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Technicolor Musicals (1 Viewer)

David Grove

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Might we build a complete catalog? Here's a start. I will add titles as they are mentioned in the thread.



3-STRIP TECHNICOLOR MUSICALS (bold indicates DVD available-- sources: Robert Harris' column at Digital Bits, IMDB, DVDPriceSearch, and/or recent announcements. Errors are mine; Corrections welcomed.)

1934
La Cucharacha (musical short subject)
The Cat and The Fiddle (finale)
Hollywood Party - sequence
Kid Millions (finale)

1935
The Little Colonel - sequence

1936
The Dancing Pirate

1937
Vogues of 1938 (OOP?) (PD?)
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (OOP)

1938
The Goldwyn Follies (OOP)
Sweethearts

1939
Ice Follies of 1939
The Mikado
The Wizard of Oz

1940
Bitter Sweet
Down Argentine Way
Irene
Swanee River

1941
Fiesta
Louisana Purchase
Moon Over Miami
That Night in RIo
Weekend in Havana

1942
My Gal Sal
Song of the Islands
Springtime in the Rockies

1943
Best Foot Forward
Coney Island
Dixie
Dubarry Was a Lady
The Gang's All Here
Happy Go Lucky
Hello, Frisco, Hello
Riding High
Sweet Rosie O'Grady (DVD?)
This is the Army
Thousands Cheer

1944
Bathing Beauty
Broadway Rhythm
Can't Help Singing
Cover Girl
The Desert Song
Greenwhich Village
Irish Eyes are Smiling
Lady in the Dark
Meet Me in St. Louis
Pin Up Girl
Rainbow Island
Shine on Harvest Moon
Something for the Boys
Up in Arms

1945
Anchors Aweigh
Belle of the Yukon
Billy Rose's Diamond Horeshoe
Bring on the Girls
The Dolly Sisters
Incendiary Blonde
It's a Pleasure
A Song to Remember
State Fair
A Thousand and One Nights
Thrill of a Romance
Tonight and Every Night
Where Do We Go from Here?
Wonder Man (OOP)
Yolanda and the Thief

1946
Blue Skies
Do You Love Me?
Easy to Wed
The Harvey Girls
Holiday in Mexico
The Jolson Story
The Kid from Brooklyn
Night and Day
Three Little Girls in Blue
Till the Clouds Roll By
The Time, the Place and the Girl
Wake Up and Dream
Ziegfeld Follies

1947
Carnival in Costa Rica
Down to Earth
Fiesta
Good News
I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now?
Mother Wore Tights
My Heart Goes Crazy
My Wild Irish Rose
Secret Life of Walter Mitty (OOP)
Song of Scheherazade
This Time for Keeps

1948
A Date With Judy
Easter Parade
The Emperor Waltz
Give My Regards to Broadway
The Kissing Bandit
Luxury Liner
On an Island with You
One Sunday Afternoon
The Paleface
The Pirate
The Red Shoes
River Lady
Romance on the High Seas
A Song is Born
Summer Holiday
That Lady in Ermine
Two Guys from Texas
When My Baby Smiles at Me
Words and Music

1949
The Barkleys of Broadway
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
Dancing in the Dark
Gal Who Took the West
In the Good Old Summertime
Jolson Sings Again
Look for the Silver Lining
My Dream is Yours
Neptune's Daughter
Oh, You Beautiful Doll
On the Town
Take Me Out to the Ball Game
That Midnight Kiss
Yes, Sir, That's My Baby
You're My Everything

1950
Annie Get Your Gun
Buccaneer's Girl
Curtain Call at Cactus Creek
Daughter of Rosie O'Grady
Desert Hawk
Duchess of Idaho
Fancy Pants
I'll Get By
Let's Dance
My Blue Heaven
Nancy Goes to Rio
Pagan Love Song
Summer Stock
Tea for Two
Three Little Words
A Ticket to Tomahawk
Toast of New Orleans
Two Weeks with Love
Wabash Avenue

1951
An American in Paris
Call Me Mister
Excuse My Dust
Golden Girl
Great Caruso
Happy Go Lovely (PD)
Lullaby of Broadway
Meet Me After the Show
Mr. Imperium (PD)
On Moonlight Bay
On the Riviera
Painting the Clouds with Sunshine
Rich, Young and Pretty
Royal Wedding
Show Boat
Take Care of My Little Girl
Tales of Hoffman
Texas Carnival
Two Tickets to Broadway

