Technicolor Musicals

Discussion in 'DVD' started by David Grove, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. David Grove

    David Grove Stunt Coordinator

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    Might we build a complete catalog? Here's a start. I will add titles as they are mentioned in the thread.



    3-STRIP TECHNICOLOR MUSICALS (bold indicates DVD available-- sources: Robert Harris' column at Digital Bits, IMDB, DVDPriceSearch, and/or recent announcements. Errors are mine; Corrections welcomed.)

    1934
    La Cucharacha (musical short subject)
    The Cat and The Fiddle (finale)
    Hollywood Party - sequence
    Kid Millions (finale)

    1935
    The Little Colonel - sequence

    1936
    The Dancing Pirate

    1937
    Vogues of 1938 (OOP?) (PD?)
    Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (OOP)

    1938
    The Goldwyn Follies (OOP)
    Sweethearts

    1939
    Ice Follies of 1939
    The Mikado
    The Wizard of Oz

    1940
    Bitter Sweet
    Down Argentine Way
    Irene
    Swanee River

    1941
    Fiesta
    Louisana Purchase
    Moon Over Miami
    That Night in RIo
    Weekend in Havana

    1942
    My Gal Sal
    Song of the Islands
    Springtime in the Rockies

    1943
    Best Foot Forward
    Coney Island
    Dixie
    Dubarry Was a Lady
    The Gang's All Here
    Happy Go Lucky
    Hello, Frisco, Hello
    Riding High
    Sweet Rosie O'Grady (DVD?)
    This is the Army
    Thousands Cheer

    1944
    Bathing Beauty
    Broadway Rhythm
    Can't Help Singing
    Cover Girl
    The Desert Song
    Greenwhich Village
    Irish Eyes are Smiling
    Lady in the Dark
    Meet Me in St. Louis
    Pin Up Girl
    Rainbow Island
    Shine on Harvest Moon
    Something for the Boys
    Up in Arms

    1945
    Anchors Aweigh
    Belle of the Yukon
    Billy Rose's Diamond Horeshoe
    Bring on the Girls
    The Dolly Sisters
    Incendiary Blonde
    It's a Pleasure
    A Song to Remember
    State Fair
    A Thousand and One Nights
    Thrill of a Romance
    Tonight and Every Night
    Where Do We Go from Here?
    Wonder Man (OOP)
    Yolanda and the Thief

    1946
    Blue Skies
    Do You Love Me?
    Easy to Wed
    The Harvey Girls
    Holiday in Mexico
    The Jolson Story
    The Kid from Brooklyn
    Night and Day
    Three Little Girls in Blue
    Till the Clouds Roll By
    The Time, the Place and the Girl
    Wake Up and Dream
    Ziegfeld Follies

    1947
    Carnival in Costa Rica
    Down to Earth
    Fiesta
    Good News
    I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now?
    Mother Wore Tights
    My Heart Goes Crazy
    My Wild Irish Rose
    Secret Life of Walter Mitty (OOP)
    Song of Scheherazade
    This Time for Keeps

    1948
    A Date With Judy
    Easter Parade
    The Emperor Waltz
    Give My Regards to Broadway
    The Kissing Bandit
    Luxury Liner
    On an Island with You
    One Sunday Afternoon
    The Paleface
    The Pirate
    The Red Shoes
    River Lady
    Romance on the High Seas
    A Song is Born
    Summer Holiday
    That Lady in Ermine
    Two Guys from Texas
    When My Baby Smiles at Me
    Words and Music

    1949
    The Barkleys of Broadway
    A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
    Dancing in the Dark
    Gal Who Took the West
    In the Good Old Summertime
    Jolson Sings Again
    Look for the Silver Lining
    My Dream is Yours
    Neptune's Daughter
    Oh, You Beautiful Doll
    On the Town
    Take Me Out to the Ball Game
    That Midnight Kiss
    Yes, Sir, That's My Baby
    You're My Everything

