SVS PC-Ultra is now available

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Roger Q, Jan 4, 2004.

  1. Roger Q

    Roger Q Stunt Coordinator

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  2. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  3. Bo Assdale

    Bo Assdale Agent

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    I originally had my mind set on the PC 20-39+, but with this new PC-Ultra "coming to town" I really don't know!

    My HT-room is only about 4x4 meters, so even with the 20-39+ I guess I'll still have a good amount of headroom?!
    (But then again I might move into something bigger later on!)

    Is it only extra dB's that the Ultra will "deliver" when compared to the +-series or is it also a "tighter" bass- it delivers?!

    A PC 2039+ will set me back 1388$ and a PC Ultra will set me back 1800$ (at least)!!

    What should I invest in?!
     
  4. WayneO

    WayneO Supporting Actor

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    I don't believe your going to get a benefit worth $400 unless you must have the best the absolute last ounce of performance. A PC+ in that room is gonna have no problems filling it. The jury is still out on whether it'll be "tighter" since noone has one yet. And to be honest, I've never heard Ron or Tom over at SVS really give a solid statement on the driver accuracy between the three woofers they have currently. Guess an email could solve that........
     
  5. JohnSmith

    JohnSmith Supporting Actor

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    Bo Assdale-I have the 20-39 PC Plus in a 4M x 4M room. It really has lots of reserve output left. In fact I've just been trying out some really low bits- and felt plugging one port/adjusting ss filter to 16hz adds lots of lower end. It's still got lots of reserve. Plugging the sub lower than the stock tune will loose a couple of dB output. Haven't had tie to play with the new tune, but played back Toy Story II intro and that seems fine (and lower stuff being reproduced of course)

    Calibrated the other speakers (7.0) at 80dB, with subwoofer at 82/83dB. All speakers set to 80hz, sub at 80hz.
    At -5 dB it has no problems with really low & loud stuff. Read my review for the 20-39 PC Plus on Audioreview (Nathan the limey)

    Adding two ports to 12hz causes some port noise, and driver moves quite a bit, so not sure that's advisable. I've put it back to 16hz.

    I really doubt you'll need the Ultra. Unless you want to go deaf.

    The PC Plus wees all over a Rel Storm.. totally in another league.

    I can understand you want to buy the best you can afford (I felt the same- wanted the Ultra version, as I thought my Storm could be similar to the Plus) however it's much much better (goes lower, goes loude) so I would say the Ultra would be a bit of waste- you'll never need the extra output.
     
  6. Roger Q

    Roger Q Stunt Coordinator

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    Send Tom or Ron an email to check on your "tightness" question.
     
  7. Derrik Draven

    Derrik Draven Supporting Actor

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    I wonder if there is any possibility that SVS will be offering their "ultra" series, either powered or not, in the other models, ie 16/46...ect? Why stick with the 20/39 only?
     
  8. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Hi all,


    First, remember that terms like “fast”, “tight” ,”musical” are subjective in nature. So by definition, what audio enthusiast A thinks is "fast/tight/musical"...audio enthusiast B may not. Also, human bias will enter into the equation at some point. for example, If a manufacturer goes into great detail about how “fast” their bass is...after reading enough about that...some folks will naturally have a predisposition to believe it. So when they get the product home...by god the bass IS fast..[​IMG] (this is the same human workings that cause us to hear differences when painting the edge of your CD green---well, the website explained it in 5 pages with big words and they have a bunch of testimonials...so...)

    When talking about "fast bass", a subwoofer reviewer once said to me..."oh yeah, the bass was so fast it got out of the room before I could measure it".

    It is also important to consider the length of sound waves in this context and how that relates to their decay in a typical room. A 20hz sound wave is about 55ft long. The longer the sound wave, the more time it is going to take to decay. This longer decay time is often interpreted as “slow bass” simply because the bass doesn't *snap* to a sudden stop(as it may with a subwoofer that rolls off in the 35-50hz range). It isn't a coincidence that the majority of subwoofers that claim to be “tight/musical” are small/moderate sized sealed designs. If you look for objective performance data on these units, you'll notice there is one definite trend...they all tend to have a frequency response which rolls off in the 32-50hz range. Tom Nousaine has a lot of good FR data on a ton of subwoofers. Audio magazine and Audio Ideas Guide both used to have a lot of FR data in all their subwoofer reviews too. (AIG might still, haven't had time to pick up a copy for a few months).

    Now, there is nothing wrong in preferring that type of sound...it is a personal preference after all. But the correlation between what you think is “fast/tight” often has little to do with any magic a given manufacturer knows...and more to do with the very basics of the units performance...the frequency response(and several other factors introduced below).

    In the words of Bill Cosby, (paraphrased)"I told you that...so I can tell you this"...


