - this is the mindset of most people who buy Blu-rays and post on the various boards. You can't say it isn't because everyone here could point you to hundreds of posts that would prove you wrong. That's the way it is, that I understand. It's a game - cheap rules the day - coupons, deals, finding a way to combine this with that so you get something for nothing - that's what it's about for many of these people. I read it every day. Even with Twilight Time, I hate to tell you. Yes, they buy one or two extra copies (these are the same people who criticize Twilight Time repeatedly), sell them on eBay and then BRAG how they took advantage and got their own copy for free. That's all it's about. Not about the movie at all.

I came into a second copy of ROYAL FLASH for free (long story, but not a review copy). I could have sold it at Amoeba (or, I suppose, eBay), but I passed it along to a pal of mine, a serious movie buff and blogger, basically because I knew he'd dig it. I've blind-bought a couple of movies from Twilight Time because I'd heard that they were great and, having read reviews, knew that the picture and sound quality was solid. I'll admit that the 3,000 limit has put the fear of God in me once or twice to get a title sooner rather than later, but if I know I'm not going to like the movie (I'm not a fan of the Savini NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD for instance), I'm not going to buy it just for collection or investment purposes. I'm overjoyed that I was able to pre-order the Michael Caine GET CARTER for less than ten bucks today. But if my only option was to get it through Twilight Time for three times that amount, I'd do it because I love the movie so much.

 

[haineshisway]

If you pop onto Roobarbs you'll see they are still so clueless about it .
As someone else said , those who praise TT buy the discs - many of those who whinge about TT never buy a single TT title and claim they never will ( Hi Alyd) yet they write post after post after post every month when the new titles are announced just to say they won't buy them and will wait for a cheaper international release .
That's fair enough - but every month !!
That TT thread clearly states the views of people like Alyd yet he ( and others) still feel the need to remind us every time a new title comes out that they're not interested.
Are there movie threads and tv threads that these people also pollute by going on there to say they don't like it not once but twenty times .
Surely if you don't like something you skip past the thread so if you ever intend to buy from TT why read the thread let alone post in it ?
TT titles are a bit expensive for my liking but they've released several films I wanted on Bluray so I bought them but they've also released quite a few I would have bought at half the price but I don't post every month like the whingers to say its too expensive .
I'm more than happy that the TT model seems to be allowing certain films onto the market that would otherwise not have made it.

One question is why a title like Oliver gets licenced to TT in the larger US market yet gets released in Europe . Surely Sony would have made more from releasing it in the US themselves .
I do wonder if there is a certain amount of dealing whereby TT agree to take certain lesser titles as long as the deal includes a handful of surefire winners aswell - but that's just me speculating .

I've never had any customs charges in the UK for any TT titles.

Haines - how do you know the Ebay "scalpers" are the ones who whinge about TT? Why would it not be the ones who praise TT ?

Bgart- you didn't answer my query about the cost of the 3D movies .

I know because they've said it time and again on another forum (not roobarbs - don't even know what that is and don't want to know). In fact, one of the biggest and nastiest of the complainers, who also happens to be a moderator, admitted that that was his game - everyone was rather surprised to hear it, and then he was rather gleeful about it all. And not just him - many others.

 

[ahollis]

I know because they've said it time and again on another forum (not roobarbs - don't even know what that is and don't want to know). In fact, one of the biggest and nastiest of the complainers, who also happens to be a moderator, admitted that that was his game - everyone was rather surprised to hear it, and then he was rather gleeful about it all. And not just him - many others.

And that is why this Forum is legitimate

 

[Persianimmortal]

It's nice to get a bargain. I mean all of use enjoy paying less for something we want, who doesn't? But the type of person referred to in this thread - the anti-Twilight Time crusader - confuses the desirability of getting a good deal now and then with the absolute necessity that all Blu-rays must be at or below their personal comfort level (which also happens to be very low, and yes $5-10 seems to be a common price point), despite the impact of such a price on the health of the catalog market. In order to achieve their mission, these anti-TT crusaders then insist on entering every TT thread and telling everyone precisely how bad a deal a TT disc is, because, as I quoted one muppet from that other forum earlier, "no movie is worth $30". They're hoping that if they chant this mantra often enough, they'll actually force TT, and any other company with the gall to price Blu-rays above their price point, to fall into line with their demands that all Blu-rays be priced cheaply.

