Syndicated shows, when cutting started? (1 Viewer)

[James 'Tiger' Lee]

When BBC2 showed The Simpsons in the UK, episodes were always uncut. Now, on Channel 4, they are the heavily syndicated versions. Makes me mad!!!

 

[jdee28]

By the early 90s, networks started making their shows syndicated length, 46 minutes, so less butchering would be done when the shows would later go into syndication, is that right?

Also, with The Honeymooners on WPIX, I remember watching "The Classic 39" and thinking these shows were very badly edited. I blamed the station, but then, I remember watching the uncut versions on VHS and realizing the edits were done on the original broadcast! Apparently, when the show was filmed, it was performed live in a theater, with no interruptions or respect given to the length of the show. They'd perform the scene, and if it went over, it went over; the editor would have to later cut some jokes and lines out of the film to make it fit the 25 minute time slot, sans commercials. It was a thankless job as the simplicity of the show, with its minimal backgrounds and camerwork, made any cuts to the film glaringly stand out. It would be great if those cut pieces were still around, so we'd be able to see the Honeymooners uncut as those in the theater saw it when it was originally filmed, but since the cuts were made at the time of the original production, I'm sure they are long gone; they probably didn't keep "deleted scenes" back then. There was a book though, The Honeymooners Treasury, where the authors had access to the original scripts and printed the dialogue that would have been seen in those pieces that were cut for time.

 

[Kevin L McCorry]

When CBC-TV was running Space: 1999 in '76-'78, I found that when an episode was repeated, scenes I'd not seen before would appear while other scenes I'd known to be in the initial broadcast of an episode were gone. The film would be physically cut and the audio would drop out for a second after the splice. Unless the edit was right after a commercial break, in which case the deletion would be seamless. In some episodes, the same scenes were cut on every broadcast. CBC's print of the episode, "Black Sun", always was without the scene of Koenig and Bergman talking about why they think the Alphans have survived as long as they have. About 2 minutes were cut from each episode when shown. When missing footage was reinstated, it was spliced back in, with jumps at both edit points. When CBHT-TV Halifax repeated Space: 1999 in 1983 using the same film prints, I could see where all of the edits had been. Though CBHT did its own cutting on that run, as well. This was nothing compared to how episodes were shown in the U.S.. WUAB Cleveland transferred episodes to video and removed 4 minutes from each episode, always the same scenes missing on each broadcast. And the butcher extraordinaire was WPIX New York, which deleted 6 minutes from the epsiodes. Always the same scenes. And this was back in the '70s and early '80s. The edits done by WPIX were with film splices. It's amazing episodes made any sense at all and is no surprise why the show didn't do better than it did in the U.S. market. I was told that every time an episode was shown on KICU San Jose, it was shorter. I think Space: 1999 was the first of the syndicated TV shows to be cut in this way. YTV always maintained that it didn't edit or time compress episodes of Space: 1999 between 1990 and 1992. Probably it was ITC Canada that did it on YTV's request.

By the early '80s, I was noticing cuts to episodes of Dallas on CBC. As with Space: 1999, film splices and momentary audio dropout were telltale signs.

Paramount released edited-down episodes on video of Star Trek in 1984 to replace film prints in circulation. I remember the changeover on WVII-TV Bangor between "Turnabout Intruder" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in February of '84. The picture quality improved but 4 to 5 minutes were gone from all episodes. With an additional commercial break artificially added.

 

[Bert Greene]

One thing I recall about cuts of syndicated material in the 70s was that it was more likely 'big-city' markets that would snip things out, like the end tags and such. They'd do so to make room for more commercials or often little local newsbreaks at the top of the hour. But, in smaller-markets, you were much, much more likely to see complete prints of things. As I grew up primarily in a smaller-market area, I almost always saw syndicated reruns complete (the exception to this were old-movies which were chopped up to fit into a 90-minute afternoon movie slot... those cuts were often pretty brutal!).

