SVS PC Plus 16-46 or 20-39, can't decide

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by MikaelG, Dec 12, 2002.

  1. MikaelG

    MikaelG Agent

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    So, in a week or two, I'll be ordering a SVS sub. I've made up my mind, and damn it, I'm gonna have one. [​IMG]
    Anyway, the reason why I even caught attention to these subs, was their output in < 25 Hz area. If I wanted loud output at 35 Hz +/- 5 Hz range, I'd instead buy two 5 k subs, perhaps Magnat Omega 380. According to the specs it reaches 16 Hz, but is that in -12 or -16 db? A swedish magazine measured it to 22 Hz at -6 dB, so why am I even bothering? ;-)
    So to my question. I'm just interested in the really low frequencies, cause that is what make the SV subs unique (in the pricerange), but how low/loud do the 16-46 really extend compared to the 20-39? I just want as much output in the
     
  2. KevinHunt

    KevinHunt Stunt Coordinator

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    Mikael, I've owned 4 16-46 subs over the last 3-4 years. 2 original 16-46CS subs and now 2 16-46CS+ subs. I've never been able to listen to a 39 or 31. All I can say is that I've never felt I've lacked the Umph! or punch that the smaller cylinders are said to provide. Believe me, there is plenty of output from the big ones and yes they can reach plenty low. I never had any restraints as far as size or WAF factor so I just got a pair of the big ones. My room is not small either. The room itself is 3500cu. ft and opened to the rest of the upstairs and downstairs and I've never had them bottom out. However, I don't ever listen at quite reference level either. Just my 2c. I'd say if you don't have any size restraints, get the big one, but I don't think you'll be disappointed with any SVS sub at all. Good luck.
     
  3. JohnDG

    JohnDG Stunt Coordinator

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  4. Mat_M

    Mat_M Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the same question as MikaelG; can't decide between the 16-46PC-Plus or the 20-39PC-Plus. If you know any references to charts/reviews/testimonials comparing the two, please post them.
    On top of that, does anyone have any charts for comparing each model to it's PCi relative?
    Thanks,
    Mat
    P.S. One more thing, but it's off topic, and maybe Ron can explain: Take a look at these two charts:
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_cs_performance.htm
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pci_performance.htm
    They're exactly the same. Although these are relative performance charts, I find it a little tough to swallow that 3 sets of subwoofers can have the exact same performance curve. Is there an explanation for this? or am I looking too deep into it?
     
  5. TommyL

    TommyL Supporting Actor

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    Don't second guess yourself, grab the big gun, and be done with it...your killing yourself over 2 sweet subs...50 bucks and you KNOW you got the upper one...don't wish you tested the larger one...grab it and run!![​IMG]
     
  6. Dan Lindley

    Dan Lindley Second Unit

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    I had the same questions and went for the 46. There should be several threads on this if you can search with the right terms. The charts probably tell it all: louder by a tiny amount (from what I can non-expertly tell) vs quite a bit more lowness from the 46. I went with the 46 b/c it will provide more tactile sensation on the very low end. About 3/4 year ago or so, TV would say that very few movies would take advantage of that, but that increasing numbers of movies appear to do so.

    So, since I am not pushing the highest volumes in my small space, I went with maximum range. I have listened to no other SVS or other subwoofers except an entry level AR (which was fine).

    Just my thoughts based on my research and my needs during the summer sale.

    DL
     
  7. MarcVH

    MarcVH Second Unit

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    You would probably be happy with either sub. I faced the same debate (but with CS+ instead of PC+ subs) and ended up getting the 20-39. I've experimented with using the port plugs to the it down to a 16 Hz tune, but I don't listen to that much pipe organ.
     
  8. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    Also keep in mind you can tune a the 20-39PC Plus down to 16hz by simply inserting a port plug. When playing with the port plug on my CS Ultra I barely notice a difference.

    If it were my decision, I'd opt for the 25-31PC Plus and ask for the free 22hz tune. After inserting a port plug in that, I guess you'd be around 18hz. Rather than spend the money on a lower tune, I'd invest the saved money in the Behringer Feedback Destroyer(BFD). With the help of the BFD, I'm +-2 from 15-90Hz with only about 1.5 hours of fiddling.
     
  9. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Frank,

    Actually we don't offer custom tuning on the PC-Plus subs, only the PCi. This is because it's so simple for the customer to tune the 25-31PC-Plus to 20 or even 16Hz in a matter of seconds.