    1950
    Annie Get Your Gun
    Buccaneer's Girl
    Curtain Call at Cactus Creek
    Daughter of Rosie O'Grady
    Desert Hawk
    Duchess of Idaho
    Fancy Pants
    I'll Get By
    Let's Dance
    My Blue Heaven
    Nancy Goes to Rio
    Pagan Love Song
    Summer Stock
    Tea for Two
    Three Little Words
    A Ticket to Tomahawk
    Toast of New Orleans
    Two Weeks with Love
    Wabash Avenue

    1951
    An American in Paris
    Call Me Mister
    Excuse My Dust
    Golden Girl
    Great Caruso
    Happy Go Lovely (PD)
    Lullaby of Broadway
    Meet Me After the Show
    Mr. Imperium (PD)
    On Moonlight Bay
    On the Riviera
    Painting the Clouds with Sunshine
    Rich, Young and Pretty
    Royal Wedding
    Show Boat
    Take Care of My Little Girl
    Tales of Hoffman
    Texas Carnival
    Two Tickets to Broadway

    1952
    Aaron Slick from Punkin Crick
    All Ashore
    Because You're Mine
    Belle of New York
    Bloodhounds of Broadway
    Everything I Have is Yours
    Hans Christian Anderson (OOP)
    Just for You
    Lovely to Look At
    Merry Widow
    Million Dollar Mermaid
    Rainbow 'Round My Shoulder
    She's Working Her Way Through College
    Singin' in the Rain
    Skirts Ahoy
    Somebody Loves Me
    Son of Paleface
    Stars and Stripes Forever
    Where's Charley?
    With a Song in My Heart

    1953
    By the Light of the Silvery Moon
    Calamity Jane
    Call Me Madam
    Dangerous When Wet
    Gentlemen Prefer Blondes
    Small Town Girl
    The Band Wagon



    "NON 3-STRIP TECHNICOLOR MUSICALS

    1954
    White Christmas

    1955
    My Sister Eileen
    Oklahoma!

    1957
    Funny Face

    1958
    South Pacific

    1962
    The Music Man

    1964
    My Fair Lady
    Mary Poppins

    1972
    Cabaret



    Edited 9/20 to update DVD availability and add source citation.
     
  2. Roger Rollins

    Roger Rollins Supporting Actor

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    Do you mean filmed in the actual 3-strip Technicolor process? If so, that ends around 1953/54.

    Eastman Negatives were used for films that had dye-transfer release prints for almost 20 years thereafter, but really aren't "Technicolor".
     
  3. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Mr. Rollins is correct. You're list should end with The Band Wagon, one of the last of the acetate era Technicolor productions.
     
  4. David Grove

    David Grove Stunt Coordinator

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    OK.

    Let's differentiate between the 3 strip process and whatever Technicolor that followed. (Is that what I see referred to as IB?)

    Can we form a complete catalog of all 3 strip Technicolor musicals?

    I have always appreciated musicals. I am discovering that I really like the look of Technicolor (what little I have seen, so far). I like the visceral, visual appeal. If it's just eye candy, well, so be it for me. It's magnificent. I'm even willing to watch The Goldwyn Girls to see the wonderful use of colors in some of these movies. :)

    Oversaturated? Unreal? I'm not qualified to have an informied opinion. I just know that I like the look, and I'd like to do my best to get every one of them. That means identifying the targets.

    Thank you.

    DG
     
  5. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    IB Technicolor is just another name for the dye-transfer process (the nickname comes from the I.B. Corporation in Cambridge, MA which, I THINK, made the belts and machinery involved in the printing---another member may correct me or be more specific on just what I.B. did)

    I have a copy of Fred Basten's GLORIOUS TECHNICOLOR at home, which purports to list every feature release for which Technicolor did prints. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now..so I'm gonna try to at least do the 1930's musicals by memory.

    LA CUCHARACHA (musical short subject) 1934
    KID MILLIONS (finale) 1934
    THE CAT AND THE FIDDLE (finale) 1934
    THE DANCING PIRATE 1936
    VOGUES OF 1938 1937
    SNOW WHITE 1937
    THE GOLDWYN FOLLIES 1938
    SWEETHEARTS 1938
    THE MIKADO 1939
    THE WIZARD OF OZ 1939

    I think that may be it for musicals...I hope I haven't missed any, but I'll have a list of later decades once I have the book in my hands. I hope this helps as a start.
     
