Taken the Plunge II: The Revenge (1 Viewer)

[Mike Broadman]

Hey, now, we're not talking about my SACD player and discs!

Note to mods: the closing of the prequel to this thread was not my fault. Be nice.

Evan, I set the player to do the sound management. I didn't hear a noticeable difference, but I left it that way. I would point out that I'm nothing but pleased with the way my receiver handles sound management for all other devices, so maybe it just sounded particularly good the other way.

I also moved my cables around to try to settle that issue of 2-ch vs 6-ch input for 2-ch sound, but got no noticeable difference. I called customer service and asked if the two outputs used sperate op-amps, and they thought I was speaking some exotic foreign language. The guy actually said something like, "Well, sir, if you plug it into one amp, than you have one, but if you use two, then it's two." They said they would "research" it and I have to call them back.

The only reason I care is because my universal remote can't learn the "EXT 5.1" button from the receiver's remote for some reason. Definitely time for a new one.

I was in the record store today, but didn't buy anything. One must exercise some discipline, you know. It seems like there are more classical SACDs out there than anything else. Not that it's bad: I know I'll end up getting most of them anyway. Some juicy items I saw were SRV (Texas Flood), Miles Davis (Kind of Blue, Round Midnight, Sketches of Spain, and some live album), Alice in Chains' greatest hits (of course I would've prefered albums), and Glenn Gould performing Bach.

Some artists I would love to see on SACD:

King Crimson

Monk

Mingus

King Crimson

Rush

Led Zeppelin

King Crimson

Gustav Holst (Planets)

Also, they should totally release King Crimson.

Is anyone else able to pick out "mistakes" due to the higher quality sound? Right now, for example, I'm listening to Abraxas, which includes a couple of live tracks. I can hear a bit of amp feedback and recording flaws that I don't remembering noticing in the regular CD.

 

[Evan S]

Mike, I told the mods to close the other thread. Sorry, it was suppose to be a discussion about your new player and got way off course.

I called customer service and asked if the two outputs used sperate op-amps, and they thought I was speaking some exotic foreign language. The guy actually said something like, "Well, sir, if you plug it into one amp, than you have one, but if you use two, then it's two." They said they would "research" it and I have to call them back.

Still laughing at those comments, but sadly that's typical of most customer service experiences with big companies.
Mingus is on SACD. You can get Mingus Ah Um on SACD. Also there is some Monk available on this format.
Get the SRV. I've heard from others it sounds great and if it sounds half as good as my "Couldn't Stand The Weather" you won't be able to get it out of your player.

 

[KeithH]

Mike,
Congratulations on your purchase of the 'CE775. I just ordered one myself this morning from J&R Music World for $200. I am going to use it in stereo mode with certain multi-channel SACDs in my second stereo system. I already have a Sony SCD-C333ES stereo SACD changer in there (discontinued model), but it has a bug where it will mistrack to the multi-channel layer on some discs once in awhile, causing static to emanate from your speakers. I've had the 'C333ES since last April, and it has only acted up one time on one multi-channel SACD -- Mary Chapin Carpenter time*sex*love*. I just bought the Carpenter SACD yesterday at Circuit City, and everything was going fine, when I heard static all of a sudden. The only thing one can do is stop the disc. There is nothing really wrong with the player or the disc. It is just a bug that is inherent to the player. Although I expect this static problem to be rare on the 'C333ES, knowing that it could happen affects my enjoyment now, so I will use the 'CE775 for discs that have the potential to cause the static problem. I am just hoping that there is not too significant a drop-off in sound quality in going from the 'C333ES to the 'CE775 with SACDs. From everything I have read and based on what I have heard in stores, the 'CE775 is quite capable with SACDs, but is lacking as a CD player. I won't be using it with CDs. Anyway, enough about me.
I hope you continue to enjoy SACD. If you are looking for suggestions for quality titles, just ask. I have Mingus Ah Um and Stevie Ray Vaughan Couldn't Stand the Weather on SACD, and they sound great. Awesome performances there too.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Keith, could you please be a bit more specific as to why the 775 is lacking as a CD player? I did plan on using it mainly for that purpose (after all, I'm always going to have way more CDs than SACDs). Any info would be much appreciated, especially if I decide to return it.

Mingus' Ah Um is one of the greatest things ever recorded. Pure genius. You can bet your sweet can I'm getting that mother on SACD.

