SVS--Not that impressed yet (1 Viewer)

[Kenny Booth]

Steve, you're "not particularly enamored of the language and writing style of me" Hell man I'm not writing a love letter.

I prefer Will's writing style better, at least he's up front with his insults.

SVS Ron and I will solve any issues I have with the sub.

Thanks to all who tried to help

 

[Bill Lucas]

Just what I want, patio stones leaning against the walls in my HT. NOT!!
BTW, there is no such animal as a "standing wave". There are room resonances and humps and nulls but nary a wave that stands still. Regards.

 

[Matt Meyer]

Ah...another good thread gone bad. These always turn into pissing matchs.

Matt

 

[Arron H]

I suspect that part of the reason is because The Outlaws have once again delayed shipment of the Outlaw 950 preamp, so I haven't been able to hook up the SVS and actually use it. I sit in front of it expectantly, like the apes in front of the black monolith in "2001." I even scratch a flea and grunt from time to time.

Very funny prose except the part about the delayed shipment. Hang in there, Aldo

 

[Joe Meissner]

I dont own a svs sub nor have i listened to one yet. but i talked my co-worker who was in the market for a new sub, into ordering one. after reading the reviews he ended up ordering the 20-39pci. it arrived on monday of this week. when i called him to see how it sounded he said it wasnt what he expected. his freinds paradigm 12 incher sounded alot better he said. well i told him to try moving it in his room and keep calibrating. he doesnt have a meter so this is all by ear and feel. well it ended up that he had it in the right corner but his lfe channel was set at +10 because it was the only way his old sub would sound decent. so he set it at -4 and turned the gain up on the 20-39 and now he is very impressed. i let him borrow jp3 and he said the bass during the t-rex and spino fight knocked his beer off the coaster and spilled it on the coffee table. He says "this think hits like a great car sub does"

so i say keep calibrating and I think you'll be impressed too..

please don't count all the miss spelled words

thanks

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Awhile back a couple similar threads popped up:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=54529
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=44907
I will offer the same critique again that I offered then:

If you mean it shoudl be louder than your old sub-- if it is properly calibrated it shouldn't necessarily be any louder than any other sub- rather cleaner, lower and flatter.
Most people, especially people who have more experience with car audio, associate bass with being "BIG"- which usually translates to throaty, boomy and awful messy. I personally prefer really tight gutteral low-- and that is the reason people (like me) buy SVS.
What I find funny is that some of you have calibrated with the same tones, and the same target levels- and them complain the new subs aren't louder. They shouldn't be louder.
I don't know what the SVS sale pitch is for the CS Ultra series is, but if you calibrate to the same level, it shouldn't be "louder"! That's the whole point of a calibration in the first place. These subs probably are able to get louder earlier, allowing more clean headroom ... but rememeber you JUST CALIBRATED TO THE SAME LEVEL. You shouldn't find it necessarily "louder".
A better sub won't be "louder" per se, especially if you calibrate... it should offer a better freq coverage and maybe cleaner loud playback.
Sometimes one sub seems louder than another one because it's getting a better coverage of LOW freq; sometimes it seems louder because it is boomy/excessive in certain freq. A sense of "louder" is not always a better result.
If you're upgrading from an older SVS unit- you probably won't find wider freq response with the new subs- I'd guess maybe just a bit flatter and better clean output (more headroom, more level before bottoming out).
Again, It shouldn't be "louder" - especially if you're switching from another SVS product. The new subs should be able to be hit harder before exploding, and might offer a little more even response. That's it.
My older SVS is great- but I know I can't watch THE IRON GIANT at full ref, the sub will bottom out (single sub, smallest unit SVS offers). My impulse to replace it would be the desire to have more headroom. This won't make any movie I watch LOUDER, but would prevent me from running out of sub headroom...

