SVS PB10-ISD or KSW-12

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Himanshu_S, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. Himanshu_S

    Himanshu_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,

    I need to decide whether to keep the KSW-12 I have or get the PB10-ISD. The PB10 will be $150 more so is it worth it to upgrade? My receiver is Yamaha HTR-5790 so I think it has the crossover settings needed by PB10. Will the PB10 out perform KSW-12? KSW-12 also has BASH amplifier, however it's rated at 105 continous while the PB10 is 300. The PB10 is 10" and the KSW-12 is 12" [​IMG] so does the size of subwoofer matter? The room size is 20x12.

    thanks for the replies,
    Himanshu
     
  2. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    The KSW-12 is almost universally acknowledged as a boom box with no real bottom end. The PB10-ISD will be worlds better......
     
  3. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I think the only real decision you have there is what color PB-10 to get [​IMG]
     
  4. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    The room size is 20x12.
    _________________________________________________

    In that size room, the PB10-ISD would be great! You would have plenty of headroom if the ceiling isn't 40' high. The PB10-ISD can perform incredibly well in a room much larger. In comparing the 10-ISD to the KSW-12 in extension and sound> I would think you would find the SVS much more pleasurable and very much worth the effort/$$..
     
  5. jephdood

    jephdood Stunt Coordinator

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    I had a KSW-15. The KSW series of subs aren't good.
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    My room is 19x20 and the PB-10 does quite well.
     
  7. ScottCarr

    ScottCarr Second Unit

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    I tried the KSW in my HT for about 4 hours. To me it sounded like my head was in a bass drum the morning after drinking. It was boomy and seem to produce one frequency.

    You will definitely get more bass and appreciation from the SvS.

    Scott
     
  8. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    When I hear the KSW-12 at Best Buy, my ears almost prefer the KSW-10 when it comes to music. The KSW-12 is way too boomy - as the others have stated. Didn't have any "demo" experience by checking the subs out with home theater, so I can't comment on its abilities there.
     
  9. Dr. Anthony Rosalia

    Dr. Anthony Rosalia Stunt Coordinator

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    The only true way to tell is to purchase a unit and do a side by side comparison. Check with http://www.audioenvy.com and see if there is someone who has one in your area so you can actually hear it yourself. I would not expect everyone to go run out and buy a test DVD and a sound meter, but I am sure you could tell the differences immediately. Just like SVS we offer a completely no risk money back guarantee with no restocking fees on that unit. Like Ed said SVS has set the bar on the $400 category.
     
  10. Himanshu_S

    Himanshu_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Allright. I returned the KSW-12 to best buy. Now that I don't have a sub...I'm thinking if it's worth to buy 20-39 PCi instead of the PB10. So many choices!! I was trying to compare the performance charts for the two subs but SVS has different comparison. box subs have SPL vs Freq. with dB in positive ratings while PCi series have negative dB ratings. How is one suppose to compare the two subs with this information? Is 20-39 PCi an overkill? Thanks again for the replies.
    - Himanshu

    BTW, off topic but I just tried the monster component cables($80.00) vs. the cable that came with DVD player. There was no difference whatsoever. Monster=marketing hype. Now I truly believe that statement. Just my 2 cents...you can have your own opinion [​IMG]
     
  11. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Don't worry about the relative SPL on the SVS graphs for those two subs. The PB10-ISD and the 20-39PCi will exhibit damn near identical frequeny response in-room for a given location.

    The 20-39PCi will simply be able to play a bit (maybe 3 dB) louder at max volume. This advantage would only be realized by the user if you were pushing the PB10-ISD to its limits and still wanted more volume/power.
     
  12. Mort Corey

    Mort Corey Supporting Actor

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    Now that you've started looking at the PCi 20-39 your next step is going to be thinking "hmmm, maybe I should look at the PC+ for just a few dollars more" [​IMG] If you let those thoughts rattle around in your head for a couple of days then it'll be "aw heck, go big or go home" and it's the PC Ultra sitting in your theater room. [​IMG]

    Mort (been there, done that, starting with an older Klipsch SW10)
     
  13. Dr. Anthony Rosalia

    Dr. Anthony Rosalia Stunt Coordinator

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    The difference between the 20-39 PCI and the PC+ are BIG. They have different woofers and different amps that bump up the output from 320 to 525 watts plus has the ability to tune the sub way down to 12 Hz. Have you ever felt 12 Hz from a sub? [​IMG] WOW! Remember that 525 watts is RMS NOT peak like some rate their subs. You push probably 1000 watts peak into that thing if my calulations are correct. This is real power, grounds for divorse power [​IMG] hehe. They are nowhere near the same subs. The PC+ is by far the best bang for the buck and a big notch in the belt of SVS in my eyes.

