SVS PB2-Plus Test and Review - Long (1 Viewer)

[Michael Ipp]

How do you think the PB2 would compare to the Ultra with a 1000w Sampson? Thats what I have now but am looking to step it up a notch...and not just a little notch.

I have about $2k to spend so the B4 is outta my range. adding another Ultra is not feasible because of the size. How would 2 PB2's be?

Also, anyone heard or compared to the CineNova 15 that garners rave reviews?

 

[Chip E]

Ed,

Excellent review! I've been busy.. I'm holding $1199.00 in my hand as i type

On a side note, i'm trying to determine what's the best tune to run this beast in when i get one. 3 ports open, 20hz ss filter.. Hmmmm.. I know, try them all out.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>How do you think the PB2 would compare to the Ultra with a 1000w Sampson? Thats what I have now but am looking to step it up a notch...and not just a little notch.

I have about $2k to spend so the B4 is outta my range. adding another Ultra is not feasible because of the size. How would 2 PB2's be?>On a side note, i'm trying to determine what's the best tune to run this beast in when i get one. 3 ports open, 20hz ss filter.. Hmmmm.. I know, try them all out.

 

[Ron Boster]

Ron from SVS said:

We're conservatively estimating 3-4 weeks for new orders. Far longer than we'd hoped at this stage but we're working hard to eliminate this lag.

Ron, I assume this estimate is not current. My order should be shipped between July 10th-14th...which means it would arrive between July 14th-18th....this would mean a 6 week window from order to receipt.

Ron

 

[SVS-Ron]

Ron,

I meant "new" orders processed as of today. Those that came in during the pre-order time, (or just as we were shipping the first units) have in some cases waited longer than 3-4 weeks for sure.

Drop me a line if you DO indeed wait 6 weeks (especially if it wasn't a pre-order!) and we're going to take the edge off that pain somehow. And no one knows it's painful more than us!

Ron

 

[TommyL]

Michael...sell the svs you have...put that money toward a B4+...If you have any questions, rattle them off...This thing "purrs" About 30 minutes ago I was listening to some tunes.(sub on) The thing is so accurate, it amazes me...blends VERY well...I had thought something was wrong with it...it can keep up with anything I own..plus it hits high spls clean without crying I was in the same boat as you...wanted to wait on the PB2...finally grabbed the B4+...it looks great, and is build like a brick shithouse! It should be the last sub upgrade you need...which is why I bought it..yes, it is a bit more...but whats another 499?..and when your talking dual PB2's....its just about the same price...

 

[Adam_Reiter]

Thanks, guys. I don't know if it will ever show up in print anywhere, but I figured if I was going to do a review on a $1,200 sub, I'd better do it right.

Hehe. I wonder what you would have done if you bought the B4+.

I spent $2500, $2884(shipped) (AMP NOT INCLUDED) and when I posted my review all I said was.

"StarWars pod race scene is killer with my setup. Also, LOTR of course. Just, every movie that has great movie sound, sounds killer".

 

[Michael Ipp]

Tommy, good point. What amp are you using? Could I use the Sampson or just suck it up and spend the $$$?

 

[TommyL]

Hi Michael...thanks for listening at least...FWIW I use the crown k1 amp bridged for mine...I have to believe that the 1000 watt samson will do the trick...the only thing you may lack is the earbleeding It should be fine...email tom V....I went through that same deal...ended up with the crown, and said screw it...now my upgrades are done on the sub side...no amp, no sub...which can hardly be said for any other piece in any system...If I need more..I won't know it...because I'll be deaf before it happens...this sub is that good...and powerful...plus it looks awesome! How big is your room? (openings at all?) Like I said..mine is 4500 CF, and it rocks the hell outta it...in a good way

 

[TommyL]

Hey Adam..how you liking the B4+? I still can't get LOTR to reference...about 12-15 below and my house feels unsafe...seriously

 

[Edward J M]

Hehe. I wonder what you would have done if you bought the B4+.

Good one Adam. :b Please don't take that statement as a knock directed at you (or anyone else) who posted a short review on a very costly piece of equipment.

A thorough review is probably more just my style than anything else, but I do think more detail is warranted above a certain price point; there's simply more to risk from the buyer's standpoint.