1952
Aaron Slick from Punkin Crick
All Ashore
Because You're Mine
Belle of New York
Bloodhounds of Broadway
Everything I Have is Yours
Hans Christian Anderson (OOP)
Just for You
Lovely to Look At
Merry Widow
Million Dollar Mermaid
Rainbow 'Round My Shoulder
She's Working Her Way Through College
Singin' in the Rain
Skirts Ahoy
Somebody Loves Me
Son of Paleface
Stars and Stripes Forever
Where's Charley?
With a Song in My Heart

1953
By the Light of the Silvery Moon
Calamity Jane
Call Me Madam
Dangerous When Wet
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes
Small Town Girl
The Band Wagon



"NON 3-STRIP TECHNICOLOR MUSICALS

1954
White Christmas

1955
My Sister Eileen
Oklahoma!

1957
Funny Face

1958
South Pacific

1962
The Music Man

1964
My Fair Lady
Mary Poppins

1972
Cabaret



Edited 9/20 to update DVD availability and add source citation.
 

Roger Rollins

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Do you mean filmed in the actual 3-strip Technicolor process? If so, that ends around 1953/54.

Eastman Negatives were used for films that had dye-transfer release prints for almost 20 years thereafter, but really aren't "Technicolor".
 

Robert Harris

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Mr. Rollins is correct. You're list should end with The Band Wagon, one of the last of the acetate era Technicolor productions.
 

David Grove

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OK.

Let's differentiate between the 3 strip process and whatever Technicolor that followed. (Is that what I see referred to as IB?)

Can we form a complete catalog of all 3 strip Technicolor musicals?

I have always appreciated musicals. I am discovering that I really like the look of Technicolor (what little I have seen, so far). I like the visceral, visual appeal. If it's just eye candy, well, so be it for me. It's magnificent. I'm even willing to watch The Goldwyn Girls to see the wonderful use of colors in some of these movies. :)

Oversaturated? Unreal? I'm not qualified to have an informied opinion. I just know that I like the look, and I'd like to do my best to get every one of them. That means identifying the targets.

Thank you.

DG
 

Will Krupp

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IB Technicolor is just another name for the dye-transfer process (the nickname comes from the I.B. Corporation in Cambridge, MA which, I THINK, made the belts and machinery involved in the printing---another member may correct me or be more specific on just what I.B. did)

I have a copy of Fred Basten's GLORIOUS TECHNICOLOR at home, which purports to list every feature release for which Technicolor did prints. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now..so I'm gonna try to at least do the 1930's musicals by memory.

LA CUCHARACHA (musical short subject) 1934
KID MILLIONS (finale) 1934
THE CAT AND THE FIDDLE (finale) 1934
THE DANCING PIRATE 1936
VOGUES OF 1938 1937
SNOW WHITE 1937
THE GOLDWYN FOLLIES 1938
SWEETHEARTS 1938
THE MIKADO 1939
THE WIZARD OF OZ 1939

I think that may be it for musicals...I hope I haven't missed any, but I'll have a list of later decades once I have the book in my hands. I hope this helps as a start.
 

Robert Harris

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Post three-strip era used Eastman color negative as a capture format.

While some 16 and 35mm prints may have been produced in dye transfer, many were also printed on Eastman color print stock. All 70mm was Eastman. Feel free to use my Bits column for a reference from which three-strip musicals may be culled.

RAH
 

David Grove

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Thank you, Will. I'll update my list.


Thank you, Ted. I appreciated your link. Sort of a pre-101 of Technicolor. I see I have much, much to learn.

So, are the "Technicolor" movies after 1953/54 then just the "cheap imitations"? By that phrase I mean actual Technicolor IB prints, but derived not from 3 strip negatives, but from a single strip, color negative.

Follow-up: If the above paragraph about "cheap imitations" is correct, then how do they get the 3 negatives required for a Technicolor IB print when there is only a single color negative to start with? They must (I am asking here, more than asserting) separate the colors optically, which itself probably introduces at least 1 additional generation, let alone incorporates the deleterious effects of doing the separation from a color negative (already constrained by gamut limitations of the film stock, itself) rather than from an original, optically-imaged, physical scene.

It would seem to me, then, if I am putting this together even half right, that to call this "other process", even if printed with IB matrices, "Technicolor" is really sort of misleading, since it just isn't likely possible (again, I have to repeat that I am reasoning from total Technicolor ignorance, and could be very confused, here) to produce the same final level of quality by separating from a color negative, as it is by separating from the original scene and then reducing to a negative (actually 3 negatives).

Am I on the right track to understanding this?