    Sorry about the exuberence but I just love these subs.[​IMG]
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Hello and welcome to "Bass Heads Anonymous" I am Anthony your host.
    Any new members please step up to the podium and tell us your story.


    "Hi my name Himanshu and it all started when I was looking for a PB10-ISD...." lol [​IMG]
     
  14. lloydMon

    lloydMon Extra

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    My KSW-10 blew an amp. $125 and 6 months later, it blew another. It was replaced with a 20-39 PCi.

    Best move I ever made.
     
  15. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    quote:

    They have different woofers and different amps that bump up the output from 320 to 525 watts plus has the ability to tune the sub way down to 12 Hz. Have you ever felt 12 Hz from a sub? [​IMG] WOW!
    __________________________________________________ ______

    Wow! indeed!... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS B4-Plus twins and 16-46 octet bassaholic [​IMG] ..."
     
  16. Dr. Anthony Rosalia

    Dr. Anthony Rosalia Stunt Coordinator

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    Preach on my fellow brother Bass Head!! Tell me of the evils of the driver and the electrons!! [​IMG] [​IMG] LET IT OUT AND BE CLEANSED IN THE VIBRATIONS!!!! Hehehe.

    Uh this is where we pass around the collection plate for all those have-nots this holiday season who YEARN for the bass....can I get a $20 and an AMEN? Hehe.

    HALLELUJAH!!
     
  17. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    It's the woofer that makes the biggest difference. The Plus will offer another 2 dB in clean (i.e., distortion limited) output above 30 Hz. Below 30 Hz, the dB-12 driver starts to shine and will exhibit about 5 dB more clean output.

    I don't know what their differences are in dynamic output, though. I'd guess the PC+ would hold a 2-3 dB edge in this arena too.
     
  18. Dr. Anthony Rosalia

    Dr. Anthony Rosalia Stunt Coordinator

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    Do you mean with or without the bass plug in place? Ron said it practically doubled the output in the lower frequencies but never told me if that was tuned but I assumed it was. Also, how much of a hit does the plug take off of the upper frequency range when lowered with the plugs? Have you ever measured this? Thanks [​IMG]
     
  19. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    There is a difference between the distortion limited output figures and the maximum dynamic output limit.

    A 6 dB increase at the same distortion limit represents a doubling of the clean output capability at the frequency in question.

    At two meters ground plane, the two subs might measure out something like this (numbers are for illustrative purposes only):

    Max output on short term sweep: PC+: 109 dB; PCi: 107 dB
    Max output at 20 Hz with 10% distortion: PC+: 101 dB; PCi: 96 dB
    Max output at 40 Hz with 10% distortion: PC+ 107 dB; PCi: 105 dB

    So below 30 Hz, the PC+ woofer can play another 5 dB louder than the PCi woofer before it hits the same distortion level. That's what Ron means when he says the PC+ practically doubles the clean output of the PCi down deep (which is true). This will be quite noticeable at higher volumes, as anyone who has compared the two will attest.
     
  20. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Plugging a port knocks about 2-2.5 dB off the upper frequency range in exchange for the deeper extension. The PB12-Ultra/2 review in my signature block shows this well. The first set of indoor FR curves shows the response in each state of tune. The second set of curves reflects the sub pre/pro level boosted 2 dB (for the 20 Hz tune) and 4 dB (for the 16 Hz tune). The loss in the 16 Hz tune might actually be a little closer to 5 dB compared to the 25 Hz level.

    As a rule of thumb, I advise a 2-2.5 dB boost in the sub pre/pro level each time a port is plugged and the tune is lowered. This is much easier than recalibrating. You should only have to calibrate once for the native tune, and then just bump the sub level accordingly if you try the deeper states of tune.

    You can see how the sub will lose headroom and max output capability in exchange for the deeper extension. Just to restore the mid-bass level in the 12 Hz tune to that of the 20 Hz tune, you need to boost the sub level 4-5 dB. That's chewing up amp and woofer capability that would otherwise go toward an increase in sound pressure level in the higher states of tune. So clearly the sub isn't operating optimally in the 12 Hz tune with respect to max output, but it can surely troll deeper than sin at more moderate playback levels.

    With the variable tune subs SVS gives you three choices and each progressively deeper tune sacrifices a bit of maximum output for even deeper extension.
     

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