svs or hsu subwoofer? (1 Viewer)

[AlanZ]

I was thinking that since he's in an apartment that he probably can't be blowing the windows out of the place......but if that's what he wants, then the PB12-ISD/12 would kick the crap out any of these subs.

I used to have a PCi 25(22)-31 in a room that was 18x30 with 9 foot ceilings, and it did an impressive job.

 

[steve nn]

What about PB12-ISD/2?
__________________________________________________ _

Thats a good Idea Axu and one I thought of also. Bottom line though, we've decided on the SVS/Cherry enclosure or Maple if HSU is the choice?

 

[martyTeboe]

This is exactly the type of feedback I'd hoped to hear. Thanks for putting aside the references to your other tools, and multi-orgasmic mates.
I'm in the SF Bay Area, if anyone is willing to allow me an audition.
I really liked the suggestion about the maple finish, as my KEF's are just so veneered (is that a word?), although my fronts/center will be next on the upgrade list, so I'm not married to that finish. The maple PB12-Plus is beautiful, I must say. That'd go nice with the Monitor Audio's I have my eyes and ears on...but I digress.
Thanks, boys, and keep the good ideas coming.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

There should be several Hsu owners in your area. If you visit the Hsu message board and post a request, I am sure that you will get a few responses to audition either sub.
Again, don't forget that Hsu is coming out with some patented technology in a few months, that will further the VTF3s performance by a giant step. Although as is the VTF3 MK2 is one exceptional sub designed by an audio genius!

Or if you can wait get the VTF3HO!

 

[SVS-Ron]

Marty,

Just one small admin note RE our finishes and new subs:

The PB12-Plus won't be shipping for a few more weeks (there were a few last minute tweaks to the cabinet underway this week still). Also, it is "veneered" (yes, that there's a real word, at least 'round here it is ;^) in real wood veneer, not vinyl.

Not sure about your KEF's or what you might upgrade too, but if you wanted to stick with similar finishes it's probably worth checking how they are done.

We don't have any wood-grained vinyls at SVS if it turns out the KEF's are vinyl (and if this matters to you). Depending on just how close you would like to get things, you can request a veneer "swatch" of of our new finishes and see how they match up to your mains. We should have those in-house in a couple weeks.

The pics up now on our site are color corrected and quite close to the real thing.

Hopefully "swatch" is a word too ;^)

Ron
SVS

 

[Jack Gilvey]

There are no objective ways to determine the best guitar player. Subs, unlike guitar players and Chinese food, are engineered devices. Obviously, one can "prefer" anything one wants, including "Full-screen" DVD's ,a 9500k color temperature (likely a DBT fave), lots of second-harmonic distortion (same), or MSG.


Having Dr. Hsu participate is the best possible news for those who are here to learn, a discourse between designers is far more illuminating than watching barbs being traded by the great unwashed.

 

[paul clipsel]

Jack are you saying that measured objective data is the only way to buy a subwoofer?

PC

 

[Jeff Gatie]

It is certainly the only way to objectively compare two subwoofers. It is in the subjective comparisons that the "trading barbs" scenario starts (including the "subjective" opinions on what an "objective" test result really is ).

 

[Jack Gilvey]

There are certainly other ways to buy. Finish, size, corporate philosophy, colorations, etc. I'll just say that a complete set of objective data (not just the ubiquitous "SPL") can convey much more information than most understand. This is the type of data used by the designers of these things, yet its significance is downplayed by a few (apparently extraordinarily gifted) prolific posters.

 

[martyTeboe]

Hear, hear. Philosophical and semantic arguments aside, all I have to go on is the personal opinions of the users in this and other forums. As stated in my original post, I don't want to bother with shipping 60-100 lb. devices back and forth. My goal is to take what you good people have to say about the subs on my list:

PB12-ISD
16-46pci
PB12-Plus
PB12-isd/2 or 25-31pci(not on my original list)

TN-1220 w/250w amp
VTF-3 MkII

and hopefully make a good decision considering my apartment room size (actually 15x20"), my movies to music ratio (75/25 movies/music), buy one sub and be happy with it.

I fully realize that this is an entirely subjective matter. It may turn out that I don't like the sound of the sub which I eventually choose to buy. But I really doubt that that would be the outcome. I am certain that both Hsu and SVS produce high-quality instruments, and that the competitive nature of the business in which these companies appear to thrive pushes each one further towards producing quality subs at a reasonable price. In other words, I think I'll be happy with any one of these subs listed.

Knowing but a little about acoustics, I depend upon the opinions of more seasoned Home Theater Buffs like you guys to guide me in this decision making process. I really appreciate all of your input!!!

mt

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Indeed, measured objective data is not going to be useful/understood by all, and it's sometimes easiest to put it to a vote.

 

[mikeEB]

It's not on your list but I would consider the SVS 20-39PCi. It will go almost as deep as the 16-46PCi yet hang with the 25-31PCi in the upper bass region. I have one and I am very pleased with it's performance.....movies and music.

M i k e

 

[Arthur S]

martyTeboe

Since you have an upper limit of $1,000 I wanted to mention that a while ago, HSU had a sale with the TN1220 and the 500 watt amp going for $1,000. I don't remember if shipping was included in that price. The sale expired but when I called HSU, they were very willing to sell the 1220 and 500 watt amp for the $1,000 price.

In other words, if you decide on a TN1220, getting one with the 500 watt amp for $1,000 versus $850 for one with the 250 watt amp is well worth considering. You would, of course, have to contact HSU and ask if the special pricing is still available.