  6. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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  7. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Post three-strip era used Eastman color negative as a capture format.

    While some 16 and 35mm prints may have been produced in dye transfer, many were also printed on Eastman color print stock. All 70mm was Eastman. Feel free to use my Bits column for a reference from which three-strip musicals may be culled.

    RAH
     
  8. David Grove

    David Grove Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you, Will. I'll update my list.


    Thank you, Ted. I appreciated your link. Sort of a pre-101 of Technicolor. I see I have much, much to learn.

    So, are the "Technicolor" movies after 1953/54 then just the "cheap imitations"? By that phrase I mean actual Technicolor IB prints, but derived not from 3 strip negatives, but from a single strip, color negative.

    Follow-up: If the above paragraph about "cheap imitations" is correct, then how do they get the 3 negatives required for a Technicolor IB print when there is only a single color negative to start with? They must (I am asking here, more than asserting) separate the colors optically, which itself probably introduces at least 1 additional generation, let alone incorporates the deleterious effects of doing the separation from a color negative (already constrained by gamut limitations of the film stock, itself) rather than from an original, optically-imaged, physical scene.

    It would seem to me, then, if I am putting this together even half right, that to call this "other process", even if printed with IB matrices, "Technicolor" is really sort of misleading, since it just isn't likely possible (again, I have to repeat that I am reasoning from total Technicolor ignorance, and could be very confused, here) to produce the same final level of quality by separating from a color negative, as it is by separating from the original scene and then reducing to a negative (actually 3 negatives).

    Am I on the right track to understanding this?

    Regards,


    Edit: Thak you, Robert, too. Thanks for the reference to your column. Your reply hit while I was composing this post.

    DG
     
  9. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    Dye transfer prints after 1953 could be as stunning as anything. You really ought to search out Fred Basten's book on ebay or at a used book store. It's an invaluable resource if you are just learning about this and have a real interest (which you obviously do). Also you should pick up the dvd of Disney's POLLYANNA to see the short on the restoration of the film from the faded negative. It contains alot of good information on prints made from a single strip negative.

    This link is very informative (and also talks about the IB Corporation of Cambridge)

    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/..._HiRes_v1a.pdf

    Good luck, I know how you feel. I became a Technicolor junkie from the moment I saw Gone With the Wind when I was a little kid.

    By the way, that link seems to be down tonight, but try it again later..it's really wonderful.
     
  10. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Another book of interest should be Richard W. Haine's Technicolor Movies: The History of Dye Transfer Printing, available via sites such as Abebooks for around $30.

    Imbibition or, more correctly, dye transfer prints, are technically the same print element derived from different (more pure and controlled) originals. Later dye transfer prints are not a "cheap imitation," but rather are the later technology, made easier via single strip color negatives, which contained (and still contain) all three color layers.

    The later variation was sharper, with high resolution simply because everything in the process had been bettered over the years.

    Both are created by optically producing printing matrices from the original negatives. With three-strip there was no separation to be performed, as each black & white negative record had captured a certain portion of the color scale, broken up into yellow, cyan and magenta.

    Wth Eastman Color negatives, the colors are separated out with filters, and matrices produced directly from the Onegs.

    The "look" is totally different. While certain colors, especially primary, can look especially rich in color negative derived DT prints, it is not the same "look" as with three strip, which had no cross-contamination or drifting of the color scale between records.

    Protection elements for three-strip Technicolor negatives were simple black and white masters, while those created for color neg were separation masters on totally different stock. Transfers for home video or broadcast use derived from three-strip elements can be made to approximate the look of the film when originally released. Virtually all Eastman Color productions produced between 1955 and 1960 are now unprintable for accurate color, as the Y layer, if not all, have faded.

    RAH
     
  11. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    A List...

    The titles listed below are a reasonably accurate gathering of three-strip productions. When one hits 1953-4, there are a number of questions and more research to be done on the subject.

