SVS question. Opinions are appreciated!

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Dan Keefe, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. Dan Keefe

    Dan Keefe Second Unit

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    OK I'm starting from the bottom up...I am purchasing a sub first in my revamp of my Home theater.


    I have narrowed it down to SVS PB12 ultra and PB12/2 Plus...

    To me it looks like the PLUS has more power at the same price. What makes SVS think the ultra is their best sub? Anyone have opinions on which one to get...This will mainly be used for home theater. I personally am leaning toward the PLUS and will be ordering no later than the end of the week.


    Thanks in advance....


    Dan
     
  2. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    Since you say you're ordering this week, I would definitely go with the Plus. Historically the Ultra driver has been a pretty significant step above the Plus driver. However, SVS recently revamped their two lower-end drivers (Plus and NSD) and the Plus, in particular, is reported to be a great improvement. Upgrades to the Ultra have not come yet. If you were going to wait until the Ultra was upgraded you would have a more difficult decision, but I believe the Plus is close enough to the Ultra now that the 12/2Plus makes more sense.
     
  3. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

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    E-mail SVS and give all info,room size,furniture,carpeted,other audio stuff,everything and see what they say.
     
  4. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Dan

    I agree with Seth.

    Having said that, if you look at the 2 drivers next to each other, you would have an idea of why the Ultra driver has that name. The Ultra is just a massive unit. For HT use you should be very happy with the Plus/2.
     
  5. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    What makes us think the Ultra is the best?

    We designed it, we listen to it and we measure it. I'd say that covers it. ;^)

    Have the latest Plus upgrades narrowed the gap? Yes, certainly, no question. Is the Ultra still the top dog? Yes, ditto. Are we working hard to really put the Ultra a league ahead? Right again, but it's proving far more difficult, expensive, and time consuming than we imagined (so good are the latest iterations of the Ultra woofer that it's just not a simple thing to improve upon, and, we don't want a mild improvement, we want to (and having seen early examples am confident we will) blow people away.

    The Ultra products marketed by typical traditional OEMs would be twice what we charge as it is, so it's only expensive relative to our other models.

    No matter what it is, cars, wine, food, football tickets, etc, if you want "the best" it's usually not wise to try and rationalize "is this really worth it?" sorts of questions. Either you can afford the best and trust the brand (restaurant, winery, stadium etc) to deliver the goods or not. Frankly anyone struggling with this sort of question (get the most capable, technically superior, sonically refined, durable and exclusive product in a given price point) shouldn't get the Ultra. If you are stuggling, then you are probably more likely to weigh "value" (price for a given level of performance) than might be realized. In that case, the Plus products are THE best choice. They are unquestionably the better value compared to the Ultra.

    A Porsche Boxter is a perfectly capable car, but people pony up much more for that "S" badge on the back and a few more ponies under the hood. Corvette and the Z06? Same thing. $20 will get you some killer bottles of Merlot, but drop $40 and choose wisely, and you are likely to go from "wow" to "oh my God, I'm not moving from this spot, and aren't you drinking vodka dear??".

    Life is like that. SVS products are like that. You get more when you pay more (Caution: This is often not true and you will be sorely disappointed in "life" if you assume that merely paying more will get you better stuff. Within a given brand or OEM this is generally true, but once you start comparing cross brand price/performance ratio's you quickly find that plenty of companies will take all the money you are willing to give them and provide little in return for that trust and money. Others have a different set of values when it comes to pricing premium gear.).

    So are the Plus better subs? No. Just better for the money. An Ultra of similar design (I mean same number of woofers now) will be a bit stronger, a bit more durable, subtle, heavier, more exclusive. They are the "_____ est: ... those Ultras, pretty much in every regard.

    In the case you cite, you get performance from a single Ultra driver in a significantly smaller enclosure (3" less deep and 1" shorter is nothing to sneeze at) which, in the popular 20hz tune is only going to lag its dual Plus driver rival by a bit. So when size is more an issue than cost, or "n-th degree" performance, the PB12-Ultra is really an attractive choice, as is its cylinder brother the PC-Ultra (which is not a rival in performance to the other two subs, but takes up a mere 16" circle of floor space).

    So if you are looking for max performance for the money, size be damned, then the Plus/2 is the way to go. If you are OK with somewhat less grunt, but like the idea of having the most refinement and a somewhat (or very much) smaller footprint in your room, then Ultra subs are your product.

    "If you have the means" as Ferris Bueller said.

    Ron
    SVS
     
  6. TimJC

    TimJC Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Ron,

    You have me scratching my head here when you say the PC Ultra is not a rival in performance to the other 2 subs. Confused now.


    Tim
    [​IMG]
     
  7. HD Guy

    HD Guy Auditioning

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    Really? Someone from SVS gave me the impression that there was a BIG difference between the Ultra and the Plus/2, not just "a bit" as Ron mentioned here. Which is it? A big difference, or just a bit?
     