To honestly answer your hypothetical question, if I could have afforded the B4-Plus, I probably could have also afforded (and ponied up for) a pro-grade mic and a spectra software program to measure THD and added that aspect to the review.

It's still a goal of mine, but that stuff isn't cheap. It was an infinitely better idea to spend $1,200 on the sub than to spend $1,000 to measure its distortion levels. Something about return on investment and diminishing returns........

Regards,

Ed

 

[TommyL]

Michael....30 minutes later, and I got a response...go figure(from Tom V @ SVS...He said it will work fine...and as I said..it may not make your ears bleed, but it'll kick ass...not even my crown will push it to its limits...need more watts lol... Now you have a decision questions..feel free to email [email protected]

 

[Michael Ipp]

Thank Tommy,

Knowing me, I'll go for the big nut. I'm pretty hard to please. Selling my M&K's 150's after only having them for 2 months. They were good...but not good enough

For 2 channel I was using Merlin VSM's and planned on using the M&K's for HT. But side by side, the Merlins were just soooo much better. They are only a 2-way speaker so they do lack in the punch area. I figure I can make that up with the sub to some extent.

Money wise I hope to get back $3000 for the M&K's and $800 for the Ultra w Sampson. So with $3800, I could just go all out get the sub and be done on the speaker side.

Then it's time to upgrade my Lexicon MC-1... it never ends

 

[TommyL]

yup...sounds like a plan...I'm doing the same thing...demoing the Lex mc-8/sherbourn 7/2100 this weekend...should be umm...interesting then, I'm done for a while...lol...drop me a line anytime..I like your idea though..I think you'll be very pleased, and that SVS should be a EASY sell...shipping..about 35 bucks fyi ( I shipped a 2039 pci a while back) via ups.

 

[Ron Walsh]

Hi Ed, I’m a bit embarrassed to say i have been lurking on HTF for over a year, just reading and learning as I build my HT system. This is a great forum and your review of the pb2plus and my recent purchase of a 2039pc+ got me excited enough to post a response.
After setting up my 2039pc+ along with the denon 3803 and the klipsch RF5’s I was overcome with enjoyment and wanted to share that excitement with my neighbor mark who is in the process of making a decision on buying a sub for his system. My room is 2000 cubic feet and that sub turns my floor into a trampoline mat when I play it at 13 below reference level , but I will work that problem out later. I believe mark was impressed with the 2039pc+ however his application is in a bigger room about 2500 cubic feet he also has a denon 3803 and a older pair of klipsch mark 4’s on the front end. I printed your review of the pb2 plus and gave it to him to read and compare against other subs in that range. His question to me was on the pinnacle subs from acoustic vision. As I expressed to mark the only thing I was aware of is what I have read on the tumult woofer and if I was making the purchase that would have me a bit worried. I know the Denali is more expensive than the pb2plus, but how do you think they would compare performance wise with his application and room size? Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and I will pass them along to mark.
Ron Walsh

 

[Arthur Vino]

sweet combo..

> demoing the Lex mc-8/sherbourn 7/2100 this weekend...

 

[Edward J M]

His question to me was on the pinnacle subs from acoustic vision. As I expressed to mark the only thing I was aware of is what I have read on the tumult woofer and if I was making the purchase that would have me a bit worried. I know the Denali is more expensive than the pb2plus, but how do you think they would compare performance wise with his application and room size?

Hi Ron:

If your PC+ is causing your wood floor to bounce, try decoupling the sub from the floor with a few heavy pieces of slate or concrete pavers. Maybe someone else has an even better suggestion.

Well you are certainly steering your neighbor in the right direction. He is looking at two very high quality subs.

The whole Tumult issue is understandably a sensitive subject for Adire Audio and the many DIY enthusiasts and audio companies (like Acoustic Visions and Rutledge Audio Design) who pre-ordered Tumults and waited months while Adire worked with Destijl to overcome the voice coil QA/QC issues. I'm not sure the problem has been completely fixed, since earlier this month a DIY HTF member apparently received a Tumult with shorted VCs that caused his amp to shut down. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=144276

Adire is a high quality outfit, and I'm confident the Tumult bugs will be fixed (if they aren't already). I still believe the Tumult holds great promise as a high performance driver. While I don't claim to completely understand the XBL2 Motor Technology (indeed Adire claims only legitimate licensees have all the details), it seems to provide low distortion, a high excursion limit, and linear motor strength over the entire excursion range. And one simply can't ignore the Sd and xMax, which equate to about 5.1 liters of displacement per full stroke! I don't think any other single driver comes close to the air moving capability of the Tumult.