Just my 2 cents, maybe less with inflation.
-V
PS: Anyone baffled about freq response and how flat response or not flat response effects calibration and your perception of bass might benefit from a quick read of the posts I made here on the topic:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...866#post429866

 

[Martice]

As they say in the two channel threads " the better the equality of the hardware and the signal, the lower you actually play it". SVS was my first intro into "quality bass" and unless you really are after turning the sub up to where it dominates the music or movies, a properly calibrated sub in a properly sized room will sound right instead of heavy or loud. It wil go deep when the source material requires it but it will be light on it's feet when it time to be light on it's feet and most importantly it will leave as fast as it came with no obvious overhang from a demanding bass passage.

I've experienced this first with a dual SVS 2531 setup that I've had a chance to demo in the past and continue to experience quality bass today although I don't own a SVS sub. I tip my hat to Tom & Ron for making such a great product that opened my eyes to the world of quality bass.

Vince:

How's that DIY coming along?

 

[Richard Greene]

To Bill Lucas:
Patio stones painted the same color as the wall are not that
visible when on the floor leaning against a wall.
Better than listening to a rattling wall!
I don't know what you have against the commonly used term
"standing waves" . Your terms "humps" and "nulls" really should be "nodes" and "antinodes" (a)... but more people would understand "humps" and "nulls" so using those terms is a better way to communicate.
(a)
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...funhar.html#c3

 

[Bill Lucas]

Richard,
There was no offense intended but the purpose of these forums is to inform and the use of incorrect terms does nothing to inform whether it is a commonly used term or not. Humps (okay "peaks") and nulls (voids) is an accurate description. Standing waves is not.
I do custom installations for a living, hence the patio stone humor. I doubt many of my clients in their $$$$ home theaters want stones leaning against the wall, even if they have been painted to match. I prefer to build the wall correctly and if it wasn't built correctly I tear it out and do it right. Regards.

 

[Barry Barnes]

Okay. Now we are finally getting somewhere!
I am glad Vince took the time to so eloquently explain what has been a pet peeve of mine for awhile now. This whole thing about "what sub goes louder" and relying so heavily on Frequency charts that show MAX outputs at given frequencies and using those to "prove" one sub is better than another. While being an excellent tool for evaluation and an easy way to see how flat a given sub is across it's frequency range, it's not the end all and be all in evaluating how good a sub actually sounds. None of those max levels are relevant unless you listen at levels that exceed them. In other words, it's nice to know my Sub is capable of 115 dB at 30 Hz, but quite frankly I won't ever need that. What's more important is how low can it go without any severe drop offs in volume and how much distortion is there. That's what I look for in those ratings.
Some subs at the same volume level do produce more low energy bass that can be FELT more than other subs. These are perceived to be "louder" when in fact they are simply flatter (read louder) at a lower frequency. They seem louder because you are really hearing your shirt collars flapping in the breeze they create.
THIS is where one sub can kick the crap out of another. Many subs while being rated down to very low frequencies, don't actually play flat to that spec. Many will show an extreme drop off there. That's where flatness of response is more important. Some subs also distort greatly just below their given parameters. Still no guarantee that your listening environment won't negate some of this, but usually a decent EQ can make up for those differences provided decent placement can be achieved.
Lastly, a subwoofer is still a speaker. Not all speakers are created equal. If they all sounded the same, you would simply buy based on lab tests. I always recommend people unplug their mains and listen to the subs by themselves while playing some familiar music that has some good Bass guitar in it. This will instantly tell you if you have a "musical" sub or simply a speaker that plays Bass.
The dead giveaway of a crappy sub is that all too common "one note" boominess that I hear on many of the low end "brick and mortar" subs. Velodyne makes a particularly horrible low end model that Circuit City sells. It really must kill the engineers at Velodyne to have to put out such a piece of junk in order to try and compete in a given "price range". I would think it would go totally against their grain, since that company is capable of making such great products at their high end. Another reason why buying Internet direct is a huge plus. The owners are not forced by marketing departments to cut corners in order to fill a price niche.

 

[Will Gatlin Jr]

Steve...

