SVS PB1-ISD or Outlaw LFM-1?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Greg Labate, Sep 15, 2004.

  1. Greg Labate

    Greg Labate Stunt Coordinator

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    Which sub do you recommend?

    I just ordered Swan Diva 2.1, C-3, and R-3s. The room is 14x14 with 10 foot ceilings and no left wall. I will primarily use this for movies. I don't need to rattle the windows, but I do like a nice, clean, low rumble when watching films.

    I've narrowed it down to SVS PB1-ISD ($652) or Outlaw LFM-1 ($636).

    Any suggestions between these two?

    Or due to the size of the room, do you think I only need a 10" sub like HSU-STF2 or the new SVS PB10-ISD (both on back order for 8 weeks, but $200 less).
     
  2. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    If you are lacking a wall, you have to take the next room into account when calculating the volume in which your sub will be working. In that case, a smaller sub might (stress on might) not meet your needs.
     
  3. William_Gravem

    William_Gravem Stunt Coordinator

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    There's a guy here named Edward J M. He reviews subs and in his signature he has links to 4 of his reviews. The first one is a comparason between the SVS PB1 ISD and the HSU STF-3. I believe the HSU STF-3 is VERY similar to the HSU... in fact Ed actually called it a clone in thread titled 20-25 HZ that I posted about a week ago.

    I suggest reading this review.
     
  4. William_Gravem

    William_Gravem Stunt Coordinator

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    that doesn't make sense. (actually, to be totally anal, that makes complete sense logically, but it contains absolutely no information.) My bad. :b

    I meant to write "I believe the HSU STF-3 is VERY similar to the Outlaw LFM-1".
     
  5. mark alan

    mark alan Supporting Actor

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    I have the PB1 in a 2600 cubic foot room (no openings), and I definitely wouldn't want to go smaller
     
  6. Pete_M3

    Pete_M3 Agent

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    The Outlaw LFM-1 is a Hsu design based on Outlaw's criteria, which I believe favored output over deep extension. So it differs slightly than the Hsu STF-3, which is tuned for deep extension instead of max output. Both are good subs, depends how you want yours tuned. And the PB1-ISD is a good one too, so it's hard to go wrong with any of these.
     
  7. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    By all appearances, the Hsu STF-3 and the Outlaw LFM-1 both use the same enclosure size (from an internal volume standpoint), port configuration, vent length, woofer, and amplifier. The only differences are cosmetic.

    I would expect them to be virtual performance clones. Both are tuned to 25 Hz, and will have strong output at this frequency and above. Expect performance/output to trail off quickly below 25 Hz.

    Tom Nousaine recently reviewed the LFM-1 (among others) over at S&V, and his usual (excellent) objective data is located at his "In The Lab" .pdf hotlink.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  8. Pete_M3

    Pete_M3 Agent

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    Edward, I thought the STF-3 had only one port, facing the rear? (I could certainly be wrong). I do know the LFM has two ports, facing down.

    [edit] my bad. STF-3 does have two ports, facing the rear. (I was thinking of the VTF-2 and STF-2, which do have 2 and 1 ports, respectively, and are, when used with all ports open, tuned for max output and max extension respectively). I understand that the original STF-3 was tuned for max extension, but the design has been changed.
     
  9. Pete_M3

    Pete_M3 Agent

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    Great article on the LFM-1 and competing subs

    http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...ber=1&preview=

    Looking at the lab charts though, it seems like the PSB SubSonic 6i is the best of the bunch, playing louder at 20 Hz than any of the others (93.8 dB v. 83 dB for the LFM-1), the best bandwidth uniformity of 98% (LFM-1 had a respectable 95%), and widest useful frequency reponse from 30 to 118 Hz (+/- 2.5 dB) (LFM-1 was 30-73 Hz (+/- 2.0 dB)).

    You have to pay more though, the SubSonic 6i lists at $699 (DMC Electronics claims to have blems for much less, but their return policy is not friendly). In addition, you have to like the look of the two big ports and a fabric grill on the front of the unit, rather than the clean lines of the LFM-1.

    With a small child whose main play area is in the same room as my system, the LFM-1, with the drivers and ports facing the floor, looks to be the most "kid-proof." I've read stories about subs sounding rough, and the owner finds a toy car inside the sub that his kid dropped into the port.
     
  10. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Yes, the SubSonic 6i was an eyebrow raiser to be sure. That's a really outstanding THD performance at 20 Hz.

    Too bad Tom didn't also show the FR curve, instead of just posting the +/- limits. I wonder how deep the 6i actually goes in-room. The capability of playing clean/loud at 20 Hz won't be fully realized by the listener if the frequency response is down 10 dB (or w/e) by that point.

    They probably use a high quality woofer and a deeper tune point (to limit excursion at 20 Hz). That combo would explain its excellent 20 Hz THD performance. However, with such a small enclosure the efficiency at/near the tune point is low, explaining the roll-off below 30 Hz. This woofer would probably perform very well in a larger enclosure, and the 6i in its current form would probably benefit greatly from some judicious application of EQ below 30 Hz to better exploit its output potential at 20 Hz.

    I agree, the LFM-1 is about as kid proof as it gets, with both the woofers and the ports firing down.
     
  11. Kevin_Wadsworth

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    It's also too bad Tom didn't include anything from SVS or Hsu in the subwoofer review. Seems a bit odd to leave them out when they have several very competitive models in the price range of those tested.
     

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