 

[RobHam]

I know because they've said it time and again on another forum (not roobarbs - don't even know what that is and don't want to know). In fact, one of the biggest and nastiest of the complainers, who also happens to be a moderator, admitted that that was his game - everyone was rather surprised to hear it, and then he was rather gleeful about it all. And not just him - many others.

Bruce - maybe its my age and my brain is fuddled, but I seem to recall some sort of online blood-feud going on with yourself and Nick Redman many months ago.

What happened on the metaphorical road to Damascus that turned you into one of Twilight Times' biggest champions?

Not being critical, as what you've started with the "sneak peak" series fulfils a much needed function.

Curious about the turnaround though.

 

[haineshisway]

Bruce - maybe its my age and my brain is fuddled, but I seem to recall some sort of online blood-feud going on with yourself and Nick Redman many months ago.

What happened on the metaphorical road to Damascus that turned you into one of Twilight Times' biggest champions?

Not being critical, as what you've started with the "sneak peak" series fulfils a much needed function.

Curious about the turnaround though.

Sorry, your brain is indeed fuddled There has never been any online blood-feud going on, not online or anywhere else. Maybe you're thinking of someone else. I've known Nick since 1988, we were in business together at my label, Bay Cities, and he's one of my dearest and closest friends. No metaphorical roads, no Damascus and therefore no turnaround.

 

[ROclockCK]

Okay, the foothills dogsled finally arrived bearing TT's releases this month. Top of my originally scheduled list was Khartoum to be followed by Man in the Dark (2D), then a much-anticipated double bill of Zulu with Zulu Dawn (which I've never seen). But after all of the 'sturm und drang' over Titus*, I was compelled to bump it up in my queue...at least for.a quick preview at each chapter stop...just to see for myself what all the fuss is about.

So much for best laid plans...I never even got around to that chapter stop check. I just started watching Titus and within minutes got hooked all over again...saying goodbye to an unplanned two hours and 42 minutes of my afternoon while reconnecting with this still remarkable hybrid theatrical/cinematic stunt. And like many others (here and elsewhere), I am just as baffled by the utterly silly backlash which has greeted this Blu-ray release.

Admittedly, it wasn't a state of the art HD transfer, but nevertheless played pretty much as I remembered this film both theatrically and on DVD...all of its patiently staged artistry carried over, and then some...including the odd semi-saturated visual style Taymor chose for this particular work. Who knows whether today's state-of-the art scanning and workflow could have significantly improved it - maybe, probably - assuming the Indie company financing it still exists and the original elements remain in good shape. But what survives even in this legacy HD master, as presented by Twilight Time with a robust bitrate via 50GB authoring, was anything but a shuck. Titus still cooks...its semi-abstracted imagery still dazzling...and TT's disc has preserved all of its stark feral power just fine. Not talking pixel geometry here, just good cinema and pro delivery.

But wait a minute, with all this focus on the visual presentation, how about that sound! Few have even mentioned the audio on this disc, except in passing, but I thought its lossless DTS 5.1 mix was a knockout. Even if ISTs aren't your bag, the audio presentation of the feature itself was a virtual command performance. Yowser!

"Tempest in a Teapot or Titus" indeed. Bruce could have just as easily called this thread "Tempest in a TT-Pot", because that's what this one-note blather has really been all about...

* I should note that my previous history with this film was 2 viewings the week it opened in Toronto, followed by 1 1/2 viewings of the original 2-disc (bronze case) DVD when it hit video. I am by no stretch an expert on this film, just a fan, but am familiar enough with it both theatrically and on video to share my lay opinion.

 

[JohnMor]

I've known Nick since 1988, we were in business together at my label, Bay Cities, and he's one of my dearest and closest friends.

I forgot you two had Bay Cities! I have you guys (I assume) to thank for the Funny Lady soundtrack that contains the original, superior version of "Great Day." The Arista remaster replaced it with an alternate version that I loathe.

 

[bgart13]

Nigel - I did post a response.

 

[Jari K]

...as I quoted one muppet from that other forum earlier, "no movie is worth $30".

Most of these people are not "muppets" (or do you mean the The Muppet Show?) and I believe you're missing their point somewhat. At this point of the "life cycle" of home video releases, people have bought the DVD release of many films. They've seen many films on TV (in good quality and some in HD), perhaps used some streaming services etc. If you just want to see the FILM, there are options. If you want to see the film in HD, even then there are other options.