 

[KeithH]

Mike, I was commenting on the 'CE775 as a CD player mainly in comparison to the ES models, such as the 'C222ES and 'C555ES. Of course, they cost quite a bit more than the 'CE775, so one shouldn't be surprised if they sound better. Some people on this site have also said that similarly priced CD changers such the Denon DCM-370, Marantz CC4000, and Sony CDP-CA70ES are better than the 'CE775. I have listened to all of these changers, but not alongside the 'CE775. Those are some good changers for the money (though they have different sonic signatures), so I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the 'CE775. I will compare the 'CE775 to the 'C333ES that is in the same system. As an ES model, I would expect the 'C333ES to be better than the 'CE775, and I know someone who owns both players and has found that to be the case. I also have the 'C555ES and Denon '370 in my main system, and maybe I'll get around to comparing them to the 'CE775.

NP: Duran Duran Greatest pre-recorded minidisc on Sony MDS-JB930

 

[Emil Stoica]

Welcome to the fun and expensive world of SACD. You are in for a great time. I agree with your wanted listed although on the Holst Planets it is actually available on Multi CHannel SACD. It is a Japanese disc with the Japanese Symphony doing a good redition of this classic. It is available at www.hmv.co.jp/en
NP: Jerry Goldsmith : Christus Apollo SACD

 

[Mike Broadman]

I just picked up Mingus Ah Um (I didn't meant to buy anything today doc, honest. I'm a weak man).

Holy mother of cheese- this thing sounds fantabulicious! Ahu Um also happens to be one of my top 5 jazz albums of all time, so listening to this is extra-peachy-keen.

So far, it seems like jazz is benefiting most from the SACD sound format, although I only got one rock SACD so far. My SACD of Glenn Gould's performance of Bach's Goldberg Variations was stunning as well.

NP: the most beautiful and amazing album of all time, Mingus Ah Um, in glorious SACD. Better git it in yo soul, folks.

 

[KeithH]

Mike, great pick-up. I love Mingus Ah Um.
I think the SACDs of Mingus, Brubeck, and Miles classics as well as the long-out-of-print Duke Ellington Blues in Orbit Mobile Fidelity SACD sounds great. The analog masters are obviously of high quality. The same often can't be said about the masters for many classic rock albums. The SACD of The Byrds Greatest Hits beats the corresponding CD, but there is only so much SACD can achieve with inferior masters.

 

[Paul D Young]

I just want you to know:
Because of you guys, I ordered one too (CE775). I wasn't really ready yet and now I've got no money available for discs! I'm holding the HTF responsible for this!

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I'd definitely recommend two of the SACD's you mentioned, Texas Flood and Kind of Blue (2 of the three that I own. )
"Lenny", from TF, is one of the great musical moments. I've been listening to it at least one a week since 1983, and the SACD reveals even more of it, little inflections that mean so much. This is what God intended a Strat to sound like, and how he intended it to be played. Magnificent.
There's also a really cool version of "Roughest Place in Town" which had been released on the cd remaster...but not like this.
Everyone knows KOB, but this version really communicates in a way the cd cannot and which had been the exclusive province of the LP. The stridency I've always heard in Miles' mute is gone, but there's nothing lost, nothing softened. I know you're stereo, but the multichannel experience with this title is really special and subtle, perfectly executed, and recommended if you get the chance.
Funny how SACD seems an improvement in more than just "sound". Unlike all other audiophile "improvements", it really seems to let more music through.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Funny how SACD seems an improvement in more than just "sound". Unlike all other audiophile "improvements", it really seems to let more music through.

That's a great way of putting it. I totally got that feeling while listening to the Mingus disc.

I saw Kind of Blue in the store, and the sticker said it was single-layer multi-channel, but I seem to remember there being a hybrid version. Are there two versions of this, or am I just mistaken? I would definitely want both a multi-channel and stereo if they are available.

Keith, that's interesting about the classic rock masters. Like I said, I'm not feeling that much of an improvement with the Abraxas disc. Columbia seems to truly venerate their catalogue, restoring and releasing killer versions of their jazz music. I hope to see some Monk and Mahavishnu coming from them. Blue Note is another album that does a fantastic job with their catalogue. I'm a little dissappointed that I haven't seen any of their material on SACD yet. That would sound wonderful.

Does anyone have Blonde on Blonde? That, and Texas Flood are the two most enticing rock releases I've seen. Also, has anyone heard Alice in Chains' Greatest Hits?

Paul, welcome to the fold. Yeah, HTF suckered me into it as well. It's like a freakin' cult.

NP: Iron Maiden, Live at Donnington, CD

 

[Jack Gilvey]

As I understand it, single-layer multichannel SACD's will always include a dedicated stereo SACD track also. "Hybrid" discs are dual-layer, having both a regular "redbook" cd layer (for all of them) in addition to an SACD layer.

When listening to KOB, I can switch my receiver from the direct multichannel/5.1 inputs to the CD inputs and I hear the stereo version from my player's stereo outputs.