Regards,


Edit: Thak you, Robert, too. Thanks for the reference to your column. Your reply hit while I was composing this post.

DG
 

Will Krupp

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Dye transfer prints after 1953 could be as stunning as anything. You really ought to search out Fred Basten's book on ebay or at a used book store. It's an invaluable resource if you are just learning about this and have a real interest (which you obviously do). Also you should pick up the dvd of Disney's POLLYANNA to see the short on the restoration of the film from the faded negative. It contains alot of good information on prints made from a single strip negative.

This link is very informative (and also talks about the IB Corporation of Cambridge)

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/..._HiRes_v1a.pdf

Good luck, I know how you feel. I became a Technicolor junkie from the moment I saw Gone With the Wind when I was a little kid.

By the way, that link seems to be down tonight, but try it again later..it's really wonderful.
 

Robert Harris

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Another book of interest should be Richard W. Haine's Technicolor Movies: The History of Dye Transfer Printing, available via sites such as Abebooks for around $30.

Imbibition or, more correctly, dye transfer prints, are technically the same print element derived from different (more pure and controlled) originals. Later dye transfer prints are not a "cheap imitation," but rather are the later technology, made easier via single strip color negatives, which contained (and still contain) all three color layers.

The later variation was sharper, with high resolution simply because everything in the process had been bettered over the years.

Both are created by optically producing printing matrices from the original negatives. With three-strip there was no separation to be performed, as each black & white negative record had captured a certain portion of the color scale, broken up into yellow, cyan and magenta.

Wth Eastman Color negatives, the colors are separated out with filters, and matrices produced directly from the Onegs.

The "look" is totally different. While certain colors, especially primary, can look especially rich in color negative derived DT prints, it is not the same "look" as with three strip, which had no cross-contamination or drifting of the color scale between records.

Protection elements for three-strip Technicolor negatives were simple black and white masters, while those created for color neg were separation masters on totally different stock. Transfers for home video or broadcast use derived from three-strip elements can be made to approximate the look of the film when originally released. Virtually all Eastman Color productions produced between 1955 and 1960 are now unprintable for accurate color, as the Y layer, if not all, have faded.

RAH
 

Robert Harris

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A List...

The titles listed below are a reasonably accurate gathering of three-strip productions. When one hits 1953-4, there are a number of questions and more research to be done on the subject.

1934

The Cat and the Fiddle - sequence (MGM) - Rennahan
Hollywood Party - sequence (MGM)
Kid Millions - last reel (GOLDWYN/UA) - Rennahan

1935

The Little Colonel - sequence (FOX) - Skall

1936

The Dancing Pirate (RKO) - Skall

1937

Vogues of 1938 (UA) - Rennahan

1938

The Goldwyn Follies (UA) - Toland
Sweethearts (MGM) - Davey/Marsh

1939

Ice Follies of 1939 (MGM) - Marsh
The Mikado (BRITISH, U) - Skall
The Wizard of Oz (MGM) - Rosson

1940

Bittersweet (FOX) - Davey/Marsh
Down Argentine Way (FOX) - Rennahan/Shamroy
Irene (RKO)
Swanee River (FOX) - Glennon

1941

Fiesta (UA)
Louisiana Purchase (PAR) - Rennahan
Moon Over Miami (FOX) - Davey/Shamroy
That Night in Rio (FOX) - Rennahan/Shamroy
Weekend in Havana (FOX) - Palmer

1942

My Gal Sal (FOX) - Palmer
Song of the Islands (FOX) - Palmer
Springtime in the Rockies (FOX) - Palmer

1943

Best Foot Forward (MGM)
Coney Island (FOX) - Palmer
Dixie (PAR) - Mellor
Dubarry Was a Lady (MGM)
The Gang's All Here (FOX) - Cronjager
Happy Go Lucky (PAR)
Hello, Frisco, Hello (FOX) - Davey/Clarke
Riding High (PAR)
Sweet Rosie O'Grady (FOX) - Palmer
This is the Army (WB) - Glennon
Thousands Cheer (MGM)

1944

Bathing Beauty (MGM)
Broadway Rhythm (MGM)
Can't Help Singing (U)
Cover Girl (COL) - Davey
The Desert Song (WB) - Glennon
Greenwich Village (FOX) - Shamroy
Irish Eyes are Smiling (FOX)
Lady in the Dark (PAR) - Rennahan
Meet Me in St. Louis (MGM) - Folsey
Pin Up Girl (FOX) - Palmer
Rainbow Island (PAR)
Shine on Harvest Moon (WB)
Something for the Boys (FOX) - Palmer
Up in Arms (RKO) - Rennahan