Getting the BD (AKA HD 1080p) release is great and of course most of the movie fans choose HD over SD in any day of the week - and twice on Monday. But when it comes to one film that literally cost $30+shipping (I mean there's no retail discount, etc) & often with very little extras, I fully understand that many people simply says "no". Further more, some of them doesn't want to jump to the "ooh, let's-get-this-film-before-it-goes-OOP-hurry" band wagon. They want to get the films in their own terms so to speak. This is not 2006-2007 anymore when BD arrived and this is certainly not the "good old times" when laserdisc and later DVD arrived.

I don't see that buying something makes a person less "muppet".

I'm sure that "limited to 3000" sells quite a few copies alone.

Of course. And it's part of strategy and essential part of the marketing. "Hurry!".

 

[JohnMor]

Most of these people are not "muppets" (or do you mean the The Muppet Show?) and I believe you're missing their point somewhat. At this point of the "life cycle" of home video releases, people have bought the DVD release of many films. They've seen many films on TV (in good quality and some in HD), perhaps used some streaming services etc. If you just want to see the FILM, there are options. If you want to see the film in HD, even then there are other options.

Then TT with their "limited editions" and "high" prices aren't keeping anyone from seeing these films, so what's the issue?

Getting the BD (AKA HD 1080p) release is great and of course most of the movie fans choose HD over SD in any day of the week - and twice on Monday. But when it comes to one film that literally cost $30+shipping (I mean there's no retail discount, etc) & often with very little extras, I fully understand that many people simply says "no". Further more, some of them doesn't want to jump to the "ooh, let's-get-this-film-before-it-goes-OOP-hurry" band wagon. They want to get the films in their own terms so to speak.

But, as you said above, the films are easy to see even in HD, right? And no one is forced to buy from TT if they don't want to. No one is "forced" to buy anything but on their own terms, as if that were ever an entitlement to begin with. But all the TT bashers (not the honest critics, but the bashers) don't seem to be able to just ignore TT and not buy their merchandise. No, they must continually (and sometimes continuously) post about WHY they don't like TT and won't support them. We get it and we understand. No one is going to make you support them or like them. No one ever has, and no one ever will. So I'm not sure what the constant criticism is meant to accomplish.

If people are angry that the studios aren't putting them out themselves, then they should direct their anger at the studios, not at TT. TT isn't forcing any studio to license out films any more than they are forcing people to buy from them.

 

[Jari K]

But, as you said above, the films are easy to see even in HD, right?

My point was that people now have plenty of options to see different films in a decent quality (many in HD). In today's world and economy, paying $30 for one film on a BD is not always the ideal way.

At the end of the day I can certainly live with TT (I don't support them, though), but if TT's business model is a broader indicator where the BD/physical disc business is going we should be worried. Very worried.

 

[Robin9]

My point was that people now have plenty of options to see different films in a decent quality (many in HD). In today's world and economy, paying $30 for one film on a BD is not always the ideal way.

At the end of the day I can certainly live with TT (I don't support them, though), but if TT's business model is a broader indicator where the BD/physical disc business is going we should be worried. Very worried.

I'm not worried.

Twilight Time's business model has allowed me to buy on exemplary BRDs fims which would never have been released by the copyright holders. I concentrate on the less well-known, less celebrated movies: films like Desiree, The Sound And The Fury, Beloved Infidel, films which didn't even get a release on DVD.

The idea that without Twilight Time these films would be released by Fox anyway is nonsense.

 

[David_B_K]

Posted by JohnMor:

If people are angry that the studios aren't putting them out themselves, then they should direct their anger at the studios, not at TT. TT isn't forcing any studio to license out films any more than they are forcing people to buy from them.

A money quote. TT are the good guys in that they were willing to step up and release films that would otherwise not get a release.

 

[Persianimmortal]

My point was that people now have plenty of options to see different films in a decent quality (many in HD). In today's world and economy, paying $30 for one film on a BD is not always the ideal way.

You're right, there are plenty of options, and these suit different budgets. If you don't think any movie is worth $30, then stick with the format where you can get it for less. I still don't see how consumers not wanting to pony up the dough for a niche release on a niche format means the company releasing it is in the wrong.

At the end of the day I can certainly live with TT (I don't support them, though), but if TT's business model is a broader indicator where the BD/physical disc business is going we should be worried. Very worried.