    Among SVS designs, the Ultra driver is definitely top dog. I'm not going to wax poetically about its design...it is just a very good unit(and very expensive). The dB12 (Plus driver) is also a very good design, just not up to the same standards. The same can be said for the ISD driver we use in the PCi/CS,PB-1 and PB-2isd subwoofers. At low volume levels, all three of these units are going to sound nearly identical...only as the volume levels increase will the qualities of the dB12 and then the Ultra driver manifest themselves into audible benefits. Just how MUCH the volume levels would need to increase depends on many variables...and just how audible the differences were...would depend on additional variables...including the listeners experience and insight into how these difference may present themselves during source material playback. Here is an example of how THD (total harmonic distortion) may present itself…

    Let’s use 25hz and 90/95/100/105/110dB levels (just an example remember…)

    The Ultra driver may produce
     
  9. Jeffrey Forner

    Jeffrey Forner Screenwriter

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    I've wondered the same thing myself. Still, if you're really interested in getting that very deep sub-sonic bass found on many DVDs, it is possible to tune the sub to 16Hz with the help of a port blocker and the SS filter on the amp. The only downside is that you lose just a little bit of output in doing so.

    This begs the question, how would an PC-Ultra tuned to 16Hz compare with a 16-46PC-Plus model in terms of output? Would the Ultra still have a clear advantage or would they be more or less equal?

    By the way, Derrik, as a fellow 16-46PC-Plus owner, are you thinking what I'm thinking? [​IMG]
     
  10. Richard_B

    Richard_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Very nice response Tom.

    "Jerry Forner:
    This begs the question, how would an PC-Ultra tuned to 16Hz compare with a 16-46PC-Plus model in terms of output? Would the Ultra still have a clear advantage or would they be more or less equal?"

    I wonder the same type of thing. I have a 25-31 PC+ and I wonder what the difference is if I tune it to 20Hz compared to a 20-39 PCi?

    As for Bo Assdales question about the PC+ line being good for a 4M x 4M room I think it is. My room is slightly larger than that with a large opening to the dining room and I have plenty of output and headroom with my sub.
     
  11. MingL

    MingL Stunt Coordinator

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    SVS, wouldn't a 16-46PC-Ultra be a good idea?
     
  12. Derrik Draven

    Derrik Draven Supporting Actor

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    [​IMG]

    Yeah! Too damn bad Christmas just ended. I'm sure Santa's sleigh was big enough...
     
  13. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I have an Ultra so I can at least attest to the effects of port plugging the Ultra in my room with the rat shack meter.

    Measured with 1 /12 octave test tones at 80 db when comparing stock versus one port plugged, there is really very little difference in ouput from 26 to 100 hz (anywhere from identical to.5 to no more than 1 db). From 23.7 to 25.1 there is a 1 to 1.5 db deficit. From 20 to 23 there is a 3 to 3.5 db deficit. At 18.8 hz the 16 hz tune is down one db. Beyond 18.8 hz the 16 hz tune has a considerable advantage, about 9 dbs more at 14.1 hz.

    In experimenting with the 16 hz and stock tune while watching the TS2 intro and the Nemo Whale scene, it is virtually impossible for me to tell the difference from a strong 18.8 wave and a 15 hz wave (16 hz tune). I imagine due to both of these waves being below audibilty. I could however tell that the 16 hz tune lost a little impact in the slighlty more audibe 21 to 26 hz range. If I bump the sub woofer volume 3-4 dbs then the 16 hz tune is now on par with the stock tune in that range.

    In both tunes I played the movie track back at 6 db below reference so both tunes had the same master volume applied.

    In my situation, a parametric eq. centered at 23 hz with a narrow filter boosted 3 dbs would be perfect for this tune.

    I can actually achieve very usable extension to 16 hz in the stock tune. So between that and the slight loss in dbs between 20 and 23 hz, I prefer the stock tune.


    So anyway, I would think that with one port plugged on the Ultra that the 1646 would likely have an advantage at maximum volume around the 16-17 hz tune point. At this point I think that output is more about total volume size, ports and availibe and amp power versus speaker. So in this regard I would give a slight edge to the Plus.

    With the Ultra in 16 hz tune I think that the Ultra would be equally loud to a stock tuned 1646 between 20 and 24 hz if not slighlty louder. This could be due the Ultra driver having longer excursion capabilities. Above 25 hz the Ultra should have a significant advantage as the port plug is really not a factor therefore it is acting more like a stock Ultra than a plugged Ultra.
     
  14. Yohan Pamudji

    Yohan Pamudji Second Unit

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    If enclosure shape is not an issue, is there any reason to not spend the extra $100 (or extra $50 after the introductory price ends) to get the PB2-Plus? Two woofs vs. one, 900W vs. 525W--why not? If you're already spending $1100 I don't imagine that extra $100 would break the bank for (theoretically) such an increase in performance and bang for the buck?
     
  15. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Tom V > That was one heck of a post and very informative. I wont even consider asking you to explain it again![​IMG] I'll just read it over again a few more times to glean all that I can.
     
  16. BrentG

    BrentG Stunt Coordinator

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    Ya what Yohan said, I was wondering the same thing. I want to hear and feel them hart pounding thumps.....
     
  17. Derrik Draven

    Derrik Draven Supporting Actor

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    Would an Ultra driver fit in a "Plus" enclosure? Same amp, same tube, tri-ports and all.

    If the holes line up...why not? [​IMG]
     
  18. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    It won't fit - that question's been asked before. I think the bolt pattern is different (or something along those lines).
     

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