1945

Anchors Aweigh (MGM) - Boyle
Belle of the Yukon (RKO) - Rennahan
Billy Rose's Diamond Horeshoe (FOX) - Palmer
Bring on the Girls (PAR)
The Dolly Sisters (FOX) - Palmer
Incendiary Blonde (PAR)
It's a Pleasure (RKO)
A Song to Remember (COL) - Davey
State Fair (FOX) - Shamroy
A Thousand and One Nights (COL)
Thrill of a Romance (MGM)
Tonight and Every Night (COL)
Where Do We Go from Here? (FOX) - Shamroy
Wonder Man (RKO) - Milner
Yolanda and the Thief (MGM) - Rosher

1946

Blue Skies (PAR)
Do You Love Me? (FOX) - Cronjager
Easy to Wed (MGM) - Stradling
The Harvey Girls (MGM) - Folsey
Holiday in Mexico (MGM)
The Jolson Story (COL)
The Kid from Brooklyn (RKO) - Toland
Night and Day (WB) - Skall
Three Little Girls in Blue (FOX) - Palmer
Till the Clouds Roll By (MGM) - Stradling
The Time, the Place and the Girl (WB)
Wake Up and Dream (FOX)
Ziegfeld Follies (MGM) - Rosher/Folsey

1947

Carnival in Costa Rica (FOX)
Down to Earth (COL)
Fiesta (MGM) - Rosher
Good News(MGM)
I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now? (FOX) - Palmer
Mother Wore Tights (WB)
My Heart Goes Crazy (IND)
My Wild Irish Rose (WB) - Skall
Secret Life of Walter Mitty (RKO) - Garmes
Song of Scheherazade (U) - Skall
This Time for Keeps (MGM)

1948

A Date with Judy (MGM) - Surtees
Easter Parade (MGM) - Stradling
The Emperor Waltz (PAR) - Barnes
Give My Regards to Broadway (FOX)
The Kissing Bandit (MGM) - Surtees
Luxury Liner (MGM)
On an Island with You (MGM) - Rosher
One Sunday Afternoon (WB)
The Paleface (PAR) - Rennahan
The Pirate (MGM) - Stradling
The Red Shoes (BRITISH, EL) - Cardiff
River Lady (U)
Romance on the High Seas (WB) - Bredell
A Song is Born (RKO) - Toland
Summer Holiday (MGM)
That Lady in Ermine (FOX)
Two Guys from Texas (WB) - Skall
When My Baby Smiles at Me (FOX)
Words and Music (MGM) - Stradling/Rosher

1949

Barkleys of Broadway (MGM) - Stradling
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (PAR) - Rennahan
Dancing in the Dark (FOX)
Gal Who Took the West (MGM)
In the Good Old Summertime - Stradling
Jolson Sings Again (COL)
Look for the Silver Lining (WB)
My Dream is Yours (WB)
Neptune's Daughter (MGM)
Oh, You Beautiful Doll (FOX)
On the Town (MGM) - Rosson
Take Me Out to the Ball Game (MGM)
That Midnight Kiss (MGM)
Yes, Sir, That's My Baby (U)
You're My Everything (FOX)

1950

Annie Get Your Gun (MGM) - Rosher
Buccaneer's Girl (UNIV)
Curtain Call at Cactus Creek (UNIV)
Daughter of Rosie O'Grady (WB)
Desert Hawk (UNIV)
Duchess of Idaho (MGM)
Fancy Pants (PARA)
I'll Get By (BRIT) - Clarke
Let's Dance (PARA)
My Blue Heaven (FOX)
Nancy Goes to Rio (MGM)
Pagan Love Song (MGM) - Rosher
Summer Stock (MGM) - Planck
Tea for Two (WB)
Three Little Words (MGM)
A Ticket to Tomahawk (FOX)
Toast of New Orleans (MGM)
Two Weeks with Love (MGM)
Wabash Avenue (FOX)

1951

An American in Paris (MGM) - Alton
Call Me Mister (FOX)
Excuse My Dust (MGM)
Golden Girl (FOX) - Clarke
Great Caruso (MGM)
Happy Go Lovely (RKO)
Lullaby of Broadway (WB)
Meet Me After the Show (FOX)
On Moonlight Bay (WB) - Haller
On the Riviera (FOX) - Shamroy
Painting the Clouds with Sunshine (WB)
Rich, Young and Pretty (MGM) - Planck
Royal Wedding (MGM) - Planck
Show Boat (MGM) - Rosher
Take Care of My Little Girl (FOX)
Tales of Hoffman (BRIT/EL) - Challis
Texas Carnival (MGM)
Two Tickets to Broadway (RKO) - Cronjager

