SVS Ultra Bottoming Question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by John Cain, Sep 15, 2001.

  1. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    I was interested more in the 16-46 SVS Subs because my wife and I love Telarc type Classical Organ music.
    I was concerned that this sub (16-46) seemed fairly easy to bottom out.
    I am wondering now about the new Ultra sub, and wondering how it compares in terms of volume for more frequently used frequency ranges say 20-40 and how it compares wiht bottoming out on stuff below 20Hz. I am interested in a single Ultra.
    Many thanks for all replies, and I am interested to hear from anyone who owns one of these subs.
    Take care,
    -- John
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  2. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    I have previously owned a pair of 20-39cs and was able to accidentally bottom them out a few times, most notibly on the beginning of TS2. I now have the Ultra and have never bottomed it out. Possibly, the reason is that the Ultra is so powerful that I never wanted to turn up the level to the point where bottoming would begin. The Ultra is capable of playing very loudly without bottoming.
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    Take Care,
    merc
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    DFAST, 5C, DVI, HDCP, SafeAudio, Macrovision and Lewinski!!!
     
  3. John_RK

    John_RK Extra

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    I received my single Ultra a few weeks ago and have demoed every low-bass scene in my DVD collection. I have also listened to lots of music, but not the low-note organ music you mentioned. I have a 6000 cu ft room and I listen at high volume, but NOT reference level (that's just TOO loud for me).
    I agree with John above that Toy Story 2 provides the sternest test I've encountered. I was unaware what a sub "bottoming out" sounds like, but there was such an intense rattling at the beginning of TS2, I was afraid I had bottomed the sub. Turns out it was just my windows rattling VERY hard. The weak link in bass production for me is definitely not the sub, but the room itself.
    Bottom line...so far, I have not bottomed out the Ultra even when producing bass that was so powerful it was LITERALLY scary. BTW, as I posted to the SVS guys, the sub does an equally impressive job on Steely Dan as it does U-571. You will probably be happy with any of the SVS subs, but I can personally vouch for the Ultra...it's amazing!
     
  4. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Thanks for the replies folks.
    My room is about 3,000 cu feet, for background info. No windows just a dedicated HT/music room.
    I was looking at the SVS last Spring, but decided against them because I cannot fit two of them into my corner, and also the model I felt I would prefer was apparently fairly easy to bottom out, so this is good info for me.
    Take care,
    -- John
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  5. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    One more question guys.
    Does the Ultra have one or two Voice coils??
    In other words, Can I bridge my amp or do I need to run it in Stereo mode to power two Voice coils??
    And it is 8, 4, or 2 Ohms ??
    Thanks!!
    -- John
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    [Edited last by John Cain on September 15, 2001 at 08:59 AM]
     
  6. Shanthi

    Shanthi Stunt Coordinator

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    Has anybody compared with dual 20-39 with the CS_U in bottoming out?
    Thanks
     
  7. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    John Morris, above, has done this with favorable results.
    -- John
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  8. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    John,
    Single 4 ohm voice coil.
    And while you can put a LOT of power to it, you CAN bottom a CS-Ultra. It's hard to do if your amp is staying clean but it can be done.
    Adding an equalizer that filters out some of the subsonic info below say 15Hz can help much in allowing you to put even more into the sub. The ART 351 allows this, which is one reason we recommend it for the CS-Ultra and the CS lines.
    Ron
     
  9. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Thx Ron for the info. I have an old Adcom GFA-555 amp laying around and wanted to bridge it to use. I believe that will be a terrific match for the SVS Ultra Sub.
    I was aware that the Ultra could be bottomed out, I was just trying to see if it was harder to bottom out than the 16-46 is when listening to music and HT.
    One more question, does the Ultra have a similar low end to the 16-46 ??? As I mentioned my wife and I like Classical Music and are big Saint-Saens fans..
    Thanks again for the help and info,
    -- John
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    [Edited last by John Cain on September 15, 2001 at 12:25 PM]
     
  10. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    John: Even though I have not bottomed out my Ultra, I have carefully calibrated its' level and am using a Symetrix 551E parametric EQ to both level out the peaks and subsonic filter everything under 15Hz as Ron mentioned above. The triple nickel that you are thinking of using puts out 850w into 4 ohms, bridged, so you will have the capability to hurt the Ultra if you tried or weren't careful when you first install it. You WILL absolutely love this sub for classical music playback but should probably use a low pass around 60Hz or no higher than 80Hz to eliminate any directionality of those bass notes.
    Good Luck and Enjoy!!!
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    Take Care,
    merc
    ----------------
    DFAST, 5C, DVI, HDCP, SafeAudio, Macrovision and Lewinski!!!
     
