SVS: PB2-Plus right now or wait for PB1-Ultra?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by ArthurJ, Oct 30, 2003.

  1. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    Subject says it all. I want quality over quantity, I know the PB2-Plus may get louder, but if the quality of sound is better in the PB1-Ultra I will opt for that. Any ideas?
     
  2. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    ?
     
  3. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Arthur

    Quality of deep bass is hard to pin down. Harmonic distortion is typically 10% at the max. Some people think there is a "speed" quality to bass. From what I've heard and read, speed is not a real issue.

    IMHO, output from 20-50 Hz is what separates the big boys from the rest. Some of the more expensive subs can go below 20Hz. HSU TN 1220 with about 4,000 watts can do 12.5 Hz at over 100 db.

    The fly in the ointment is that only pipe organ music gets this low.

    Lots of good stuff out there from SVS and HSU.

    Artie
     
  4. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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  5. Richard_B

    Richard_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Arthur & Wayne,
    Do you mean PB1-Plus or PB1-Ultra? I have not heard anything of a PB1-Ultra.
    However
    I am sure the PB1-Plus is a single driver. I was told from one of the guys at SVS that it would be comparable to the PC+ line cylinders. The PB1-ISD is comparable to the PCi line of cylinders. I think the amp will be the same 525 watt amp that is in the PC+. The price of the PB1-Plus will be around $1,000. The PB2-Ultra will be closer to $2,000. These are the two box subs with the real wood finish, well and also the B4. The PB1-ISD, PB2-ISD and PB2-Plus come in the standard black finish and the PB1-ISD can also be had in a few other colors.

    I can tell you if the PB1-Plus performs like a PC+ cylinder then it will be a winner.
     
  6. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    Oh jeese, I thought it stocked the TV-12 driver. Hense why I thought it was a Ultra. lol, sorry guys, so OBVIOUSLY the PB2-Plus is a more capable sub.
     
  7. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Based on what I've seen on postings from Ron, there "should" be a PB1-Ultra - eventually. SVS just has its hands so full with filling production orders for current models that a PB1-Ultra just isn't on the front burner. While it's not set in stone yet, I won't be surprised to see a PB1-Ultra on SVS' website within a year or so.

    I'm sure it will be very similar to the current PB1-Plus, except it will house the TV-12 driver. And maybe it will have that long rumored parametric EQ that should make production in the PB2-Ultra.

    To most listeners a Plus sub and an Ultra sub sound almost identical up to the clean limits of the Plus sub. This will hold true for all comparable models (i.e., 20-39CS-Plus vs. 20-39CS-Ultra, PB1-Plus vs. PB1-Ultra, PB2-Plus vs. PB2-Ultra).

    But in my experience, the Ultra driver has a discernible sound of its own as compared to the Plus driver. The difference is very subtle, but it is there. The Ultra driver simply nails every passage and every nuance perfectly, and it seems unflappable and really makes the stretch for that last bit of excursion and that last fraction of a dB when the going gets really hairy. The underhung design retains a linear motor strength almost right to maximum driver excursion, and perhaps that design feature is responsible for my subjective impressions of this driver.

    The Plus driver in comparison is IMO about 90% the performance of the Ultra driver, for about 1/2 the cost. The TV-12 is a perfect example of the law of diminishing returns - it offers a marginal performance advantage over the dB-12 but it will cost you. Clearly, the Plus line offers the best bang for the buck, but the Ultra is there for those who pine for the ultimate, lust after the TV-12, and have the discretionary income to make it happen.
     
  8. Paul_Ptaaty

    Paul_Ptaaty Stunt Coordinator

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    I think Ed is right.

    These guys are totally swamped right now, the PB2-plus production was increased sizable and the backorders are still there. I am over two weeks waiting for mine! (10/15-10/31 and counting).

    Also Ron seems to be advocating other sub manuf more lately. I wonder if they are at an impasse and debating going HUGE vs staying smaller.... seems they want to stay small and intimate, but word of mouth has reached critical mass and the demand is huge!

    just my speculation....no facts here!
     