How do the Denali and PB2+ stack up performance wise? That's a tough call, but I'll give it a try using very limited information (which will probably lead to flames, but what the hell). The tuning sheet SVS provides with each PB2+ shows a maximum linear excursion (i.e., xMax) of 26 mm. The Sd of the dB-12 must be very close to that of the Stryke AV12 (also built by TC Sounds), because the two drivers look almost identical from a surface area standpoint. Using an Sd of 498 cm2 and an xMax of 26 mm yields a Vd of 2.6 liters per full stroke. Since the PB2+ uses two dB-12 drivers, the total combined Vd would be 5.2 liters per full stroke, or about equal to a single Tumult.

While theoretical air moving capability is surely not the only variable that affects the maximum output capability of a subwoofer, it is nevertheless a good indicator. With that said, I would expect the Denali and the PB2+ with all ports open to be pretty well matched in maximum output down to about 22 Hz. I think Kyle once mentioned the Denali has an F3 of 18 Hz anechoic. If that is true, the Denali should be capable of greater output below 22 Hz. If you plug a port and tune the PB2+ to 20 Hz, I would expect extension similar to the Denali, at the expense of losing maybe 2 dB in maximum output.

To speculate further would simply be unfair to both companies, as the above "guesstimate" is nothing more than a pretty unsophisticated attempt at bench racing. If your neighbor wants better and more accurate answers, have him talk to Kyle and Tom V directly. They designed the subs and they know better than anyone what they are capable of. Either one would provide more than adequate clean output in a 2,500 ft3 room.

By all accounts Kyle knows how to build a great sub, and he is using a killer driver. Provided the Tumults he uses are fully up to snuff, I would expect the Denali to be an outstanding performer in all respects, and I'm quite sure your neighbor would not be disappointed with one. The Denali offers an exotic wood finish and exposed driver/PRs that will definitely appeal to certain enthusiasts. Personally, those same features would make me nervous with young kids in the house. The protected downward firing drivers and bulletproof textured finish of the PB2+ better fit my particular needs and living environment. Your neighbor should consider these things too.

Finally, the Denali costs $1,900 plus about $150 shipping. The PB2+ costs $1,200 plus $50 shipping. That's about $800 more for the Denali, and some of that premium is certainly justified with the furniture grade finish. I think his final decision should reflect his budget, living environment, personal aesthetic tastes, and of course overall performance.

I think the Denali will continue to attract customers who require high performance and who also place a premium on a furniture grade wood finish and overall aesthetics (much along the same lines as the SVS B4-Plus). Conversely, the overwhelmingly positive reception enthusiasts have given the PB2-Plus proves SVS has cooked up an unbeatable combination of design features and amazing performance at a considerably lower price point.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

All we need now is someone who lives near kyle with an SVS to do a good ol comparo It is possible that some of the Pinnicles are out there in the hands of silent people (shock?), but I don't want to guess. I do think that the numbers game has been done over and over and over with these subs, so I think the only way to know now is a direct physical comparison.

Also...

on the price issue. Besides the finish, one must also consider that the PR's cost CONSIDERABLY more than the ports.

 

[Kyle Richardson]

I'll duck in here just because the Denali was mentioned then I'll duck back out again quickly to avoid hijacking the PB2+ thread.
Basically, Edward hit the nail right on the head with the comparisons and descriptions. Yes, its tuned to just below 18Hz and is rock solid flat as a pancake to about 14-15Hz in room at about 105db (individual rooms will vary). Below 14-15Hz it starts to drop rapidly because of a subsonic filter built into the amp.
Guessed correctly. I Don't know if they frequent this forum so I'm not sure if there will be any reviews posted here or not. Numbers are still small since the Tumult stock is just starting to develop, but you should see more in the future.

 

[TommyL]

Hey arthur..you heard that combo have ya? PM me...don't wanna hijack the thread