  11. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Does the ART 351 Equalizer allow you to pick a threshold frequency, then filter out sounds below that???
    If it does, what frequencies can you pick??
    I guess I'd prefer to set it to filter everything below 10Hz. See how it works, then try 15Hz and see how that works.
    Also, can one buy just a subsonic filter somewhere for not-too-much $$$$$$ ???
    Thanks for the info,
    -- John
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  12. Gordon B

    Gordon B Agent

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    Yes the ART can do this. I just received my single Ultra/Samson 1000/ART 351 equalizer package. I am still in the process of testing/calibrating and have not hooked the equalizer up yet. The ART does have a high pass filter that lets you roll off lower frequencies. Its range is from 10 Hz to 250 Hz.
    he knob that controls the high pass filter gives you more precise control at the low end of this range than at the higher end. The knob rotates from 10 Hz (approximately 5:00 on the knob) to 15 (10:00) to 40 (12:00) and on around to 250 at about 6:00. This makes sense since most people are going to be using the lower end and need more control and precision there.
    I hooked up my sub and amp and roughly calibrated using my Denon 4800 test tones. I then played U571 (bottomed out in the opening depth charge scene) and Toy Story 2 (bad death rattle during opening sequence).
    I was playing both scenes at very loud levels ( I was so paniced I didn't record volume level) in a room of roughly 10,000 cubic feet. I recalibrated at 85 dB using AVIA and replayed both scenes at 5 dB below reference level without any bottoming out. I plan on trying refernce level tomorrow or Monday and also plan to use the ART to see if I can get some more SPL without the bottoming out. It was still pretty loud in my very large room at 5 dB below refence. I managed to rattle the mirrors in the master bath on the other side of the house.
    I am hoping the ART can help me tame a few spikes largely due to a resonating wall and the large room with a lot of odd angles and sloping ceilings. I have a big spike between 35 and 40 Hz.
    GB
     
  13. Curtis_Edwards

    Curtis_Edwards Stunt Coordinator

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    I wonder how the ART 351 compares to the Symmetrix 551?
     
  14. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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    In case you need any more input on a 16-46CS versus a CS-Ultra, here's part of a reply TV sent me in response to a similar question I had asked him concerning these two subs. Note that my room is 13x20x8:
     
  15. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Gordon,
    Thanks for details on the EQ. It sounds as if it would be invaluable.
    Doug,
    Thx for the info 16-46 vs CS-Ultra. That is exactly what I was wondering.
    My room is 18x19x8.7, so I'll guess my mileage would be similar.
    Thanks gang,
    -- John
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  16. Shanthi

    Shanthi Stunt Coordinator

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    This is what Tom got back to me for the same question I asked him.
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    For a good DVD/music system..the dual 20-39cs/S700 package
    really offers our best cost/performance ratio. In your room(about 2500 cu-ft), you get VERY low extension(< 20hz) and very clean,tight musical bass....that will kick you in the chest and suck the wind out of your lungs
    when it's supposed to during DVD enjoyment... [​IMG]
    This packages was recently measured by Tom Nousaine and he found it to have
    about the same performance as 3 velodyne HGS15s would($7500!).
    ---------------------
     
  17. Shanthi

    Shanthi Stunt Coordinator

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    I am going to go with dual 20-39cs with samson 700watts amp.
    I don't know if I need the ART 351 Equalizer or not?
     
  18. Ron Stimpson

    Ron Stimpson Stunt Coordinator

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    Shanthi,
    You don't "need" the ART 351 with that setup, but it adds so much flexibility in terms of room adjstment, low end boost (it can really be kick on some movies, and you can switch this in and out with one button), and the aforementioned subsonic filter that I can't imagine not using one.
    They are easily the best and most cost effective accessory to a CS setup.
    Nothing says you can't just run things up without the eq. and just get it down the road if you want to experiment more. Spending that much I'd recommend getting the whole smash up front.
    But then I would say that right?
    Ron
     
  19. John Cain

    John Cain Second Unit

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    Hi Ron my final two questions for you got lost above in Eq talk [​IMG]
    Can you or Tom answer these for me please??
    I was aware that the Ultra could be bottomed out, I was just trying to see if it was harder to bottom out than the 16-46 is when listening to music and HT.
    One more question, does the Ultra have a similar low end to the 16-46 ??? As I mentioned my wife and I like Classical Music and are big Saint-Saens Organ Symphony fans..
    The other Subs tell me their tuning frequency, but I cannot find the tuning freq for the CS-Ultra on the Web page.
    Many thanks in advance,
    -- John
    [Edited last by John Cain on September 16, 2001 at 01:00 PM]
     
  20. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Hi Ron my final two questions for you got lost above in Eq talk Can you or Tom answer these for me please?I was aware that the Ultra could be bottomed out, I was just trying to see if it was harder to bottom out than the 16-46 is when listening to music and HT.
     

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