Call him what you want. Troll!! Never!!

 

[Walt N]

It's only one word in what I thought was an accurate and interesting post, but anyway...

"room modes or eigentones" (from German eigen meaning "self" or "own") Acoustics. The acoustic resonances (or standing waves) in a room (or any enclosed space) caused by parallel surfaces. It is the dimensional resonance of a room, where the distance between the walls equals half the wavelength of the lowest resonant frequency (and resonates at all harmonic frequencies above it). Room modes create uneven sound distribution throughout a room, with alternating louder and quieter spots.

Rane Professional Audio Reference

 

[Ron Bartyczak]

Kenny,

I hope you get your SVSubwoofer problem worked out. Ron and Tom are the best! If they can't work it out, then IMO it just can't be worked out.

I, too, was in your position a few months back. I had just received my new SVS 16-46 CS Plus sub and the Samson S-1000 amp combo. Hooked everything up, calibrated using Video Essentials and popped in some DVDs; U-571, Titan AE, etc. Frankly, I was a bit disappointed. The bass was okay but I was expecting a lot more (just like you).

The day after my disappointment, I saw a post (on another Home Theater site) that paralleled my experience almost exactly. After reading a number of similar posts over the next few days, Tom Vodhanel suggested that it might be some type of mismatch between the receiver and the Samson amp. (Apparently, their are occasional problems matching consumer electronics with professional electronics, e.g., the output from the likes of my Yamaha receiver with the input of the Samsom amp.) Tom suggested trying the Radio Shack's RCA SA-155 mini-amp. At $60, I figured what the heck, I'll give it a try.

The difference was truly night and day. I AM talking about rattling the walls and shaking the sofa. I have to admit, I was running the sub about +7 to +8 db hot. However, I wasn't at reference level output on the receiver! Now SVS has just released their "SVS Black Box" which is supposed to "blow away" the SA-155 (at least quality-wise, there was this hum that I couldn't get rid of with the SA-155). Only a company, with such dedicated owners, would go the distance like this for their customers. They truly sweat the details, and make things right.

Now with that said, it would have been helpful if you could have posted the type of SV sub you purchased, the type of amp (if any) you are using to drive it, and the brand and model of receiver (processor) that you are using. This would have been helpful, because the problems that I have cited and the solutions given are primarily for the passive SV subs (CS, CS+ and CS-Ultra).

Best of luck with your subwoofer problem. Please let us know if you are able to diagnose the problem and what the outcome is; good or bad.

 

[David Giles]

Hey Kenny, any resolution to this yet? Please let us know how it works out.

David

 

[Ranga]

You bastards !! ..They killed Kenny!!

 

[Kenny Booth]

No resolution but I think I'm getting there. There may be an issue with the construction of my home---concrete.

You bastards ain't killed Kenny yet!

 

[David Giles]

Yeah I think I remember from a few months back that someone else had a concrete HT room, and had some problems with their bass also. Hope you figure something out.

David

 

[Nick P]

I remember the concrete discussion. I have a concrete floor in my HT and I have plenty of bass coming from my SVS'. I'm sure I am missing some tactile sensation from not being on a suspended wood floor but my couch shakes and I can "feel" the bass just fine.

 

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I know a guy with a dual CS+ setup in his wide-open unfinished basement - concrete floor, concrete walls and wooden "ceiling." When he first set it up, the bass in the basement was very subdued, even when the subs were bottoming out. But, upstairs was a whole different matter. The walls were shaking, the windows were rattling, it was literally like a small earthquake (seriously, no svs-hype exageration here). I haven't been back since to hear how it sounds now, but he did buy an spl-meter and a bfd to try and work on the problem.

 

[ColinM]

Same with me - I never knew WHAT the wife was yelling about until I set up the pod race scene and went upstairs. Down in the man-cave it's loud, deep and tight. Upstairs it shook the floors and walls like there was a pod in the living room.

Completely unreal.