 

[Mark Y]

One of my friends used to call this "sneaky editing." Before that, a lot of times a station would make their own cuts (or if you were lucky, they wouldn't cut a show). Because they were working with 16mm film, this would mean losing a whole scene (like an end tag, etc.) and if you could find versions from different stations, you sometimes could reconstruct the whole episode -- but the party was over when the industry started going to precut tapes, because it would be the same edits everywhere. And it was "sneaky editing," with a line here, a line there, where if you weren't paying attention, you might not know what was missing. Which I'm sure was the original intention in the first place.

 

[Professor Echo]

This is exactly right and may explain why the OP has not noticed it in a show like THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW. If you watch TAGS on TV Land and you know the series by heart, which I do, you can spot this "sneaky editing" all over the episode.

That specific series falls prey to this type of cutting because it was based in mood and atmosphere every bit as much as situation and comedy. Thus there were plenty of superficial bits of business that were irrelevant to the plot at hand, but greatly enhanced the impression that Mayberry and everybody in it was REAL. That show was one of the pioneers of having a running continuity and in so doing, a sense that it was more than just a TV show. I think it's that approach that has endeared it to folks all these decades. To watch it in syndication for the last twenty years is to see a really truncated version of all this, one which completely negates what made the idea and ideal of it all so fresh and special back in 1960.

 

[DeWilson]

Ever notice the editing on THE TWILIGHT ZONE - whole scenes are cut!

Skillful editing is the editing of lines in scenes - scene cutting is just being lazy.

 

[Michael Rogers]

I have someone's recording of Space:1999 "War Games" from WPIX and the chunk edited from that show is after John and Helena were going to the Alien planet and Victor says something like "Say hello to the planet" on the black and white eagle screen and then they cut to the scene when John and Alan are being bombarded by the planets energy rings(the first thing you see after the edit is the energy rings) and the Eagle blows up. Everything in between those two scenes is cut out

 

[Kevin L McCorry]

I think the "sneaky edit" practice was starting around 1983 or 1984 with the start of the edited videotapes of Star Trek making the rounds to TV stations. It had become possible to remove bits and pieces thru episodes, reducing episode length by 4 or more minutes but without making the episode incomprehensible. I have to credit the editors of Star Trek for their ingenuity at removing 4 minutes from each episode right across the board and adding an extra commercial break without harming the narrative of any episode. Mind, some of the transitions to commercials were at naff places, like in "Space Seed" where Marla McGivers is coming into Sickbay to talk to Khan. Big dramatic freeze frame on her and fade out. Other commercial breaks, though, were at perfectly logical places like in "The Omega Glory" right before Kirk and Tracey are to fight to the death. Some of the edited-down episodes were erroneously released to home video in the '90s. Some heads must have rolled on account of that.

It was after 1984 that syndication on videotape really took off. And with it cuts for length or content. I became aware of an edit to a M*A*S*H episode where a nurse throws a pot of fudge at a door after Maj. Houlihan gave her a tongue-lashing. The throwing of the pot was gone but in a later scene the door was stained at where the pot had been thrown.

Even the cartoons on the network Bugs Bunny shows started being edited sneakily on videotape, most of those for content but some for length.

 

[Kevin L McCorry]

I had 2 episodes sent to me by someone who'd taped them off of WPIX. "The Metamorph" and "Space Warp" as I recall. The scene removal was staggering. And the commercial breaks were included in full. 3 minutes of commercials in every break. Crazy!

 

[Michael Rogers]

I'd love to see those. I don't know where my recording of "War Games" went.

 

[Regulus]

You can always wait for DeeDees or The Big River to have one of their sales. Last year I got the Space 1999 Megaset for less than 30 Bucks during one of DeeDee's BOGO Sales!

 

[Michael Rogers]

Thanks Rugulus, but you misunderstand. I got all the Space:1999 DVD sets as they came out.

