SVS Ultras. One or Two? Maybe even B-4+ (1 Viewer)

[Mike Sloan]

What would be the reason to get the B4 instead of 4 Ultras's? I already have purchased the Crown K2 and have been wondering myself which way I should go? According to Tom V:4 Ultras would match or exceed the B4’s capabilities. From about 25hz and up…it would be very close. But

 

[John Doran]

mike,

i guess it depends on your priorities - for instance, 4 ultras will run you $3600, while the B4 costs only $2499. what's more, i'm not sure if a K2 would be able to drive all four ultras, so you might have to invest in another amp if you went with the cylinders.

similarly, 4 ultras will occupy more space than a single B4 - not only does the B4 present a lower profile in terms of volume, but the B4 has a slightly smaller footprint.

which leads into placement issues - where can you place the ultras? if you are limited, then you might find that having 4 sources of bass generate difficulties with room nodes - i.e. room gain and room loss.

and do you have a preference as between the looks of either a box or a cylinder?

in terms of performance, i suppose it will depend on just how much of an edge the B4 loses to the 4 ultras below 25hz, and how much you're willing to pay as a premium to get that edge. even tuned to 16hz, i can get at least close to reference levels from the B4 at my listening position, which is 11 feet away from the sub (i may be able to get reference or higher, i don't know - i haven't tried to find the limits of the thing. i suspect my eyes would get pushed through the back of my head before i reached them, though.....)

personally, if i had between $4500 and $5000 to spend on subs (assuming you'd need to get another amp for the 4 ultras), i would not hesitate to pay a little extra for 2 B4's. now that would be something...

but really, either way - B4 or 4 ultras - it is impossible for you to go wrong.

- jd

 

[Mike Sloan]

Hi John,
The K2 will supply 1250 Watts per channel at 2ohm's. If I run the Ultra's in parralell/2 per channel they will present a 2ohm load to the amp(per channel)....thats alot of power! I would place all 4 Ultras in the same corner. I don't have any WAF (my wife has given up when it comes to anything audio)...so the more intrusive the better! Crown $1400.00/SVS B4...$2500=$3900.00...probably run an additional $500 or so to get the Ultra,s. Hard decision..How is the finishing detail on the B4. Can you get real Mahogany(etc) veneer or is it the stain that determines color....if that makes any sense? I have a friend that has (4)HSU 1220HO's powered by a Crown K2...It is awesome! That's what made me initially think of doing (4) Ultra's!!!! Decisions,decisions????

 

[Mike Sloan]

I just looked at the pictures of the B4 again....I really love the way it looks...very elegant! Has there been any discussion on grill covers for the drivers on the outside of the cabinet. I have prying fingers in my household....makes me nervous!

 

[John Doran]

hi mike,

well, if you already have a K2, you wouldn't need to get amplification for the B4, so you're still paying about $1100 less for the B4, no?

be that as it may, the finish of the B4 is simply gorgeous. if you give me your email address, i'll send you some pictures of it in my living room.

and i believe you can get different veneers for the B4 - that, at least, was what tom told me when i ordered mine about 2 months ago. i have no idea if policy has changed since then. maybe email tom. i also believe that getting different veneers will cost more.

but the stain is, as i say, beautiful, so i'm not sure what percentage there is in changing the actual grain of the wood, at least in terms of price-point and returns on your incremental investment.

i understand your position on this, though - i was in the same boat, and it was tom that helped me decide on the B4. i have no WAF problem, either, and what really did it was combination of the lower cost of the B4 as well as the idea of owning the single premiere (retail) sub money can buy.

but, again, you can't go wrong either way.

- jd

 

[Dean Mar]

For those who don't have the time or skills for DIY subwoofers, there is a new option available here.
These subwoofers will compete with anything in the retail world and at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Mike Sloan]

john,

Nice pictures...came through great! Is that a Salamander design entertainment center? Could you send me a shot of your system? It also looks like you went with Deftech BP2000's....AWESOME! thanks again!

Mike Sloan

 

[John Doran]

mike,

glad you got them.

yeah - it's a salamander and bp2000tl's. i'm actually selling the def techs to a friend of mine along with my receiver, and upgrading. maybe i'll send you before and after pictures.

let me know how you come out on the ultras/B4 thing.

take it easy.

- jd

 

[Ron_L]

the QSC's are a better amp IMHO

The MXa Series is a bulletproof amp. Heavy, but rocksolid in performance.

If you want an amp that will drive the B4-4 with no hesitation, pick up a used QSC Ex-4000 off of Ebay. These do sell between 800-1200US.