    1934

    The Cat and the Fiddle - sequence (MGM) - Rennahan
    Hollywood Party - sequence (MGM)
    Kid Millions - last reel (GOLDWYN/UA) - Rennahan

    1935

    The Little Colonel - sequence (FOX) - Skall

    1936

    The Dancing Pirate (RKO) - Skall

    1937

    Vogues of 1938 (UA) - Rennahan

    1938

    The Goldwyn Follies (UA) - Toland
    Sweethearts (MGM) - Davey/Marsh

    1939

    Ice Follies of 1939 (MGM) - Marsh
    The Mikado (BRITISH, U) - Skall
    The Wizard of Oz (MGM) - Rosson

    1940

    Bittersweet (FOX) - Davey/Marsh
    Down Argentine Way (FOX) - Rennahan/Shamroy
    Irene (RKO)
    Swanee River (FOX) - Glennon

    1941

    Fiesta (UA)
    Louisiana Purchase (PAR) - Rennahan
    Moon Over Miami (FOX) - Davey/Shamroy
    That Night in Rio (FOX) - Rennahan/Shamroy
    Weekend in Havana (FOX) - Palmer

    1942

    My Gal Sal (FOX) - Palmer
    Song of the Islands (FOX) - Palmer
    Springtime in the Rockies (FOX) - Palmer

    1943

    Best Foot Forward (MGM)
    Coney Island (FOX) - Palmer
    Dixie (PAR) - Mellor
    Dubarry Was a Lady (MGM)
    The Gang's All Here (FOX) - Cronjager
    Happy Go Lucky (PAR)
    Hello, Frisco, Hello (FOX) - Davey/Clarke
    Riding High (PAR)
    Sweet Rosie O'Grady (FOX) - Palmer
    This is the Army (WB) - Glennon
    Thousands Cheer (MGM)

    1944

    Bathing Beauty (MGM)
    Broadway Rhythm (MGM)
    Can't Help Singing (U)
    Cover Girl (COL) - Davey
    The Desert Song (WB) - Glennon
    Greenwich Village (FOX) - Shamroy
    Irish Eyes are Smiling (FOX)
    Lady in the Dark (PAR) - Rennahan
    Meet Me in St. Louis (MGM) - Folsey
    Pin Up Girl (FOX) - Palmer
    Rainbow Island (PAR)
    Shine on Harvest Moon (WB)
    Something for the Boys (FOX) - Palmer
    Up in Arms (RKO) - Rennahan

    1945

    Anchors Aweigh (MGM) - Boyle
    Belle of the Yukon (RKO) - Rennahan
    Billy Rose's Diamond Horeshoe (FOX) - Palmer
    Bring on the Girls (PAR)
    The Dolly Sisters (FOX) - Palmer
    Incendiary Blonde (PAR)
    It's a Pleasure (RKO)
    A Song to Remember (COL) - Davey
    State Fair (FOX) - Shamroy
    A Thousand and One Nights (COL)
    Thrill of a Romance (MGM)
    Tonight and Every Night (COL)
    Where Do We Go from Here? (FOX) - Shamroy
    Wonder Man (RKO) - Milner
    Yolanda and the Thief (MGM) - Rosher

    1946

    Blue Skies (PAR)
    Do You Love Me? (FOX) - Cronjager
    Easy to Wed (MGM) - Stradling
    The Harvey Girls (MGM) - Folsey
    Holiday in Mexico (MGM)
    The Jolson Story (COL)
    The Kid from Brooklyn (RKO) - Toland
    Night and Day (WB) - Skall
    Three Little Girls in Blue (FOX) - Palmer
    Till the Clouds Roll By (MGM) - Stradling
    The Time, the Place and the Girl (WB)
    Wake Up and Dream (FOX)
    Ziegfeld Follies (MGM) - Rosher/Folsey

    1947

    Carnival in Costa Rica (FOX)
    Down to Earth (COL)
    Fiesta (MGM) - Rosher
    Good News(MGM)
    I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now? (FOX) - Palmer
    Mother Wore Tights (WB)
    My Heart Goes Crazy (IND)
    My Wild Irish Rose (WB) - Skall
    Secret Life of Walter Mitty (RKO) - Garmes
    Song of Scheherazade (U) - Skall
    This Time for Keeps (MGM)