    As you noted, the changes in tuning can be very subtle. Only very specific source material will reveal differences of the various tunes. The louder you play, and the deeper the material, the more audible you'll find the change.

    Can't argue with your recommendation to Mikael though. That relatively small SVS packs quite a punch. If the visual height of the 20-39 sizing is not an issue (you wouldn't think 8" of added height would appear like much but they are much taller appearing) then I have to add it's by far our best selling size sub. If you simply want to know you are trolling the depths of EVERY disk you throw at it, (sacrificing only a few dBs of overall capacity up above 30Hz) then the peace of mind the tallest PC-Plus might seem money well spent.

    It's a tough call but I'd have to say the 20-39 would be what I'd recommend in this instance, with either the 25-31 or 16-46 easy to fall back to, depending on what Mikael values most. Cost savings, size, depth, average output?

    Ron
     
  10. MikaelG

    MikaelG Agent

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    Everyone who's posted:
    Thanx for your recommendations.[​IMG]
    Ron:
    My budget ís tight at the moment, I got problems at work, and my paycheck this month is 350 bucks minus. So it's just a matter of time, either this month or the next. I've decided on the 16-46, however I'm still not sure if to buy a PC+ or PCi.:b
    What I value the most is:
    Price (the cheaper the better)
    Output in the
     
  11. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Below 30 Hz, a PC+ will beat the same size PCi by approximately 5-6 dB dB in maximum output capability. Above 30 Hz, the difference in max output is more like 3-4 dB.

    Considering the fact that adding a second sub in the same corner yields (at best) a 5-6 dB increase in volume, a single PC+ will almost be equivalent to dual PCi's in the same room.

    Put into that perspective, the PC+ is a downright bargain, IMO. If you "just want that ultra low stuff to be as loud as possible", the 16-46PC+ is the ticket for you.

    Ed
     
  12. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Mikael,

    I can't argue with Ed, but I get a bit concerned when folks seem more intent on getting a good subwoofer than eating!

    Really, either sub will probably please you. In fact I frequently tell folks the PCi and PC-Plus are, in their own price categories, equally good values. The PC-Plus gives you more flexible setup options, and simply more deep bass (as Ed pointed out). Given your relatively compact room (yes, a room's size is KEY) I'd not hesitate in the least to get the PCi to save a few $. It'd be more than adequate for all but the most insane "Sub-human". That's not to say a PC-Plus would be a waste of money, just that most folks would find the PCi enough.

    We're not going away any time soon though, and we don't expect prices to rise in the immediate future either. I know I'd sure feel more comfortable if you waited till your paycheck stabilized a bit!

    This month, next month, we can wait if you can (or should ;^).

    Ron
     
  13. Bill W.

    Bill W. Stunt Coordinator

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    Ron, that has to be the most honest advice I've ever heard from anyone in the audio industry!

    It cements the comments I have heard about SVS and the advice it gives.

    As one who could miss a few meals and afford the sub of my dreams I found the rest of your post invigorating.

    My next HT purchase will be a new sub from SVS, but I have some resonance issues to work out first, (as in "the whole house already moves when something explodes, why are you intent on completely destroying it!")and I'm only using a 10" NHT. My house is 3300 square feet so its not as if it were a little one bedroom place or a condo/apartment.

    Thanks for your honesty!!

    Bill
     
  14. Mat_M

    Mat_M Stunt Coordinator

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  15. Michael Mohrmann

    Michael Mohrmann Screenwriter

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    Mat_M,

    About the two charts you noted for the PCi and CS series subs, it appears that the PCi page is still displaying the image for the CS data (take a look at the image links on both pages). I wonder if these were meant to be the same or if the PCi page has the wrong image link.

    Michael
     
  16. MikaelG

    MikaelG Agent

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    Ron, Ed, everyone
    Ok, I've made up my mind. I'm going for the 16-46 PC+. Totally, it's gonna cost me approx. 1000 USD to buy a PCi, including shipping, taxes, various custom fees and all that FBS, and 1200 USD for the PC+. So I'm thinking, If I'm gonna have the best, I ain't gonna be stingy. And if I'd buy the PCi, I'd never know how much better the PC+ would be. And maybe I wouldn't be completely satisfied with the PCi, then I'd be beating myself for not buying a PC+ instead.[​IMG]
    Anyway, 16-46 PC+ is what I'm gonna get.[​IMG]
     

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