  9. Ron Stimpson

    Ron Stimpson Stunt Coordinator

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    Paul,

    Someone must have hit me on the head if I advocated another brand ;^) Seriously, we know that there are some decent products from other OEMs, and in the case of someone with a serious problem with "WAF" (wherein, say ONLY some sort of invisible "micro-sub" is going to make it thru the door) we are not shy about recommending something that's more suitable than one of our products.

    Having said that, we're so comitted to keeping up with demand, AND keeping all our production in the USA (despite some rather silly statements to the contrary on various web threads, about 95% of our content comes from North America, and even the few imported items we use come from US vendors!)... that we're rapidly proceeding with movement to a large factory not far from our current location in Ohio. We've expanded our first facility 3 times and it's still not big enough.

    If all goes to plan, we'll be soon be refurbishing a factory that has languished in Youngstown for some time. When you see skilled labor put out of work, and first rate factory floors sitting idle, well sometimes you have to act boldly. If having a factory in "Liberty Township, Ohio" isn't bold enough I don't know what is (really, not making that up, our top choice right now for expansion).

    Suffice it to say that yet another of the proverbial "businesses that started in a garage" (like Microsoft, Gateway, and several others that come to mind) has moved so quickly that we now intend to take the fight to the big OEMs in ways they can't imagine right now. While our current facility is quite modern and comfortable (having outgrown a garage in our first few months, nearly 4 years ago) it'll probably revert to a sattelite R/D shop for Tom's growing crew instead.

    That we'll continue to evolve by paying top wages to some of the most skilled workers and suppliers anywhere in the world (in Ohio and several of our out of state offices) has indeed become something of a professional and personal challenge for us. That it's a point of pride that we're bucking the trend to ship more and more good paying manufacturing jobs overseas should be obvious I guess.

    So, I'd hope that while we're always open to the idea that other products might well be prefered to an SVS (due to simple brand loyalty if nothing else)... we will NEVER lose the responsive small business roots that made us the hottest subwoofer brand on the INTERNET. I hope it's also clear we intend to continue expansion to keep up with growing demand, keep new and exciting products coming, AND keep listeninig to the customers that made us what we are.

    Ron Stimpson
    SVS Co-Founder
     
  10. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    Great post Ron.... I dont know how you guys do it but we love ya!!!!
     
  11. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

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  12. Ron Stimpson

    Ron Stimpson Stunt Coordinator

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    Robb,

    You and others have been patient on that one, thanks. The aforementioned factory move, and some very complex CNC work (did I mention the dedicated "Ultra" amp with Parametric EQ?) have served us several "slips" on that sub. Make no mistake, it is coming.

    And I promise the will not have been in vain. I hope to have an update on our News page in the next few days.

    Ron
     
  13. JackLonn

    JackLonn Agent

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    I ordered on the 15th too, Paul. I got an email from Erik K. (SVS) yesterday in response to my "... don't mean to be a pest but when might I expect shipment...", stating that it should ship this week. Based on all the great stuff I hear, I'm justing getting more and more excited. The hard part is holding off on watching movies I want to watch again with my new system:

    Nec HT 1000
    Anthem AVM 20
    Anthem MCA 50
    Outlaw M200 (2 for 7.1 rears)
    Klipsch CF-2 (kept from old system)
    Klipsch RC-7
    Klipsch RS-7 (2 pair)
    Klipsch SW12 sub (to be replaced by PB2+!)

    It ROCKS! Can hardly wait for the PB2+ :b
     
  14. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

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    Ron,

    As always, thanks for the update. Any time you need to work with that sub is all right by me. If you said it could be in my house by xmas without parametric EQ or by Valentine's with the EQ, I can wait until February. Easy for me to say, though -- I've got a 20-39PC+ to keep me company in the meantime. [​IMG]
     

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