1952

Aaron Slick from Punkin Crick (PARA)
All Ashore (COL)
Because You're Mine (MGM)
Belle of New York (MGM) - Planck
Bloodhounds of Broadway (FOX) - Cronjager
Everything I Have is Yours (MGM)
Hans Christian Anderson (RKO/GOLDWYN) - Stradling
Just for You (PARA)
Lovely to Look At (MGM)
Merry Widow (MGM) - Surtees
Million Dollar Mermaid (MGM)
Rainbow 'Round My Shoulder (COL)
She's Working Her Way Through College (WB)
Singin' in the Rain (MGM) - Rosson
Skirts Ahoy (MGM)
Somebody Loves Me (PARA) - Barnes
Son of Paleface (PARA)
Stars and Stripes Forever (FOX) - Clarke
Where's Charley? (WB)
With a Song in My Heart (FOX) - Shamroy

1953

The Band Wagon (MGM)
By the Light of the Silvery Moon (WB)
Calamity Jane (WB)
Call Me Madam (Fox)
Gentlemen Prefer Blonds (Fox)
Small Town Girl (MGM)
 

David Grove

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Thank you for separating out the musicals from your master Technicolor list, Robert.


Relatively few of these are available on DVD... I guess that can only mean great future potential. :) Hoping for sooner, rather than later.


Thank you all for your comments. I plan on availing myself of the several Technicolor resources mentioned. This is very interesting stuff.

DG
 

David Grove

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Regarding the post 1953 Technicolor...

Do I now understand that the brand "Technicolor", whether found in places such as IMDB, or even the logo in the film itself, is ambiguous? The "Technicolor" mark could mean either of the following after 1953:

1)Print might have been produced by a dye transfer process, but the masters may have been created either from a 3 strip camera, or from separating a single strip color negative.

2)Print might not be dye transfer, but just processed by the Technicolor company.

In summary, just saying a film is "Technicolor" doesn't really mean a single, specific process after 1953, right?

Do I now understand correctly that using a dye transfer print process for material derived from separating a single color negative can (but not necessarily has to) produce quality comparable to (but qualitatively distinct from) true 3 strip?

Thank you.

DG
 

Will Krupp

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Someone, somewhere (and I THINK it may have been the esteemed Robert Harris but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. IF it wasn't you Mr. Harris, I apologize in advance) said it's important to remember that Technicolor can actually mean three different things

a.) A Photographic Process

b.) A printing Process

c.) A lab


a) always uses b) and c)

b) sometimes uses a) but always uses c)

c) sometimes uses a) and b) but sometimes doesn't use either.
 

Robert Harris

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David Grove wrote: "Do I now understand correctly that using a dye transfer print process for material derived from separating a single color negative can (but not necessarily has to) produce quality comparable to (but qualitatively distinct from) true 3 strip?"

Yes... and

No.

Technicolor's dye transfer process, although admittedly the finest that the industry has seen, was never perfect. Prints were produced unit by unit, with variations in color from print to print. Prints were graded for proper color, with the best generally going to the most important exchanges. Reprints for re-issues were, in many cases, notoriously poor, as no one went back to examine an original before printing. The 1970 prints of Lawrence were among the worst that I've seen, ranging in color from several points magenta to cyan and everything in between.

The fact that something was photographed in three-strip Technicolor, or separated for printing from Eastman color negative to be printed via dye transfer did not guarantee high quality prints, although when the quality was being watched during production, prints of both the three-strip and EK variety could both be beautiful. Different in many ways, but beautiful.

RAH
 

David Grove

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Will,

Thanks for your comment. That does sound familiar. I think, now that you refreshed my memory, that I read it before. Probably from RAH's column. I must go over to digitalbits and (re)read everything RAH had to say about Technicolor. Somehow, it didn't pique my interest upon first reading, as it does now. Can't explain that, but now it is utterly fascinating.

Robert,

So, (attempting to check my understanding, here) printing from separation masters CAN be just as good (although different to an experienced eye) as 3-strip. The bugaboo would seem to be that prints derived from 3-strip are not necessarily themselves always of uniformly consistent, highest quality. The "rubber ruler" thus makes my question less meaningful, and explains your answer of "yes and no".

Am I understanding?

Thank you.

DG
 

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