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Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031
Hi John:

Long time; glad to see you back posting again.

Test rigs run the gamut from mild to wild. You might want to solicit the opinions of Tom Vodhanel and Mark Seaton, who have experience with several of the different test rigs and software on the market.

Since you are interested in the true in-room FR, you will want to include room effects in the sweep. That eliminates the need for MLS (maximum length sequence) software. That doesn't mean you can't use MLS software for measuring the true in-room response (just widen the gate to a few hundred milliseconds); it just means you don't need the capability to alter the sampling time and window-out the room reflections.

TrueRTA is gated, but the gate is definitely long enough to allow room acoustics to fully develop. If I want to determine the quasi-anechoic response of a speaker or subwoofer, I can always test it outside at 2 meters.

Craig bought the ETF software to approximate the quasi-anechoic FR of loudspeakers without having to resort to outdoor measurements. The filter output is simply truncated before the unwanted room reflections arrive. The penalty is that the sample time is reduced, and the frequency resolution is worse. Typically the derived frequency response is not valid below a few hundred Hz, and Craig understands that limitation.

Mics? The better the mic, the flatter response, the lower the THD, and the more SPL it can tolerate. Any mic (and its pre-amp or phantom power source) should be professionally calibrated against a known standard. Most software programs accept mic correction factors. Brands? Again, check with Tom and Mark; I know Tom prefers LinearX, but they are costly. And Craig just dropped $500 on his mic set-up. The Behringer ECM8000 is relatively inexpensive and was quite flat out of the box (correction factors never amounted to more than 2 dB from 10-25,000 Hz). It's not a high SPL mic, though, and might start to introduce some THD into the signal over 120 dB.

If you are interested in absolute SPL (required for THD testing), then you'll need a sound level calibrator. This device generates a known SPL at a given frequency when the nose of the mic is placed into the receiver cup. The software is then calibrated to this SPL; otherwise you have no idea what SPL you are actually measuring. And using the RS SPL meter doesn't cut it as a sound level calibrator. ;)
 

Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031
Hi John:

Long time; glad to see you back posting again.

Test rigs run the gamut from mild to wild. You might want to solicit the opinions of Tom Vodhanel and Mark Seaton, who have experience with several of the different test rigs and software on the market.

Since you are interested in the true in-room FR, you will want to include room effects in the sweep. That eliminates the need for MLS (maximum length sequence) software. That doesn't mean you can't use MLS software for measuring the true in-room response (just widen the gate to a few hundred milliseconds); it just means you don't need the capability to alter the sampling time and window-out the room reflections.

TrueRTA is gated, but the gate is definitely long enough to allow room acoustics to fully develop. If I want to determine the quasi-anechoic response of a speaker or subwoofer, I can always test it outside at 2 meters.

Craig bought the ETF software to approximate the quasi-anechoic FR of loudspeakers without having to resort to outdoor measurements. The filter output is simply truncated before the unwanted room reflections arrive. The penalty is that the sample time is reduced, and the frequency resolution is worse. Typically the derived frequency response is not valid below a few hundred Hz, and Craig understands that limitation.

Mics? The better the mic, the flatter response, the lower the THD, and the more SPL it can tolerate. Any mic (and its pre-amp or phantom power source) should be professionally calibrated against a known standard. Most software programs accept mic correction factors. Brands? Again, check with Tom and Mark; I know Tom prefers LinearX, but they are costly. And Craig just dropped $500 on his mic set-up. The Behringer ECM8000 is relatively inexpensive and was quite flat out of the box (correction factors never amounted to more than 2 dB from 10-25,000 Hz). It's not a high SPL mic, though, and might start to introduce some THD into the signal over 120 dB.

If you are interested in absolute SPL (required for THD testing), then you'll need a sound level calibrator. This device generates a known SPL at a given frequency when the nose of the mic is placed into the receiver cup. The software is then calibrated to this SPL; otherwise you have no idea what SPL you are actually measuring. And using the RS SPL meter doesn't cut it as a sound level calibrator. ;)
 

Craig Chase

Gear Guru
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
1,774
Location
Pennsylvania
Real Name
Craig
JD - It is not different mics for indoor vs. outdoor testing, it was the software that was different. The ETF software can eliminate room effect (above 200 Hz in most rooms) by letting you "see" on a graph where the first resonance was after the fundamental, then "shortening" the time of your measurement to before the resonance/reflection...