Yes, and that's been the point some of us have been trying to make. TT's existence is a direct result of studios not wanting to bother to pander to a market for a product that has been so devalued that many catalog releases are no longer viable. As I've said in several of the 4K threads, I predict that we simply won't see most back catalog titles released on 4K Blu-ray at all, ever.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

When I see Haines on other forums I don't often agree with his comments but this time I do. The constant whinging about Twilight Time on various forums has been getting tiresome for a long time . And the whingers try to hide behind various arguments but the bottom line is that they don't want to pay TT prices . Fair enough - don't. But shut the hell up about it . I believe TT are limited to 3000 copies per title by the studios. This means there's not enough to supply every retailer in the country which would lead to the usual discounting . The RRP of TT discs is about the same as every other company but TT discs don't get discounted.
One has to assume that rightly or wrongly the studios licence films to TT that they consider won't sell well enough for them so they let TT take the risks . So all the whingers ( especially the peasants on Roobarbs) why not complain to the Hollywood studios who are licencing films to other companies rather than do it themselves which often means a lack of bonus features.
It has to be said that a good number of films from TT would not be available on Bluray if it were not for the TT releases.
So do what you do with other titles - look at the price and if it's not worth $30 then don't buy it . I've only bought 6 TT titles . There were 2 others I was interested in but not enough to pay $30 for them . But instead of whinging about that I'm enjoying the hundreds of titles I've already got and buying lots of other titles very cheaply.
The bottom line is that each movie has a price you'll pay . There's very few brand new films I pay for as new releases - I wait for the discounts but catalogue titles are my main interest and if the price is right I'll buy on release day - if it's not I'll wait. So John Hodson , Alyd and other assorted losers - why not stop wasting your time slagging off TT and just enjoy the discs you do buy.
If TT release a film I want I'll buy it - these guys try not to just on the principle that they won't support TT.
But with the success TT are having in general I'm sure they can ignore the critics as the whingers really don't make any difference to them at all .

Arrow Video here in the UK recently did a couple of Limited editions for £12.99 each including a full set of extras, booklet etc. I can not see for the life off me why TT has to charge these ridiculously high prices for what after all are bear bones releases.
Your rather inflammatory remarks about very knowledgeable and respected members of the Forum you mention does nothing to bolster your opinion but merely goes with the territory from what I have observed with some supporters of TT. I am more than positive no one at TT would welcome such remarks.
Me I will purchase what I want when I want ( if I have the funds) and I am sure the Guys on Roobarbs will also, but they are entitled to voice their opinion the same as anyone else.

 

[cocophone]

I've just recently made my first purchase from TT. Crimes and Thunderbolt. I'm also planning on buying Used Cars when the preorder is available.

After reading posts about TT from many forums, I'm left wondering why people keep saying that if TT didn't release a specific title then nobody else would release the title on BD?

A money quote. TT are the good guys in that they were willing to step up and release films that would otherwise not get a release.

TT has competitors, so if TT didn't release a title on BD it is possible that another company would release the title on BD.

Also, I read the interview from the owners of TT. I'm a little concerned that TT could be viewed as a "hobby" for a couple of retired guys. Also, since TT's customers are a small niche group, a few subpar transfers could "sour" their customer base. Because the titles are only 3,000 units, the title could sell out before a review is done which discloses facts about the PQ, etc.

As a customer I would appreciate if TT had a webpage for each upcoming title where they discussed the PQ of the transfer, extra features, etc. before the preorder went live on SAE.

TT may do this on Facebook (I don't know) but Facebook is not a good substitute for a separate webpage devoted to information about a specific upcoming release.

 

[haineshisway]

I've just recently made my first purchase from TT. Crimes and Thunderbolt. I'm also planning on buying Used Cars when the preorder is available.

After reading posts about TT from many forums, I'm left wondering why people keep saying that if TT didn't release a specific title then nobody else would release the title on BD?

TT has competitors, so if TT didn't release a title on BD it is possible that another company would release the title on BD.

Also, I read the interview from the owners of TT. I'm a little concerned that TT could be viewed as a "hobby" for a couple of retired guys. Also, since TT's customers are a small niche group, a few subpar transfers could "sour" their customer base. Because the titles are only 3,000 units, the title could sell out before a review is done which discloses facts about the PQ, etc.

As a customer I would appreciate if TT had a webpage for each upcoming title where they discussed the PQ of the transfer, extra features, etc. before the preorder went live on SAE.

TT may do this on Facebook (I don't know) but Facebook is not a good substitute for a separate webpage devoted to information about a specific upcoming release.

You know, posts are fine - silly comments, not so much. Nick Redman is hardly a "retired" guy - he's one of the most unretired guys I know - a hobby? You think putting out four to six titles a month is a lark and a hobby for ANYONE? I just sit here and scratch me head.