The TN1220 is still a great sub after all these years with a frequency response that is ruler flat to 18 Hz when used with either the HSU 250 or 500 watt amp.

 

[AlanZ]

Marty:

Unless you are wanting to spend the whole 1k, take MikeEB's advice if you don't take mine. Unless you are wanting to listen at insane levels and/or your room opens up into a larger space, the 25-31 or 20-39 PCi will be more than satisfying. Save yourself $400 and spend at least half on your girl

 

[martyTeboe]

This is an intriguing conversation, one that is bringing up lots of questions for me. I appreciate that you guys aren't making me feel silly for not knowing a lot about the matter.

At this point, I think I'd like to go with a cylinder style sub, because I like the small footprint, and to be honest I see a lot of high-end users choose that particular config. That must mean something, right?

My question now...
25-31PCi is 32.5" tall, and 16" in dia - 25 Hz tuning point
16-46PCi is 46" tall, and 16" dia - 16 Hz tuning point
20-39PCi is 39" tall, 16" in dia -20 Hz tuning point

The varying heighth of these units is apparently what determines the tuning point, is that correct? May I ask for an explanation of what the tuning point means, exactly, and how do the dimensions of the room determine which tuning point is best for that situation?

Are the cylindrical units considered to be more 'musical'? I'm not listening to rap, just lots of movies, and all types of music at moderate levels. I want the bass to fill the room, sound like a bass guitar amp (for rock music, of course), and not necessarily knock the fillings out of my teeth. I suppose I'm looking for accuracy, if I can use that word without really knowing what it means, in this context.

 

[AlanZ]

Marty:

I can answer some of that, but I"ll leave the rest to those who are better-versed on the physics of the subs.

In addition to the cylinders having a smaller footprint,you also get a little more bang for the buck because the materials required for that particular design are less expensive than what SVS would have to factor in to construct a box design. They are also lighter and easier to move around the room, which helps when you are trying to determine proper placement. They are also quite the conversation piece

Most of us who are primarily HT prefer the short one (25-31) or the middle one (20-39) because they give up less in terms of output than the tall one does. The trade-off is that they don't play quite as low as the tall one, but for HT a lot of us prefer greater impact to the ability to play a little lower.

When I first ordered an SVS, Tom V. suggested I go with the 25-31 but have it tuned to 22hz. That ended up being the perfect solution for me at the time. That was in an 18x30' room. I have also owned the 20-39, but my preference was the shorty It's just a great little sub.

 

[Axu R]

(That extra 1,5" comes from the baseplate, and applies to whole PCi-line*) I'd definitely go with either 25 or 20, 16 I can do with my PB10. :b


* not really sure about that after all

 

[paul clipsel]

Forgetting the very obvious choices that a buyer can use to make his decision like size, finish and price. Its my understanding from what you are saying 'you simply don't understand the numbers', but if you did thats all you would need to be able to choose a subwoofer.

That to me means you are saying with all things being equal:
If a complete set of objective data (not just the more often quoted ubiquitous "SPL") is put in front of such 'understanding people', that they don't have to listen because the best sounding purchase decision is all within the numbers.

Now call me whatever you like but after listening to many subwoofers I have never seen data presented that is able to define how a subwoofer will sound in your room. To me that data is either hiding or has not been defined. Perhaps its the secret squirrels club membership fees that need paying first.

Further if such data tells you this much about sound then someone could take something like my VTF-3 MK2 look at the measured data and present me with an alternate subwoofer that sounded the same to me. As silly as this probably sounds to you I find listening the best and most accurate test to sort out what sounds better. YMMV


PC

 

[Robb Roy]

Paul,

I’m going to open with admitting a bias toward SVS subwoofers. In fact, I’ve recently begun some contract work for them on various computer and programming-related projects, so I have a financial interest in their success (I’m not cheap and I want the checks to not bounce).

I think we can both agree Hsu subwoofers sound better than the vast majority of similarly-priced (and higher-priced) brick and mortar subwoofers out there. I’ll bet dimes to dollars the Hsu subs also *measure* better than those subs with objective data. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

As to the room, no one can predict with 100% accuracy how a subwoofer will perform in a given room (put enough pillows and bean bag chairs in a room and you will change how a subwoofer performs, and that’s not getting into listening and subwoofer locations in that room). Based on this logic, however, one would need to audition every last subwoofer on the planet in their homes, in every possible location, to make a purchase decision. This leaves the objective data, which Hsu *and* SVS excel at.

Sure there is more than objective acoustical data for the potential customer to consider (cherry wood carries a lot of weight with my wife, for instance). If a 10” x 10” cube is a non-negotiable must, SVS and Hsu are not contenders. The same is true if $150 is the maximum budget, or granite construction, or has to be offered by their buddy down at the big box store…

Also not covered in the objective acoustical data quoted by manufacturers is a preference for peaks at certain frequencies (what if someone likes a 12 dB hump at 40-50 Hz while another likes a 15 dB hump at 50-60 Hz?) or distortion levels above 25% at 90 dB in their room (we’re back to not being able to predict accurately when that will occur in any given room with 100% accuracy).

A consumer’s best bet is to go by objective data and try it out. Both Hsu and SVS offer good in-home trials, and if one doesn’t work, they can send it back and try the other. Since both measure so well, odds are the only way someone won’t be happy with one is if it isn’t enough sub for them, or because they like some anomaly neither has been able to measure and/or build for (meaning they won’t like *either sub). The smart thing for a consumer to do is to go with the product that objectively measures the best and change course from there if it doesn’t work for them.

-Robb

 

[Craig Chase]

Robb ... Working as a contractor for SVS ... CONGRATS !!! ...