    1948

    A Date with Judy (MGM) - Surtees
    Easter Parade (MGM) - Stradling
    The Emperor Waltz (PAR) - Barnes
    Give My Regards to Broadway (FOX)
    The Kissing Bandit (MGM) - Surtees
    Luxury Liner (MGM)
    On an Island with You (MGM) - Rosher
    One Sunday Afternoon (WB)
    The Paleface (PAR) - Rennahan
    The Pirate (MGM) - Stradling
    The Red Shoes (BRITISH, EL) - Cardiff
    River Lady (U)
    Romance on the High Seas (WB) - Bredell
    A Song is Born (RKO) - Toland
    Summer Holiday (MGM)
    That Lady in Ermine (FOX)
    Two Guys from Texas (WB) - Skall
    When My Baby Smiles at Me (FOX)
    Words and Music (MGM) - Stradling/Rosher

    1949

    Barkleys of Broadway (MGM) - Stradling
    A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (PAR) - Rennahan
    Dancing in the Dark (FOX)
    Gal Who Took the West (MGM)
    In the Good Old Summertime - Stradling
    Jolson Sings Again (COL)
    Look for the Silver Lining (WB)
    My Dream is Yours (WB)
    Neptune's Daughter (MGM)
    Oh, You Beautiful Doll (FOX)
    On the Town (MGM) - Rosson
    Take Me Out to the Ball Game (MGM)
    That Midnight Kiss (MGM)
    Yes, Sir, That's My Baby (U)
    You're My Everything (FOX)

    1950

    Annie Get Your Gun (MGM) - Rosher
    Buccaneer's Girl (UNIV)
    Curtain Call at Cactus Creek (UNIV)
    Daughter of Rosie O'Grady (WB)
    Desert Hawk (UNIV)
    Duchess of Idaho (MGM)
    Fancy Pants (PARA)
    I'll Get By (BRIT) - Clarke
    Let's Dance (PARA)
    My Blue Heaven (FOX)
    Nancy Goes to Rio (MGM)
    Pagan Love Song (MGM) - Rosher
    Summer Stock (MGM) - Planck
    Tea for Two (WB)
    Three Little Words (MGM)
    A Ticket to Tomahawk (FOX)
    Toast of New Orleans (MGM)
    Two Weeks with Love (MGM)
    Wabash Avenue (FOX)

    1951

    An American in Paris (MGM) - Alton
    Call Me Mister (FOX)
    Excuse My Dust (MGM)
    Golden Girl (FOX) - Clarke
    Great Caruso (MGM)
    Happy Go Lovely (RKO)
    Lullaby of Broadway (WB)
    Meet Me After the Show (FOX)
    On Moonlight Bay (WB) - Haller
    On the Riviera (FOX) - Shamroy
    Painting the Clouds with Sunshine (WB)
    Rich, Young and Pretty (MGM) - Planck
    Royal Wedding (MGM) - Planck
    Show Boat (MGM) - Rosher
    Take Care of My Little Girl (FOX)
    Tales of Hoffman (BRIT/EL) - Challis
    Texas Carnival (MGM)
    Two Tickets to Broadway (RKO) - Cronjager

    1952

    Aaron Slick from Punkin Crick (PARA)
    All Ashore (COL)
    Because You're Mine (MGM)
    Belle of New York (MGM) - Planck
    Bloodhounds of Broadway (FOX) - Cronjager
    Everything I Have is Yours (MGM)
    Hans Christian Anderson (RKO/GOLDWYN) - Stradling
    Just for You (PARA)
    Lovely to Look At (MGM)
    Merry Widow (MGM) - Surtees
    Million Dollar Mermaid (MGM)
    Rainbow 'Round My Shoulder (COL)
    She's Working Her Way Through College (WB)
    Singin' in the Rain (MGM) - Rosson
    Skirts Ahoy (MGM)
    Somebody Loves Me (PARA) - Barnes
    Son of Paleface (PARA)
    Stars and Stripes Forever (FOX) - Clarke
    Where's Charley? (WB)
    With a Song in My Heart (FOX) - Shamroy

    1953

    The Band Wagon (MGM)
    By the Light of the Silvery Moon (WB)
    Calamity Jane (WB)
    Call Me Madam (Fox)
    Gentlemen Prefer Blonds (Fox)
    Small Town Girl (MGM)
     
  12. David Grove

    David Grove Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you for separating out the musicals from your master Technicolor list, Robert.