 

[Ryan Spaight]

Blonde on Blonde is an interesting case because it's a totally different mix than the currently available CDs. (Which were a different mix than the LPs, which had several different mixes over the years in different mono and stereo forms. There really is no definitive mix for this record, though a case could be made for the first issue mono.)
It is light-years beyond the CD (either standard or gold Mastersound). How much of that is SACD and how much is the new mix is anyone's guess, but there's gobs more bottom end and the highs are much smoother without being rolled off. Nice stuff.
Ryan
PS - I really like Texas Flood, too. I wish more new releases would flow out so I'd stop thinking the format's death was imminent. :frowning:

 

[KeithH]

Mike,

I have Blonde on Blonde on SACD, and I feel it is much better than the Sony MasterSound gold CD, which I also have. The mixes are different, but the SACD is much clearer anyway. I also have Alice in Chains Greatest Hits on SACD and CD. The SACD is much better, but I feel at least parts of this disc were remixed. Still, the CD doesn't come close to the SACD.

Jack,

The SACD format specifies that multi-channel discs will have discrete stereo tracks.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Thanks for the info on Dylan. Chalk up another to-buy item for me.

I just returned a SACD: Beethoven's 6th Symphony. There was hiss. I got nervous and proceeded to play snippets of all my SACDs, and heard no such hiss. I exchanged it for a Mozart disc and am having no problem. I seriously hope that the disc was just flawed.

Are there any particularly bad SACDs out there anyone has come across?

 

[KeithH]

Mike, can you elaborate on the hiss you experienced? Was it intermittent or did you hear it all the time? Did you hear the hiss instead of or in addition to the music? I assume it wasn't the typical analog hiss that is common to older recordings. If you do pick up another copy of the Beethoven 6th Symphony SACD, hopefully it will work out better for you.

I'm not sure what you mean by "bad" SACDs. Do you mean bad-sounding? Some SACDs certainly sound worse than others. It comes down to original recording quality and the quality of the master (how it survives over the years for older recordings, etc.). It has been said by some that Aerosmith Just Push Play is a terrible-sounding SACD. I have heard that the CD is sonically poor too. Within my SACD collection, a few that sound poor relative to other SACDs are Meatloaf Bat Out of Hell, The Concert for New York City, The Byrds Greatest Hits, Billy Joel The Stranger and 52nd Street, Carole King Tapestry, Bob Dylan Blonde on Blonde, and Kenny Loggins Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow: The Greatest Hits of Kenny Loggins. I feel all of these sound better than the corresponding CDs, but they are not by any means my best-sounding SACDs. Note that many of those titles are older recordings, so one shouldn't expect them to compare to some newer recordings.

 

[Mike Broadman]

The hiss on the Beethoven disc was all the time- with the music, not instead of. It wasn't the kind of background hum or noise you normally experience with music when the volume is turned up. It wasn't even that bad, but the fact that I was noticing it bothered me. This is a supposed to be a superior sound format, and I don't want anything SACD that doesn't sound great.

What I meant by "bad" SACDs is like the sort of thing I had with this disc- the sonice equivalent of a bad DVD transfer. It is possible that it was just that copy of the Beethoven disc that was defective; or it could be the title. In contrast, I played Glenn Gould performing solo piano, and I didn't hear anything outside of his crystal-clear playing.

As for the age of the recording, the other classical discs I got sound wonderful, and they are older recordings. Of course some discs will be better than others, but as long as it's done right (with no goddamn hissing), I'm happy.

 

[KeithH]

Mike, I don't have the Beethoven SACD in question, but I imagine the hiss is to be expected. It is an older recording, and with a higher-resolution format like SACD, you get more of the recording, both good and bad. I don't have the CD either, but it wouldn't surprise if the hiss were more pronounced on the SACD.

I can't think of any SACDs in my collection that are overly "hissy".

 

[Jack Gilvey]

That Beethoven disc is one I'll likely grab, the Pastoral is my all-time favorite. I don't consider tape hiss to be a bother, it's expected from the older sources. In fact, it's much preferable to applying something like that "No-Noise" process which robs the music of vitality. I think that's what they did to the horrid Beatles cd's. A "perfect" medium will deliver the master to my listening room...if there's some hiss, so be it.

The degree of obtrusiveness of tape hiss also is very contingent on a system's' tonal balance, some tweeters peak right in the wrong place with certain discs.

How was the recording/performance aside from the hiss?

 

[Mike Broadman]

If the issue is the age of the recording, why do my other older classical CDs not hiss? If it's just the way the master is, well, that's a shame. I already have the 6th symphony on CD which sounds better without the hiss.

Jack, I'm sorry, I didn't listen to much of it, so I can't say anything about the performance. I noticed the hiss right away and just skipped around the disc before I took it out and returned it.