  8. Dan Keefe

    Dan Keefe Second Unit

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    SVS-Ron preet much nailed my thoughts... I appreciate everyones opinions and answers.

    Ron did accurately come to the right conclusion about value and bang for my buck. He realized this apparently by the fact I was choosing between the ultra single and the dual plus.

    If I was getting just a sub, I would go for the dual ultra, but I have pretty much narrowed my search for the rest of my set up to something in the axiom line(we'll discuss that later this week or maybe tonight if I decide which ones)

    But I am going to email Ron here shortly with room dimensions just to be sure.
    maybe the Ultra dual is the way to go but it does cost signifigantly more...So I'll see what Ron says...

    I will say that i have been looking for about 3 months and silently scouring these threads in the process. I thought it would be easy to nail down a sub once I decided on SVS(which was practically a no brainer) but alas, they have sooooo many choices. I became like the kid in the candy store...Its never a bad thing to have so many awesome choices that's for sure, but it has been driving me nuts.


    Thanks again everyone


    Dan
     
  9. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    Get the one that will most likely make you want to upgrade later! You know you'll want to, so you might as well make that decision easy for yourself when the time comes!!

    e.g. Let's say you buy a single Ultra. Then in a few months when the new Ultra comes out, you'll want that. But it will be hard to justify because you already have a great sub (which you spent a good bit of cash on), and it pretty much does what you need it to. You'll ask yourself (and this forum), "how much better could the new Ultra be??" And regardless of any user hype or marketing blurbs, you'll struggle with this decision. Now, if you had just gotten a Plus/2 or eve a single Plus, then you can tell yourself, "oh, this will be a huge step up, and I won't lose that much of my investment when I sell my current sub!"

    Anyways, just my thoughts on the scenario. Good luck!
     
  10. Dan Keefe

    Dan Keefe Second Unit

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    It is done.....


    went with the Plus/2...now the waiting comes. Two things made me choose SVS by the way...number one they sponsor our forum....number two...made in USA. That is in addition to being an ass kicking sub!! [​IMG]
     
  11. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

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    Thought you were e-mailing to see what they said or did you?
     
  12. Dan Keefe

    Dan Keefe Second Unit

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    I did. I emailed Ron my room dimensions and asked which one I should go with. I did tell him after reading his post I was favoring the Plus/2.

    I must say the response seemed like it was 30 minutes or less...It was definitely less than an hour...That is how I posted back so quickly.
    I must say i am impressed with the Customer Service part of SVS.

    There was a thread awhile back this summerbetween SVS and an unnamed company. I wasn't impressed with how the other company tried to say what was wrong with SVS instead of JUST standing on their own merits. That knocked them off my list almost immediately. I was impressed with the way SVS handled themselves in that thread...


    So it came down to SVS and Axiom. I intend to go with Axiom(but that's another thread) for the rest of my system and was impressed with their subs on paper, but there just isn't enough feedback on them yet. I figure this way I can hit two sponsors of the forum at the same time.

    I really like the no pressure effort Ron put forth. I get turned off by high pressure sales pitches...they usually reek of desperation. For Ron to say the two subs I was looking at were fairly close and if price was a concern to go with the value one speaks volumes. A lot of sales men if they have you on the fence like I was, almost always go for the jugular by saying the lesser priced item isn't nearly as good. Ron's opinions tell me that he has confidence in the entire brand and in everything he sells.

    I am looking forward to seeing that monster arrive!
     
  13. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Dan

    Congrats! I hope you have some help. You are looking at about 175 pounds on the skid. (Yeah, I think they come metal banded to a wood skid!). Probably 155 pounds in the box, and 140 out of the box. A 2 person job, but your room is going to be so pressurized.
     
  14. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    I have purchased two subs over the last 4 years from Ron. The first time I talked to him I knew I would be doing business with this fine man. He spent countless hours trying to get my dual NHT's to sound better w/o any SVS sales pitch at all. You don't get any better for the price and quality and service that SVS for subs.
    Mike
     
  15. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Yeah, the customer service from SVS is top notch. I have NEVER dealt with a company that is this friendly and helpful and they are willing to take the time to help you out and figure out what is best for you and your situation. Not only is Ron a great guy but props go out to Eric too. Great guy to deal with. He helped me purchase the SBS-01 system and am now diving in for the same sub. The PB 12-plUS 2. Can't wait! I also can't wait for the Mid tower set to come out. Will put that one in my main room and move the SBS-01 package to the bedroom. Keep up the stellar work SVS. [​IMG]
     
  16. timZa

    timZa Stunt Coordinator

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    I am really happy with my PB12/PLUS2. i have to say when i 1st got it i was disappointed in the sound and it was due to my room. i had to add carpet,some fiberglass panels on walls, 5 bass traps, and moved my couches. in my 4kcuft room the gain is only 1/4 way up! i gave it the best work out of all tonight. i bought Fast& furious Tokyo Drift and it rocked! this movie IMO is the best bass workout my sub has had. now if i can just quiet down the things that rattle in my house. now i know what the SVS is all about!
     

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