 

[Mike Sloan]

Dean Mar,
I took a look at the "everest" with (2) Tumults and (4) passive radiators. Looks alot like the Stryke 15.4 design. Do you think it would have better performance than a B4 with (4) active 12" drivers?

 

[Robert_Gaither]

First of all Demas happy birthday, but I'm in the same boat as you about Diy if a person is wanting the ultimate bang for the buck in most of their theater gear (being speakers that is). I also can agree with John on his POV (I made a similar statement yesterday at the Diy forum; tools, time, interest, and possibly health are all things to consider also).

I personally believe that products offered by SVS (ie the B4), Kyle, or Stryke (the dual HE15 with four PRs) are the way I'd go if I didn't do it myself. For the more cost effective route dealing with Adire, HSU, SVS, VMPS, Kyle, Brian, Stryke, and ACI for a qualtiy product are also considerations as well. Remember not everyone has that Diy drive to build things in the long run and personally if you only build one sub then it may be cheaper to actually but a sub built by someone else, but because of "upgraditus" those tools sure do come in handy for the next step.

PS: I had to edit this post after checking the line at his site and noticing this thread now being two pages. Kyle I'm definitely impressed but are the Keiga amps availble at your site (didn't see them listed)?

 

[Demas]

4 Ultras would match or exceed the B4’s capabilities. From about 25hz and up…it would be very close. But

 

[John Doran]

In terms of output, have you ever trained the B4+ at full reference?

yeah - i've had the B4 at about reference level. it's just unbelievable. i had no idea what totally clean, deep bass would sound like at those volumes. it's breathtaking.

- jd

 

[Demas]

it's just unbelievable. i had no idea what totally clean, deep bass would sound like at those volumes. it's breathtaking.

Just shows what clean bass can do, even at reference level.What type of mains do you have?I personally have never listened at reference level, but most people complain that it's too loud and such.

I think that once the speaker has no dynamic compression then reference volume would be very clean and not *too* loud.Could you describe what's happening to your house at this reference volume, furniture, windows, babies and hamsters........etc.

 

[John Doran]

hi demas,

i currently have def tech bp2000tl's for mains, but i'm about to sell them to a friend and upgrade.

and you're totally right about reference levels when they're reproduced without distortion - they become very non-fatiguing, comfortable, and very listenable; my wife, who used to hate it when we watched movies really loudly, now doesn't mind at all.

which can be kind of dangerous, at least to the old pocketbook, because now i'd love to get another B4...

and i have no idea if anything is shaking or rattling in my room, because i simply can't hear anything over the HT. at least nothing's fallen off shelves or off the walls.

we'll see how the baby deals with it when it arrives any day now...

- jd

 

[Robert_Gaither]

we'll see how the baby deals with it when it arrives any day now...

Must not be much of a sub... if it didn't shake the kid out.

 

[John Doran]

it's a good point....

but maybe it's just too scared to come out; imagine if your first real taste of the outside world was the balrog in LOTR roaring at about 110db...

- jd

 

[Martice]

BYPASS

 

[Demas]

Must not be much of a sub... if it didn't shake the kid out.

That's the most beautiful thing i've ever heard.But seriously the baby will cry like there's no tommorrow, with the excessive sub-20hz tones caressing the infant, and the fact that high volume, and subsonic frequencies don't mix well, and could lead to frequent expelling of food, so avoid any parties if possible


John, Robert, this is a bit off topic, but have you ever heard the Paradigm studio 40's?If so, could they be capable of reference level playback especially when used with a high-passed filter(80hz).Either these speakers or the M&K 750's thx select are possible options, and will be a day and a half difference over my mini-hifi system.I want a B4+ now..........or 8 av15's IB.


Demas

 

[Robert_Gaither]

I've heard pretty much all the Paradigms and the 40s can easily reach theater levels in most rooms imho if the mating electronics are up for it (will sound shrill and bright without enough power, as most speakers will). I think a better set of speakers is the Ascend 170 which to me was cheaper and seemed greater in detail though it was also slightly brighter to me as well (of course take this in context that these were in two different rooms, different electronics, and of course based on memory with levels most likely not matched since I personally didn't calibrate the Paradigms).

Actually with low bass there has been reports that some will suffer slightly from heart palpitations (a friend of mine's ex-girlfriend's cat would go into seizures when we ran test tones, poor thing, it took a few times before we figured out what made it do it that) and I would never suggest exposing someone who couldn't speak or move away if I knew I was going to play a loud volumes for a long period of time. Of course ealier I was only joking about the ability of the sub but if did induce birth by vibrations, I'd suggest SVS to raise the price higher and use it for marketting.