    Relatively few of these are available on DVD... I guess that can only mean great future potential. [​IMG] Hoping for sooner, rather than later.


    Thank you all for your comments. I plan on availing myself of the several Technicolor resources mentioned. This is very interesting stuff.

    DG
     
  13. DaveK

    DaveK Second Unit

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    Wait a minute....

    Is Ziegfeld Follies coming to DVD soon?
     
  14. Roger Rollins

    Roger Rollins Supporting Actor

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    KISMET (1944), THE SPANISH MAIN, and SMOKY were not musicals....
     
  15. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    The corrections are appreciated.

    rah
     
  16. David Grove

    David Grove Stunt Coordinator

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    Corrected.
     
  17. David Grove

    David Grove Stunt Coordinator

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    Regarding the post 1953 Technicolor...

    Do I now understand that the brand "Technicolor", whether found in places such as IMDB, or even the logo in the film itself, is ambiguous? The "Technicolor" mark could mean either of the following after 1953:

    1)Print might have been produced by a dye transfer process, but the masters may have been created either from a 3 strip camera, or from separating a single strip color negative.

    2)Print might not be dye transfer, but just processed by the Technicolor company.

    In summary, just saying a film is "Technicolor" doesn't really mean a single, specific process after 1953, right?

    Do I now understand correctly that using a dye transfer print process for material derived from separating a single color negative can (but not necessarily has to) produce quality comparable to (but qualitatively distinct from) true 3 strip?

    Thank you.

    DG
     
  18. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    Someone, somewhere (and I THINK it may have been the esteemed Robert Harris but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. IF it wasn't you Mr. Harris, I apologize in advance) said it's important to remember that Technicolor can actually mean three different things

    a.) A Photographic Process

    b.) A printing Process

    c.) A lab


    a) always uses b) and c)

    b) sometimes uses a) but always uses c)

    c) sometimes uses a) and b) but sometimes doesn't use either.
     
  19. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    David Grove wrote: "Do I now understand correctly that using a dye transfer print process for material derived from separating a single color negative can (but not necessarily has to) produce quality comparable to (but qualitatively distinct from) true 3 strip?"

    Yes... and

    No.

    Technicolor's dye transfer process, although admittedly the finest that the industry has seen, was never perfect. Prints were produced unit by unit, with variations in color from print to print. Prints were graded for proper color, with the best generally going to the most important exchanges. Reprints for re-issues were, in many cases, notoriously poor, as no one went back to examine an original before printing. The 1970 prints of Lawrence were among the worst that I've seen, ranging in color from several points magenta to cyan and everything in between.

    The fact that something was photographed in three-strip Technicolor, or separated for printing from Eastman color negative to be printed via dye transfer did not guarantee high quality prints, although when the quality was being watched during production, prints of both the three-strip and EK variety could both be beautiful. Different in many ways, but beautiful.

    RAH
     
  20. David Grove

    David Grove Stunt Coordinator

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    Will,

    Thanks for your comment. That does sound familiar. I think, now that you refreshed my memory, that I read it before. Probably from RAH's column. I must go over to digitalbits and (re)read everything RAH had to say about Technicolor. Somehow, it didn't pique my interest upon first reading, as it does now. Can't explain that, but now it is utterly fascinating.

    Robert,

    So, (attempting to check my understanding, here) printing from separation masters CAN be just as good (although different to an experienced eye) as 3-strip. The bugaboo would seem to be that prints derived from 3-strip are not necessarily themselves always of uniformly consistent, highest quality. The "rubber ruler" thus makes my question less meaningful, and explains your answer of "yes and no".

    Am I understanding?

    Thank you.

    DG
     

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