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SVS is calling to me....

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Aaron E. Smith, Jul 17, 2001.

  1. Aaron E. Smith

    Aaron E. Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, after some deliberation, I have decided to purchase a highly acclaimed SVS subwoofer (or is that SV Subwoofer?). Unfortunately, I was not able to find my previous messages using the search engine, so I'll have to quickly relay some important info. Basically, I'm not sure which model I need. I'm using a Lexicon DC-1 with seven Vandersteen speakers (the fronts are Vandy 3s) and a Hsu 10" sub. All eight are powered by four Adcom GFA-555's at 200x2 WPC each. So, the SVS sub will have 200watts powering it. My room is roughly 14' x 14', but it is an open architechture design leading into two other rooms that are another 14' x 20' or so. To me, this means that the smallest sub is really out--I don't think it would be better than my current Hsu, at least not appreciably so. That leaves the two larger models, I believe the 16-39cs and the 20-39cs. Could anyone give me some ideas what are the practical differences between the two? Which would be best for my system?
    If it makes a difference, I have the Lexicon set at an 80Hz crossover. Ideally, I'd like it at 60Hz, but the Lexicon doesn't have that setting and 40Hz was too low (allowed me to bust a woofer once, my bad.... [​IMG] ).
    Also, feel free to ask more questions if I haven't provided enough info.
    ------------------
    - Aaron
    "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
    -Emo Phillips
     
  2. Aaron E. Smith

    Aaron E. Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Let me bump this up and clarify my question: basically, should I get the sub tuned to 16 or 20 Hz? What are the main differences I can expect with either of these in my system or in my room?
    Thanks!
    ------------------
    - Aaron
    "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
    -Emo Phillips
     
  3. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Aaron,
    With over 6000 cu-ft of room area to fill,I'm not sure a single passive subwoofer of any type with 200w is going to live up to the rest of your system.
    You're using a Lex,7 Vandy's,4 Adcoms...it just doesn't seem right to handicapp the whole thing by skimping on the woofage.With ALL the bass
     
  4. Aaron E. Smith

    Aaron E. Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Tom,
    Thank you again for another speedy and informative reply. In re: to two subs, I don't really have the room and, even more importantly, even if I had to space I don't have the money. I'm afraid that, at this point, I need to find one sub that will fit my needs (and I think the SVS will be a significant improvement over what I've been using).
    However, your other suggestion is intriguing. Could you tell me a little more about what would be involved with retuning the 16-46cs? How does that effect the extension and sensitivity (for that matter, what do those two terms mean in this instance)? Basically, I'm a tad ignorant on the meanings here and I'd like to get a clearer picture of what it is I should be going for.
    BTW, I definitely crank this system up above the -26db range, so I'm definitely listening to everything you have said! [​IMG]
    ------------------
    - Aaron
    "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
    -Emo Phillips
     
  5. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Ok, optimizing a single CS to work with 6000+ cu-ft and 200w.
    I'd go with a 16-46...and I'll build you a custom port to tune it to about 19-20hz. Compared the to stock(16hz) tuning you'll lose about 1/3 octave of extension...but you'll gain a solid 2-3dB of system sensitivity in the 20-40hz range. What I mean by this is...the retuned 16-46 will play 2-3dB louder(and stay clean)than the stock 16-46 would using a given input wattage. Or in other words...if you calibrated the stock 16-46, and them swapped in the new port...the calibration would jump about 2-3dB higher without you changing anything else(amp controls or receiver controls).
    I agree, this will make a significant improvement compared to the single 10" Hsu.
    TV
     
  6. Simon D

    Simon D Auditioning

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    Please excuse my ignorance, but if you wanted an extra 2-3dB, could you not just increase the volume of the sub?
     
  7. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

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    Simon,
    Yes, you could except TV is talking about trying to get the thing very loud- the max spl that can be squeezed out of the sub-amp combo where there is no headroom left to "increase volume of sub". As TV said before, if Aaron doesn't need to go very loud, then it doesn't matter and a single stock 16 will do the job.
     
  8. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    Aaron,
    If you need a 1 sub solution but cannot afford the CS Ultra then you may want to consider buying an external XO. That way depending on how low the Vandy's go you could drop the bass xo down to 40/50hz. That would give you some extra headroom to work with as it would lessen the workload on the SVS.
    Good to see someone else from central IL. [​IMG]
     
  9. John-D

    John-D Stunt Coordinator

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    Also look at stacking another Hsu on top of your existing one.. will be
     
  10. Aaron E. Smith

    Aaron E. Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Howdy everyone, thanks for all the replies:
    Tom V: Okeedokee, you sold me. Your idea sounds great and I'll be placing my order for an SVS in a few minutes. Thank you again for all of your help. I'll post my findings after I've had a chance to play with my new toy! [​IMG]
    Andrew: I have considered going that route, but I have thought that adding more stages between the Lexicon and the speakers might degrade the sound. Also, would an external crossover work the same as the internal variety in that it would control all of the speakers? I wouldn't have thought to. Unfortunately Lexicon's greatest weakness, IMHO, if their foolish decision to allow XO settings at 40Hz intervals. I think that my system would really be perfect at the 60Hz range, but my only options are 40, 80, and 120.
    Here's a question to anyone in the know (maybe the start of a new thread actually): Can Lexicon simply change that in the software settings and make it available in the next software upgrade?
    John D: I would think that I would need another channel even if I chose to stack the subs. Since I'm way too anal for my own good, that would mean finding another Adcom GFA-555 and getting another sub like the one I had (actually I just sold it). I figured that with all of that trouble and expense, I'd be better off with getting the SVS. Now it would be interesting to see what the performance differences would be between two 10" Hsu subs and the one SVS.
    ------------------
    - Aaron
    "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
    -Emo Phillips
     
