SVS PB12-Ultra/2 vs TWO Axiom EP500's (1 Viewer)

[Geno B]

Does anyone have an opinion, or better yet, facts, on the performance differences between one PB12-Ultra/2 and two Axiom EP500's??? My HT room is about 3300^ft and the back of the room is open to another 2000^ft. It is in the basement (padded carpet over concrete). If I went with 2 Axioms, one would be in the corner, the other would be approximately 5 ft from the opposite corner (if that makes any predictable difference). Conversely, if I put the SVS in the corner, it will have to lay on its side. Two EP's will definitely look better, but once the lights go out no one will care.
My #1 goal is to *feel* the bass. I want to be kicked... hard! And I want subs that go *deep* as well. I don't want to miss out on any LFE's once my HT is up and running.
Either brand will be a big upgrade for me, so I'm not worried about sound quality.
Any thoughts?

 

[SteveCallas]

An Ultra vs EP 600 comparison over at AVS has resulted in 3 locked and deleted threads already. Measurements show a single PB Ultra to go deeper and have less THD, yet owners of the Axiom feel it's sound quality is better than the Ultra. From what I've gathered, a PB10 appears to measure better too, so I think you're pretty safe with an Ultra/2. I've heard neither, but when it comes to subs (not with speakers), I tend to go with the measurements.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

It is very difficult to integrate 2 or more subs. Not impossible, but very difficult.

With one sub, you simply have to worry about its phase with your other 5 (or 6 or 7 channels). With 2, now you additionally have to make sure the phase between the two subs in matched.

And then the additional problem is: where do you put them? For a single sub, *usually* corner placement works best. But for two, the recommendation is opposite each other, 1/2 way down the 2 longest walls.

The Axiom has a 0/180 deg phase switch. So unless you can do it with placement, it will be nearly impossible to get the phase correct between both subs and the mains speakers.

Their web site says that you can get down to 18 Hz in a room. I have personally measured my single PB12-Ultra/2 down to 11 Hz in my room. You do not get any greater low end extension with 2 subs. Just greater output than 1 alone.

I had a Vandersteen V2W before the SVS. It was flat to about 20 Hz in my room. The SVS is flat to 11 Hz. (Believe it or not, +/- 2 dB from 11 Hz to 40 Hz, and then room nodes take over.) The Vandersteen went pretty low, I thought. But with the SVS, I can now feel what I was missing in terms of low end extension.

If you know what TrueRTA or ETF5 are, then I'd say you could give it a shot. Otherwise, I'd say the SVS is a better buy.

 

[Geno B]

Thank you Steve and Kevin. Is there anyone else out there who has experience with both subs... and no grudges or hard feelings?!? From what I've read, the PB12-Ultra/2 seems nearly impossible to beat in its price range, so that's what I'm leaning towards. But the EP500 really sounds promising, so I would like a definitive answer before pulling the trigger. I know that the only sure way is to order both and set them up... but it can't hurt to ask, right?

 

[Wayne Ernst]

Geno,

Both companies have great return policies. If you can swing the shipping, order both of the subs and try them both out. It would be interesting to gather your impressions of each.

 

[AlanZ]

If what Steve said is true about the PB-10 comparing favorably to the Axiom, then there really isn't much room for discussion if you want the best product for the money. I picked up a PB-10 after I had to get rid of my PB12-ISD/2 following a divorce. I expected to keep it until I got myself back on my feet, then pass it along to my brother and go back to a larger SVS. Well, It's almost a year later and there it sits....it is a FREAK of a sub. My HT room is approx 15x25, and not only does it do a helluva job in this room, it does a job on the whole house. It never ceases to amaze me what SVS can do....

Anyway, the point is that if this modest PB10 compares to the Axiom, and my former PB12-ISD/2 was rocking out a room that was quite a bit larger and more open that where I'm at now, then I can't even fathom what the Ultra/2 is capable of.

Heck, I think I've all but decided to just go with another PB-10, myself....I'm already pretty much where I want to be with bass, so another one of those little guys will be just the ticket.

 

[MikeLi]

I say buy speakers from the folks that excel at speakers, buy subs from the folks that excel at subs...
MikeL

 

[Lewis Besze]

I would also go with the a single SVS, for reasons alone Kevin cited, not to mention the output capabilities of the Ultra.Even the PB-12plus/2 would be a winner for about $800 less.

 

[MikeLi]

Just sold a PB12+2 yesterday to a guy I met locally and boy did I love that sub and heard back from him later after he got it home and tried it out on Jurassic Park that he did as well and really really liked it. Of course if you have ever had one before in a decent sized room they can shake your house down plus deliver good bass. I have since upgraded to the Ultra (only as I wanted a matching color now that they have them) so we shall see how that goes.

 

[John Menoni]

Let me know how you like the Ultra compared to the PB12.

 

[Geno B]

I'd like to know, too! I originally thought of going from the EP500 to the PB12+2. I only recently upgraded (in my mind) to the Ultra/2, since I don't want to have to wonder, "What if???" I am especially interested to get your opinion on how hard the Ultra "hits" vs the Plus, at the SAME volume level. I've heard some people say they felt it more, and I've read some more scientific theories on how that is simply not possible at the same SPL.
What is your educated opinion, Mike? One more thing... when you said you upgraded from the PB12+2 to the "Ultra" did you mean the "Ultra/2"?

 

[MikeLi]

No I actually went with the PB12Ultra in Oak. I thought if it was not enough I would get a second one but dont need it at all. I gave up my PB2+ (renamed the PB12+2) in black was the one I sold. It may have upped things in shear output power by only 5% but I am very happy with the ultra in my 20X30 Ft. room. Before I only had to have the gain on the PB12 around 1/2. On the single Ultra to get to the same point or near it after calibrating and setting things on the receiver, it is just barely above 1/2 way. Now I did get one of those mopads to set the sub on. Cost about $60 I think shipped but even in a carpeted room getting it on one and up about 3" and being supported by this thing I think it also helps boost the sound a bit. But thats my take on it. Anyway I love my bass on movies.. I love to feel the chest hairs move when the action hits... so far I have no regrets and don't let the numbers fool you. I fell into that trap... Its all in your ears and your setting on how well things work... period. Good luck.. Keep it up SVS... I will never buy a sub anywhere else...