Tempest DIY sub against commercial subs (1 Viewer)

[ClaudeL]

Just by curiousity, how do they compare against commercial subs in SPL firstly and secondly in sound quality:

-Low-Q Sealed Tempest
-Mid-Q Sealed Tempest
-SBB4 Vented Tempest
-EBS Vented Tempest

Why do I ask this question? Because Im about to sell my Tempest sub (box, not a sonotube) and I think that my SBB4 damped (to reduce a bit the mid-bass boost) Tempest is quite big for the average Joe. So I thought about making a sealed mid-Q enclosure (130L) so it will be smaller and maybe it will be more easy to sell. So for the average Joe who dont know the Tempest, its why I would like to know how it compares so I will not overprice it

 

[ClaudeL]

Forgot to add... with a 300W amp for all these boxes.(Adire DT300).

 

[Arthur_King]

You want to sell your SBB4 Tempest box?

Grab your prospective buyer and demonstrate it to him in your HT. DARE him to find something in the same pricerange (even if you double your materials cost).

Deposit Money.

Its that simple.

Daffy Arthur King

 

[ClaudeL]

But I wonder if many people will be interested in a sub that huge! We must acknowledge it, it is bigger than most average sized commercial sub. So if I make another sealed enclosure, I know that I will loose quite a lot of very low bass power. So its why I did this tread. I wondered how these 4 types of Tempest can compare against subs which cost two times more.

I doubt that a sealed mid-Q Tempest can outperform or be equal against a Sunfire Signature, a Velodyne HGS-15 or an SVS with a dB-12 woofer (PC+, PB1+). Do I understimate too much a sealed mid-Q tempest?

 

[TimForman]

My sealed mid-Q is pretty scary at times. I have no doubt it could keep pace with those subs.

 

[Michael R Price]

Given the linear displacement and supposed T/S parameters it seems as if a well built/vented/powered Tempest would be up there with the SVS Plus subs... just a guess. When you add up the costs for a subwoofer... it seems pretty amazing how SVS can sell those things for their prices, but it's even more amazing how much you can get out of a Tempest for so little money. You also have more freedom in picking the right alignment for a room/purpose.

 

[ClaudeL]

a well built/vented/powered Tempest would be up there with[...]

But what about a mid-q and low-q tempest?

 

[Jack Gilvey]

This is the first question many beginners pose.Without some objective data on each sub in such a "comparison", it's all guesswork.
Once you begin to understand how these things work, you'll realize that it's tough to expect a sealed 15" to "outperform" an excellent vented 12" since the larger driver is relying completely on its Vd.

 

[TimForman]

Also, "performance" is very subjective. While some would consider a "good performer" to be something loud and window rattling, others prefer accurate and supportive, not overwhelming bass.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I was referring to objective performance, things that aren't based on opinion. As we all know, anyone can post anything on the 'net, regardless of qualification or knowledge. I avoid opinion wherever possible.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

I tried to sell a well crafted MDF adire alignment box for $150 with no success.

I think it was cause it was only to local buyers and the box is shaped like a cutoff pyramid. lol

(if anyones interested I can give a demo and/or pic)

 

[Darren_T]

I've found that selling a DIY sub outside of the DIY community is nearly impossible unless you are selling to a friend or family member.

Reason? People outside the DIY community only know consumer brands and reputation. They don't realize you can build a far superior product yourself with a little research or the help of a kit supplier.

Darren

 

[ClaudeL]

Reason? People outside the DIY community only know consumer brands and reputation.

JUSTLY... so this is why I would like to bring here experienced (who have heard or have already) many commercial subwoofers at home. By knowing how can compare these 4 different tempests design against commercial subs, I will be more able to tell the buyer before he comes at my home how my Tempest can compare. Because you know, I dont want for example to tell someone who has already a Velodyne HGS-15 that my Tempest would outperform it in SPL quite much if in reality, it wouldn't. And if I can make it sealed and can STILL compare agaist subwoofers which cost for exemple 1000 USD, this would be even more easy to sell in my opinion because a sealed enclosure will be smaller. I know that I will loose quite a lot of SPL down low thought...

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Ask for a few subs, test them in your home with an RTA and compare the results you get with your Tempest. That's the only way to do it right.

Now, if you trust your ears, simply go to a store (obviously the room will be different and the results will not be comparable with an RTA) and listen to them using the same material you use at home.

In my own experience, a Tempest is equal to a Velodyne 15 or even 18, Klipsch RSW15 and Paradigm PW2200. I have friends with all these subs, and I have done extensive listening tests. In my room, the Tempest goes as low, is as fast and tight and goes even louder sometimes.

You want more? how about some numbers? Again use an RTA and get the SPL's at different frequencies, also run distortion tests and any other one you want. Then you will have solid numbers to compare to reviews on the Internet.

I can tell you a couple of numbers. My Tempest is able to get 110dB at 18Hz with less than 10% THD. It can hit about 120dB (maybe a bit more) at about 30Hz. Im going by memory here, and your results will be different in every room, but its just to give you an example.

The easy conclusion? Yes, a Tempest is comparable to any comercial sub at around 1,000 to 2,000 bucks, maybe even more.

 

[ClaudeL]

Is your Tempest a vented alignment? I guess yes... what about a sealed one. By extrapoling what you said if you have a vented Tempest, the sealed Tempest would have some difficulties to keep up with a Velo HGS-18 down low, or to be as powerfull as the RSW-15 at 30 Hz (ex.)...

hmmm its damn tough choice for me. Should I keep it like it is now (200L tuned to 18.8 Hz) or should I make a sealed 122L enclosure to make it smaller in order to sell it easier but by loosing the low-end performance?

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Vented. and yes, a sealed one is not the same animal.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Something else too... I wish that commercial sub makers could post their T/S of their woofers, this would help us to judge more their subwoofers in SPL.

Basically, results are all that count. If an independent third party (like Nousaine's tests) reaches one conclusion, but your "simulations" reach another...who are you going to believe? Tom V from SVS has stated this numerous times when pressed for T/S of his drivers. I'm sure he'd let you have them if you were interested...to what end, though?

And, as far as size goes: When you start trying to get smaller and smaller (than optimum), you give away the chief advantage the DIY-er has over commercial offerings...which largely sacrifice performance for a small box.

 

[ClaudeL]

If an independent third party (like Nousaine's tests) reaches one conclusion, but your "simulations" reach another...who are you going to believe?

I understand that we cant mix for example a Tempest under "simulations" against an other sub in a certain room. What I meant about T/S parameters of commercial woofers is that I think it would be usefull to compare them with the Tempest woofer -> so 2 simulated subs. Seeing what those subs can "simulate" a certain result and that one of these is already in your room, I think you can have a very great idea of how they would perform against each other. Damn, my english isnt very top class, I hope that you get what I think!

Im really affraid to not get any buyers for my Tempest in the case of annoncing it in my local newspaper for example. This is when the person will come here that he will most likely think oh my god... this is one of a huge sub!!! Cant have this 150 pounds (just a guess) in my house! Do you think all that despite its hugeness, Im gonna be able to sell it? The size aspect really get me worried...