The reason why I would love to have seen those Kevin's two recordings is because they are old WPIX broadcasts where I could see the old commercials and look back at how we used to have to see reruns of older shows.

 

[Kevin L McCorry]

"The Metamorph"- Mentor says, "Prepare the Alphan pilots." And then a cut to Koenig & Carter at the controls of Eagle 4 and Koenig notifying Mentor they're at rendezvous point. We miss Dr. Russell talking with Annette Fraser in Medical, the Eagle 4 crew embarking the Eagle, the Eagle lifting off and heading for Psychon, Mentor and Maya observing the Eagle on their screen. And then in Act II, there's a cut from Torens' mind being drained to the Eagle 4 crew finding the creatures in the caves. Scene on Alpha with Tony, Sahn, and Annette cut. In Act 3, the whole scene of Annette protesting Directive Four was gone. Anouska Hempel should sue WPIX for removing almost all her scenes! And then in Act 4, after the commercials, Maya is scanning the robot Eagle. The solemn countdown scene is gone. ... Most of the commercials were for New York businesses. I only remember one. In fey voice a pair of men go: "Who's J. Antonio? We're J. Antonio. Our accessories are... stunningggggggggg. Because we always have women on our mind."

"Space Warp" was missing a vast chunk of material at start of Act 2. We don't see Security looking for Maya, Vincent finding Helena on the floor in Medical, or Alan changing his shoot-to-kill order. And the debate at start of Act 3 over whether to operate on Maya was gone. As was Alan and Helena leaving airlock in the Moonbuggy in Act 4.

 

[Elena S]

As stringent as copyright laws are, how is it that the practice of butchering shows has never been outlawed? Isn't the original work preserved in some way? If I had participated in a program that was later hacked to bits I would be livid. I am really surprised that producers, directors and writers haven't been able to get some law passed to put an end to the travesty.

 

[FanCollector]

Usually, when producers or actors own part of a show, they get profit participation, but not controlling interest, so they get their part of the money (hopefully), but the studio makes the decisions about it. For example, Universal licensed all its shows to CBS in the 70s for the CBS Late Movie. The shows were cut by literally 30-40%. The producers were upset, but they only owned small percentages of the shows, so Universal could decide what the conditions of the licensing were.

Norman Lear, who did own the shows in his case, tried to take a stand by saying the local stations could just calculate the money they would lose by not cutting three minutes out of each All in the Family, and then paying him that much less for the shows. The unions, however, erupted because the residuals would also be that much less and they said Lear had no right to negotiate away other people's money along with his own.

 

[MatthewA]

Most of the time the uncut versions do exist...in the studio vault. It is only now that the studios have seen anything resembling incentive to make them available to the public that way. The very concept of the masses owning copies of episodes of TV shows is less than 10 years old (yes, I know about, and own some of, Columbia House's releases and furtive releases of shows on VHS and Laserdisc, but those were niche at best).

As much as I would like to put a stop to the cutting in any medium, a law would be unenforceable. It would also prevent director's cuts of movies, and not just things like George Lucas redoing Star Wars films on a whim, but those who were robbed of control of the project by the studios and saw their work butchered who would have the chance to rectify the situation after the fact.

The copyright owners legally have a right to do what they want with these works. In the legal sense there's nothing stopping them from destroying these shows.

From a ratings standpoint, no one would stop watching reruns of, say, The Andy Griffith Show if TV Land were to start showing uncut versions. But those who refuse to watch cut versions might tune into uncut ones, if it was made clear in promotion that they were. Except that they can already do that on DVD.

 

[elec08]

That's odd, because no TV show entitled "Little House in the Prairie" ever existed.

 

[Carabimero]

I hope I'm never so desperate for attention, and have such low self-esteem, that I have to resort to (repeatedly) correcting others' typos to make me feel like I'm somebody.

 

[elec08]

I thought I was on ignore.