In my room, that occurs at 2.4 Milliseconds, which allows an accurate, quasi anechoic measurement from 200 Hz and up...

The microphone I purchased for this was recommended by David Fabrikant (president of Ascend) for its accuracy, and its high SPL capability...

The Behringer ECM-8000, at $40, and the True RTA software with a good soundcard will work great... In fact, read Ed's review of the STF-3 and the PB1-ISD, and get exactly what he has...
 

Craig Chase

Gear Guru
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
1,774
Location
Pennsylvania
Real Name
Craig
JD - It is not different mics for indoor vs. outdoor testing, it was the software that was different. The ETF software can eliminate room effect (above 200 Hz in most rooms) by letting you "see" on a graph where the first resonance was after the fundamental, then "shortening" the time of your measurement to before the resonance/reflection...

In my room, that occurs at 2.4 Milliseconds, which allows an accurate, quasi anechoic measurement from 200 Hz and up...

The microphone I purchased for this was recommended by David Fabrikant (president of Ascend) for its accuracy, and its high SPL capability...

The Behringer ECM-8000, at $40, and the True RTA software with a good soundcard will work great... In fact, read Ed's review of the STF-3 and the PB1-ISD, and get exactly what he has...
 

John Doran

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
1,330
thanks for the prompt response, guys....

first thing i want to do is pick up a solid SPL meter...i assume the one you've used for your PB2-Ultra review, Ed, would be a good start....

what kind of stores sell something like that? and how much can i expect to be dinged for it?

thanks again.

- jd
 

John Doran

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
1,330
thanks for the prompt response, guys....

first thing i want to do is pick up a solid SPL meter...i assume the one you've used for your PB2-Ultra review, Ed, would be a good start....

what kind of stores sell something like that? and how much can i expect to be dinged for it?

thanks again.

- jd
 

Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031
John:

While the RS meter isn't "all that", it suffices for most HT applications.

Personally, I'd rather see someone invest the money (that would otherwise be spent on an expensive sound level meter) into the test rig itself.

If you will only be measuring frequency response (and not THD), you don't have to purchase the sound level calibrator (which IS fairly expensive).

TrueRTA defaults to an Audigy 2 soundcard, and it seems to provide good results in my set-up, with a very low noise floor (high S/N ratio).

Again, if you aren't measuring THD (where you need a low noise floor to distinguish the harmonics), you can skip the sound card too, because TrueRTA can automatically correct for OEM PC sound card FR anomalies.

Really, you can get away with (prices are estimates):

Behringer ECM8000: $50
Behringer UB1002 mic pre-amp: $70 (this has a VERY flat FR and low noise & THD)
TrueRTA Level 4: $100
Mic Cable: $25
Output Cable: $25
Various cable adaptors to get to 1/8" mono (sound card): $15
Mic & pre-amp calibration: $50

If you want to do THD add:

Aftermarket soundcard (Audigy 2 or equivalent): $100
Sound Level Calibrator: $250
A steep learning curve: priceless ;)
 

Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031
John:

While the RS meter isn't "all that", it suffices for most HT applications.

Personally, I'd rather see someone invest the money (that would otherwise be spent on an expensive sound level meter) into the test rig itself.

If you will only be measuring frequency response (and not THD), you don't have to purchase the sound level calibrator (which IS fairly expensive).

TrueRTA defaults to an Audigy 2 soundcard, and it seems to provide good results in my set-up, with a very low noise floor (high S/N ratio).

Again, if you aren't measuring THD (where you need a low noise floor to distinguish the harmonics), you can skip the sound card too, because TrueRTA can automatically correct for OEM PC sound card FR anomalies.

Really, you can get away with (prices are estimates):

Behringer ECM8000: $50
Behringer UB1002 mic pre-amp: $70 (this has a VERY flat FR and low noise & THD)
TrueRTA Level 4: $100
Mic Cable: $25
Output Cable: $25
Various cable adaptors to get to 1/8" mono (sound card): $15
Mic & pre-amp calibration: $50

If you want to do THD add:

Aftermarket soundcard (Audigy 2 or equivalent): $100
Sound Level Calibrator: $250
A steep learning curve: priceless ;)
 

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