  11. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    Aaron,
    There are various external XO controls out there and Paradigms X-30 is quite popular. Specs are here :http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/HighPassSWControlUnits/ControlUnit_Specs.htm
     
  12. DieterM

    DieterM Auditioning

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    Tom I hope this is the right place for this:
    I have purchased one of your 20-39CS subs and am very happy with it except for the fact that it regularly bottoms out (I think that's what it is called when the thing makes a loud "RRAPPP" when high volume bass happens.)
    I have a large room (6000 cu ft +) and am driving the sub with an old Carver Receiver.
    I suspect that my problem is that the 12" driver is trying to do too much. I have to keep the receiver at -10 to -15 db to avoid this but I would like to listen to my DVD's & Classical Music at reference levels. I find myself having to preview the pieces before letting others listen to make sure it doesn't happen.
    As examples I've noticed that this occurs with the Toy Story II disk at -11 or greater levels and with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra's 1812 Overture (a great demo CD with the blaring cannons!!!) at -12 or greater levels.
    I don't think buying a second CS is a viable answer due to spousal acceptance (she's taken the first one OK but I don't think she'd deal with a second.)
    I wonder if I should have bought the 24-31CS or if I should use a larger amp. (I would rather have more volume capacity than the lowest bass.) Can you provide a port that would give 24-31CS characteristics on the 20-39? What are the compromises involved? And how hard is it to install these modified ports?
    Besides this problem, I love the sonic characteristics of my new sub!
    Thanks for the help.
    -- Dieter
     
  13. Gary Rhine

    Gary Rhine Stunt Coordinator

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  14. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    >>And increase the workload on the speakers. Which would handle the 40/50Hz to 80Hz range better? I vote for the SVS.
     
  15. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>Please excuse my ignorance, but if you wanted an extra 2-3dB, could you not just increase the volume of the sub?>>Also look at stacking another Hsu on top of your existing one.. will be Tom V: Okeedokee, you sold me. Your idea sounds great and I'll be placing my order for an SVS in a few minutes. Thank you again for all of your help. I'll post my findings after I've had a chance to play with my new toy! >Andrew: I have considered going that route, but I have thought that adding more stages between the Lexicon and the speakers might degrade the sound. Also, would an external crossover work the same as the internal variety in that it would control all of the speakers? I wouldn't have thought to. Unfortunately Lexicon's greatest weakness, IMHO, if their foolish decision to allow XO settings at 40Hz intervals. I think that my system would really be perfect at the 60Hz range, but my only options are 40, 80, and 120.>Here's a question to anyone in the know (maybe the start of a new thread actually): Can Lexicon simply change that in the software settings and make it available in the next software upgrade?
     
  16. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>I have purchased one of your 20-39CS subs and am very happy with it except for the fact that it regularly bottoms out (I think that's what it is called when the thing makes a loud "RRAPPP" when high volume bass happens.)>I suspect that my problem is that the 12" driver is trying to do too much. I have to keep the receiver at -10 to -15 db to avoid this but I would like to listen to my DVD's & Classical Music at reference levels. I find myself having to preview the pieces before letting others listen to make sure it doesn't happen.>As examples I've noticed that this occurs with the Toy Story II disk at -11 or greater levels and with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra's 1812 Overture (a great demo CD with the blaring cannons!!!) at -12 or greater levels.>>I wonder if I should have bought the 24-31CS or if I should use a larger amp. (I would rather have more volume capacity than the lowest bass.) Can you provide a port that would give 24-31CS characteristics on the 20-39? What are the compromises involved? And how hard is it to install these modified ports?
     
  17. Aaron E. Smith

    Aaron E. Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Quote:
    >>>Tom V: Okeedokee, you sold me. Your idea sounds great and I'll be placing my order for an SVS in a few minutes. Thank you again for all of your help. I'll post my findings after I've had a chance to play with my new toy!
     
  18. Aaron E. Smith

    Aaron E. Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Andrew, thanks for the link and the suggestion. I'll have to look into doing the XO thing at some point. Hope to 'hear' your demos soon! [​IMG]
    ------------------
    - Aaron
    "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
    -Emo Phillips
     
  19. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    Aaron,
    Another option depending on your DIY skills is a kit from Marchand(sp?). Someone mentioned them to me and they do sell pre-made XO's that look pretty good. The price was out of my range but it's pretty reasonable for the kit if you are up for the soldering.
    I'll edit this with the web-site when I can find it.
    On a different topic do you know the name of the other "high" end dealer in Champaign? Not Good Vibes, Glen Poor's or Chanmpaign Audio but the "newer" one. I think the employee's are ex good vibes. I've been there once and can't remember the bloody name. :
     
  20. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Hi Tom,
    How difficult is it to switch the ports? I seem to recall reading that someone else had switched the ports and it wasn't too involved (I'm reasonably handy, but I don't like to mess around with new equipment if there is a chance I can screw something up).
     

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